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lilratsy43

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2008
Messages
1,600
Location
Syracuse, NY, USA
Hello Everyone!

I'm back visiting for a bit! How many raw feeders are still here?
I've had Avery for just over a year now and he's been on raw since day 1.

I feed PMR raw. So no I do not include anything besides meat.
I find it sooo soo easy and really affordable.

Avery eats just about everything including:
Chicken
Chicken liver
Chicken necks
Chicken frames
Turkey
Turkey necks
Turkey frames
Beef
Beef liver
Tripe (but it was mixed with liver and tongue)
Pork
Pork heart
Mackeral
Venison
Rabbit

I am hoping, to continue adding more sources as I can get ahold of them. I am trying to stay away from mixes and pet food types as I like knowing where my meat is coming from.

Also I have a foster kitten that is eating purely raw as well. The switch was a little rough, but he eats it like a champ now. The only thing I hate about feed cats raw is that the food has to be thawed first. Bleck!

What do your dogs eat?
 
I'd like to try a cat or dog with raw at some point. My dog and cat eat Orijen and True North canned diets. They've both been eating this for quite some time, are older and set in their ways (not to mention the fact that they've been doing fantastically, so I've seen no reason to completely overhaul their diets on them)

I've had foster ferrets on raw and they did extremely well on it. IMO all ferrets should be on raw, as opposed to kibble. It just makes more sense, considering their natural dietary requirements. It's tough to switch them but, like you said, once they're on it, it's totally worth it!

I can't say that I've heard of PMR but from a quick google search, it seems intriguing. Here, the big one is Tollden Farms. Though, there is a fairly new company from Erin, ON that I quite like the sounds of: Bold Raw. I had a chance to meet the co-owner and, from what I can tell, she is extremely knowledgeable about canine and feline nutritional needs.
 
I feed my two dogs Acana, a Canadian company, high quality kibble. My vet is totally against the raw diet. She told me that she's had to treat too many dogs for ailments related to that diet, either bacterial or bone splinters. So I never gave it much thought. But if I had a dog with severe allergies or with the same disease my first dog had, I'd definitely give it a try.
 
I guess like anything else there are upsides, downsides, benefits and risks. The trick is looking at your lifestyle and your animal's needs and finding the right balance. Despite what a lot of companies say, raw is not the answer to all problems.

If somebody has the time and ability to safely feed a complete raw diet, more power to them. But raw is not superior to a good quality kibble (or vice versa)

*I'm mostly talking about dogs here. Cats of course need at least a wet\dry diet...a good kibble simply doesn't cut it (unless you are adding stock or water to it, to make it a mush, at least part of the time. I still think raw is better then kibble for ferrets though.
jorats said:
I feed my two dogs Acana, a Canadian company, high quality kibble.
Totally OT but which Acana do you feed? How do you like it? Like I said before, I feed Orijen (their sister brand) and I absolutely love it! The difference I saw when I switched Jade from whatever-it-was-they-gave-me-that-she-had-been-eating-in-the-shelter to Orijen was amazing! Champion really is a fantastic company! (And no, I don't work for them lol)
 
The issues related with the raw diet are when people feed improperly (except in the rare situations). Some dogs can not have raw bones of a particular size.. "gulpers" or dogs that don't sit down and actually chew smaller bones down are a problem. As for bacterial, well, if it's not from a source you'd eat yourself, then don't feed it to your dog. The same practices that we should use for dethawing and storing our own meats should be followed for feeding our dogs. Most dogs should be able to eat a raw diet safely but you have to know your dog and be aware of their habits to make a confident decision in which route to go. When I moved Tungsten on to meaty bones, I would hold on to them while he chewed them down. He's now an excellent chewer.

I've heard vets say to not feed kibble because they've seen too many dogs choke on kibble. Wet food is generally heralded as a better alternative all around but then you have the vets that say that the dogs don't get the tooth cleaning benefits of kibble (a bit of a weak argument, in my opinion). Home made cooked foods that are not properly balanced can cause as many problems as anything else. So, there is a risk no matter how you decide to feed.

I do think that the most important thing about feeding your dog is your comfort level with it. I had been raised in a "Kibble is God" family so making the move to raw was tricky for me but I had a lot of time to read up before I took Tungsten home. He was weaned on to raw so a lot of the issues with introducing raw, such as eating safely or taking to the new diet or stomach upset, were non-issues. But my life over the last two years has really changed and I've moved off the raw diet for the time being. When things settle for me, I'd like to go back to it.

That said, I had to take the chihuahuas off Orijen as it gave them the most insane gas ever, LOL. And now with Quita's kidney disease, she's been moved to Medi-Cal k/d which feels like an utter sin since I am completely against vet diets for the most part. But I feel for the time being it's a good solution while we figure out our new routines and while I can do more research about home made diets. Also, I don't want to make any radical moves until after we do another blood test to see how her BUN and creatine have changed or leveled out. So Migo and Tungsten are on high quality kibbles... whatever I can get reasonably priced. For the most part, they can eat anything. Just not Orijen!!!
 
