jorats said:
I decided to start reading up on the raw food. A few sites keep saying "do the research on your animal before doing raw diet". What kind of research should I be doing, how do I know what's best for my dog, both my dogs which are completely different breeds. One is a super active medium breed dog while the other is a small house dog. (but kept fairly active)
One site which is clearly against the raw did say that dogs are not as close to wolves as once suspected, dogs have been fed a cooked diet for thousands of years, dogs with compromised immune system should not be exposed to the harmful bacteria found in raw. The raw food from supermarkets are absolutely not the same as what the wolves eat... and so on.
This is from one link already listed above: http://www.rawdietfordogs.net/ The article is against feeding raw.
I recommend anyone considering a raw diet for their pets not only research the diets themselves, but also the biology of the animal in question.
I guess I skimmed that one site a little too quickly. :giggle:
As for it saying dogs are not as close to wolves as once thought shows a lack of understanding of basic biology. Genetically, dogs are practically identical to wolves. In fact, some biologists still use the scientific name
Canis lupus familiaris to describe dogs, making them a subspecies of wolf instead of a separate species. In fact, dogs are more similar to wolves than donkeys are to horses. Donkeys and horses live in similar environments, have a similar appearance, similar nutritional needs, and can interbreed to produce infertile offspring. Dogs and wolves have all of those similarities, EXCEPT their offspring are fertile - showing a genetic closeness not present between donkeys and horses, even though donkeys and horses are in the same genus (dogs and wolves are also in the same genus:
Canis lupus and
Canis familiaris). Article goes on to claim the domestic dog can just as likely be descended from jackals or coyotes, thus we shouldn't look at the diet of wolves to feed our dogs. Well, what does the author think jackals and coyotes are feasting on? Is someone running around feeding them kibble from a bag or wannabe "meat" from a can? Or are these jackals and coyotes going to the grocery stores themselves to buy kibble and canned?
As far as saying a dog can't eat raw meat because it has eaten cooked meals for thousands of years - what dogs are they looking at? The pets people are keeping in their homes, or the feral dogs wandering streets? Who is cooking for the feral dogs? If feral dogs are living off raw food and rotting garbage (not to mention the roadkill that may have been sitting on the street for days or weeks) and surviving, what makes them so different from the pets in our home? Especially considering those same feral dogs can be captured and turned into pets! Furthermore - some human cultures have eaten cooked meat for hundreds, if not thousands of years, and yet other cultures even today eat raw meat. In fact... a rare steak is practically raw! And cookie dough or cake batter may contain raw eggs. If people are able to eat raw foods, why are dogs so much more delicate that they cannot handle it? Especially considering a dog's digestive tract tends to be higher in acid (because they are carnivores - stomach acid is primarily responsible for digesting proteins, the stomach acid of a carnivore tends to be in the pH range of 1-2 while that of an herbivore is higher, at 3-4) which can help kill off harmful bacteria, and considering the dog's digestive tract is much shorter than a human's, allowing the foods to pass through quickly, possibly before harmful bacteria has a chance to even make the animal sick.
This also ignores the fact that commercial diets are not free of bacteria, including harmful strains of E. coli and Salmonella. This ignores the fact that many dogs will eat the feces of another animal, especially cats (feces are hot spots for bacteria!), an the fact many dogs will eat dead things on the street. It ignores the fact many dogs won't hesitate to jump into the garbage to consume the leftovers from a few nights ago. If a dog's digestive system is as sensitive as the article seems to be claiming, why aren't these dogs dropping dead all over the place? To think a dog's digestive system is never exposed to the bacteria found in raw meat is just, in my personal opinion, ignorant.
The article also seems to state the raw meat in a grocery store is too processed for dogs. If it is too processed for dogs, why are WE eating it? And if raw meat in a grocery store has been exposed to so many chemicals, why are WE eating it? If the raw meat in a grocery store is so processed that dogs can't have it, why is the even more processed kibble and canned food ok? Furthermore, it ignores the fact the grocery store is NOT the only source of raw food for our pets.
It is true that some dogs can be in a weakened immune state, this is why it is important to convert them slowly instead of switching cold turkey: It gives their digestive system (and whole body) a chance to adjust. I think it is equally important to provide such dogs with a good prebiotic and/or probiotic to help re-introduce the health bacteria into the digestive system. This can help a dog adjust easier, and get the digestive system off to a healthy jump start. Switching can be done in a number of ways, from mixing raw with the previously fed commercial diet and gradually decreasing the commercial, or feeding a homemade cooked diet and then gradually cooking it less and less until the dog has converted completely to raw. This isn't necessarily about bacteria (because in all likelihood the dog has probably already been exposed to bacteria - heck... if we let our dogs drink any water that's sat outside for any amount of time they are probably consuming bacteria from bird droppings!), but about the digestive health of the dog. Processed kibble tends to be higher in carbohydrates than most raw diets (depending on what diet you follow, of course - I personally follow the prey model version which does NOT include plant material as a regular part of the diet), while those raw diets tend to be high in protein and possibly fats. The digestive enzymes required to break down these different nutrients are different, but digestion also has to do with bacteria (in the intestines). A dog who has been on a processed diet may be able to produce the digestive enzymes, but may not have the health gut flora required to finish digestion. This conversion process, along with the pre- or probiotics, can help get that gut flora back on track.