Moon said:
That said, I had to take the chihuahuas off Orijen as it gave them the most insane gas ever, LOL.
Did you feed the 6 Fish? lol because Jade gets a little rancid on that one (and, of course, it's her favorite :roll: )
 
I had started Gypsy on the Orijen and it just didn't sit well with her. She had runny poops and she smelled so bad. Then I switched her to Acana Wild Prairie. I love that food. Her poops are lovely, not too smelly (still don't smell like roses) shiny coat and happy dog. Jasper would not touch it. So tried the small breed Acana and the little guy now begs for his food.
My cats are on a dry kibble only. Why is that not good? The dry kibble keeps their teeth clean too. Mine are on the Chicken Soup for the Cat's soul, the light one, cause my two old girls are big and one needs low protein because 2 years ago she was in complete renal failure. I did try my cats on the Orijen and again, way too rich for them, lots of puking and pooping.
 
Hehe, yeah sometimes something just doesn't 'work', for whatever reason...like anything else, nothing works for everybody.

On that note, has anybody else tried Canisource? It's one of those 'dehydrated raw' diets and it's made in Quebec (in Saint-Hyacinthe, if I remember correctly) I tried it with Jade a while back and she LOVED it (I swear, it's made of doggy-crack lol) but gave her runny poops. Other then that, she seemed to do well on it, but the ''cowpie" poops never cleared up. I figured something just wasn't working and switched her back to Orijen and her poops were back to normal. Despite the fact that it wasn't right for Jade, I still quite like the idea of it and am curious to see what others think of it...
 
Wow...just read over the Canisource website. It looks really good.
I wonder if I could use that as a treat for training. I'm not sure where I'd find this product though.
 
jorats said:
My cats are on a dry kibble only. Why is that not good? The dry kibble keeps their teeth clean too. Mine are on the Chicken Soup for the Cat's soul, the light one, cause my two old girls are big and one needs low protein because 2 years ago she was in complete renal failure. I did try my cats on the Orijen and again, way too rich for them, lots of puking and pooping.

Dry food only isn't recommended for cats. They're not drinkers by nature and the water content in dry food only isn't enough for them. My cats have dry food available all the time but I try to give them a can of wet (one can to split between the three of them) each day to sort of supplement the dry diet.

Really, unless we're talking about a food that is specifically designed to clean teeth, teeth cleaning properties of kibble are a bit of a hot button issue. There's really no substitute for brushing their teeth (though raw bones are heralded as excellent tooth cleaners). I can say Tungsten has had a huge downturn in his oral health since I moved him from raw to kibble.

I've heard that a lot of cats do really well with the Chicken Soup diets. Jo, the light formula is enough to keep your cat's kidney levels in check? I'm really nervous to move Quita to a not kidney specific diet but I really don't like the vet formulas. Does she take any meds to keep her phosphorous levels down?

As per the Orijen question: we were just on the regular formula. They used to clear out the room when they farted, it was really bad. One time we were in the car and Mike had Migo zipped up in his coat and just as he turned his face down to talk into the neck opening, Migo farted and Mike got a huge mouthful. It was hilarious.
 
jorats said:
Wow...just read over the Canisource website. It looks really good.
I wonder if I could use that as a treat for training. I'm not sure where I'd find this product though.

Oh, and about this stuff - I was given some for Tungsten and he LOVED it (that doesn't say much because, for Tungsten, if it is anything resembling dog food he's all for it). My good friend who's dog is extremely picky also loves it. I think it would make for a great treat. Be prepared, the food itself looks rather like dehydrated cat poop. Or something.
 
just wanted to comment on "raw" for ferrets and/or cats. they technically should eat whole prey being that they are obligate carnivores, just eating chicken meat or meat is not enough for them. mine do eat mainly a dry kibble diet with some wet food occassionally. they seem healthy as far as skin and coat and feces. but the usual ferrety problems strike and i dont think diet influences thatf(reminder that i feed high quality kibble not crap) it just isnt feasible to feed them raw in my house. if they swallowed their prey whole it would be different. or they lived outside.

and joanne is right about bones causing issues. not to mention ecoli and salmonella causing problems for us.
diet is a hot button issue i have fed either vet line or brand name like eukanuba for the last 20yrs with 4 different dogs so far two of them lived to be 15+, 3rd is around 13 and bailey of course is just young at 5. they do however get a little of whatever i'm eating that is healthy for them like meat, vegies, grains. ususally no more then 5% of their diet. they also are kept up to date on vaccines, well groomed and exercised. you just do what you can for your little ones and hope for the best.
 