On a few sites, I see that anyone feeding the BARF diet must also include supplements like fish oils. They say that twice a week you need to add an egg. Also, apparently the raw diet lacks calcium?
It also warns that feeding raw bones is a hazard as well.
Depends on the diet you are following and the bones you feed. With the prey model diet (the version I follow) supplements are not necessary. Calcium supplementation is only necessary if bones are not being fed. Bones can be fed, but there are hazards (there are hazards to anything really though...). When first introducing a dog or cat to a raw diet, you need to monitor CLOSELY to make sure they are eating it well. Some dogs may gulp their food and choke. When it comes to bones, dogs can try to swallow them whole. Dogs who have always been on a processed diet need to learn how to eat a raw diet. You might need to hold bones at first to prevent the dog from trying to swallow them whole, or crush the bones first so they don't create a choking hazard. Cats especially can be hard to convert to bones, because they aren't used to having to chomp and crush them. If you don't want to take any of the risks that may possibly come with bones, bone meal is a fine alternative (this is basically just ground up bone). Even when a dog has successfully converted and is chewing bones, there are some bones you always want to be careful about. These tend to be the larger, heavier, weight-bearing bones such as the leg bones of a cow. Dogs have been known to chip or crack teeth on these. A dog who has learned to chew on them may be fine, but others who get over-zealous may never be able to eat them. For me personally: My dogs eat raw chicken bones just fine, especially when they are already contained in the meat. They crunch them down small enough to swallow, and that's it. The only time I've had issues is when my older dog tries to gulp her food because she thinks someone else (my younger dog or the cats) is going to try to steal it from her. She's never been in danger of choking (maybe partly because I don't give her items large enough for her to choke on - knowing she has this habit), but it's just something I need to be aware of (continue to limit the size of chunks she gets). My dogs also do well chewing neck bones from veal or pork. These bones are softer than the heavy weight bearing bones, but can't be crushed the way poultry bones can, so it gives the dogs a good jaw work out (and keeps them occupied) as they gnaw it down and eat a small bit at a time.
I have been reading up on a good dog diet, the diet should be meat based but should not exclude vegetables entirely. (according to a few vets) It should never be grain based. The protein should be at least 30% protein and the fat should be 18%.
So then I decided to check out the ingredient list and percentages of the Acana dog food I feed my dogs. 33% protein, 17% fat.
The ingredients... is truly astounding, better than I'd ever eat.
There's a lot of debate about feeding plant material to dogs. I personally am on the side of "it isn't necessary" and doesn't need to be a regular part of the diet. I do not think it is necessarily harmful though, as long as it is limited (as you say, "meat based"). My dogs get vegetables and fruit on occasion as treats, but not as a regular part of their diet. Plant material does tend to contain a lot of fiber, which can be good to help clean out the digestive system and/or push food through. For a carnivore consuming whole prey, this "cleaning out" may possibly be performed primarily by the hair of the prey animal (which is consumed, though not in the same amount as meat and organ), but does not occur in our pets who are not being fed whole prey. Including the option of some fiber (such as pet grass for cats or the occasional bit of veggies for dogs) may be beneficial for that reason, though not necessarily a requirement. (Fiber found in plant material is in part is responsible for binding up nutrients, and making it harder for dogs to extract those nutrients unless the plant material was already crushed or pureed before being fed - dogs do not have the dentition needed to appropriately crush plant material, as omnivores and herbivores do. In addition, the digestion of plant material starts in the mouth for both omnivores and herbivores, with the enzymes present in saliva starting the break down process of carbohydrates. Since carnivores, like dogs and cats, don't actually chew their food, digestion starts in the stomach for them. This means they can be missing out on some of the nutrients found in plant material since that plant material doesn't start breaking down as early in the digestive process. Further more, the digestive tract of the omnivore and herbivore is longer to accomodate the slower break-down of plant material, compared to a carnivore's digestive tract which is much shorter because meat takes a lot less time to break down).
Fat is one nutrient to be careful of, especially in dogs. Some dogs cannot handle fats very well, and can actually become very sick when fed too much fat. While it is a vital part of the diet, particularly fatty cuts should be limited (this is part of the beauty of the "prey model" diet - because you are trying to piece together a whole prey item over several meals, you are not feeding the same cut every time. A particularly fatty cut might be fed in one meal, but over the next several meals leaner cuts are fed, thus overall limiting the fat intake to what would naturally be present in a whole prey item. That being said - some dogs ARE sensitive enough that even one fatty meal can be too much. There is a specific term for the health condition and for the life of me I can't remember it right now, but I don't think it is something that just happens out of the blue, there are some indicators in blood work and digestive health before it becomes a problem.)