Moon said:
jorats said:
My cats are on a dry kibble only. Why is that not good? The dry kibble keeps their teeth clean too. Mine are on the Chicken Soup for the Cat's soul, the light one, cause my two old girls are big and one needs low protein because 2 years ago she was in complete renal failure. I did try my cats on the Orijen and again, way too rich for them, lots of puking and pooping.

Dry food only isn't recommended for cats. They're not drinkers by nature and the water content in dry food only isn't enough for them. My cats have dry food available all the time but I try to give them a can of wet (one can to split between the three of them) each day to sort of supplement the dry diet.
I don't know how I missed that but Moon nailed it. It's not so much that kibble is bad but it can't be used as a stand alone. I do pretty much the same thing: he has a bowl of his kibble available at all times and in the morning he gets a third of a (7oz) can, mixed with a little warm water (both to warm it up, if it's been in the fridge and to make it go further) to make it a gravy-like consistency.

Something I do sometimes is make a pot of either chicken or fish stock, divide it up and add kibble to one portion. Let it sit until it's mushy enough to mix and tinker with it until I get that gravy-like consistency again. I would only make a few days worth at any given time but, yeah it's just 'home-made' wet food. You could do this with water too, if there are any specialized diets going on. Just anything to give them that extra moisture.
 
My dog's been on raw since he was 6 months old. He's 9 1/2 yrs now. There's no way I'd switch back to kibble as he's just thriving. My cat's been on it for I think about 2 years now and also thriving.

They both get chicken, turkey, lamb, moose, pheasant, elk, beef, buffalo, salmon, herring, sardines, sole, quail, ostrich, emu, duck, goat
There might be more that's all I can think now

We feed whole RMBs, ground meat, variety of organ meat, tripe and recreational bones. Charlie's fav probably are lamb necks and beef tripe. The cat lives for ostrich.
 
I wanted to switch my cats to raw. The boy took to it immediately like it was the best thing in the world, but my female cat won't eat anything raw, no matter what it's disguised with. I gave up and went back to wet food for simplicity.
 
theratlady said:
just wanted to comment on "raw" for ferrets and/or cats. they technically should eat whole prey being that they are obligate carnivores, just eating chicken meat or meat is not enough for them. mine do eat mainly a dry kibble diet with some wet food occassionally. they seem healthy as far as skin and coat and feces. but the usual ferrety problems strike and i dont think diet influences thatf(reminder that i feed high quality kibble not crap) it just isnt feasible to feed them raw in my house. if they swallowed their prey whole it would be different. or they lived outside.

and joanne is right about bones causing issues. not to mention ecoli and salmonella causing problems for us.
diet is a hot button issue i have fed either vet line or brand name like eukanuba for the last 20yrs with 4 different dogs so far two of them lived to be 15+, 3rd is around 13 and bailey of course is just young at 5. they do however get a little of whatever i'm eating that is healthy for them like meat, vegies, grains. ususally no more then 5% of their diet. they also are kept up to date on vaccines, well groomed and exercised. you just do what you can for your little ones and hope for the best.

When you feed PMR (Prey model raw) you do not have to feed the whole prey with cats. And personally I am not ok with feeding whole prey as I had rats for a long time.
Prey model means you model their diet to what it would be like eating an entire prey over the course of the week. I usually use liver for my organ because other organs are hard to get a hold of. Then they get some boneless meals and some bone in meals. Most of the bone in are poultry as they are much softer bones.

As far as kibble goes, Orijen and Acana are among the best brands. Eukanuba and vet line brands are among the lowest qualities of kibble.

Over vacination seems to be an issue here as well.

jorats said:
I feed my two dogs Acana, a Canadian company, high quality kibble. My vet is totally against the raw diet. She told me that she's had to treat too many dogs for ailments related to that diet, either bacterial or bone splinters. So I never gave it much thought. But if I had a dog with severe allergies or with the same disease my first dog had, I'd definitely give it a try.

As Moon said most of these issues were not from the raw diet themselves. Many times dogs get a hold of a cooked bone, those spliter, raw bones do not spliter. You also have to know thy dog. Avery can no longer have bones for receational chewing because he has actually chipped his teeth, Avery is an agressive chewer. Some dogs can enjoy marrow bones for a lifetime with no issues, Avery is not one of them. I have actually never heard of a dog having bacterial issues from a raw diet. I also do not think it is as important to feed only meat you would eat. I have bought pet grade meat in the past, Avery has had 0 issues with it. I think sadly some of it is 4-d meat so we may not go that route again. But I heard that many greyhounds (the racers) are fed a mix of 4-D meat and kibble and they do fine on it. I just don't know how I feel about 4-d meat as a total diet.

Moon said:
Dry food only isn't recommended for cats. They're not drinkers by nature and the water content in dry food only isn't enough for them. My cats have dry food available all the time but I try to give them a can of wet (one can to split between the three of them) each day to sort of supplement the dry diet.

Really, unless we're talking about a food that is specifically designed to clean teeth, teeth cleaning properties of kibble are a bit of a hot button issue. There's really no substitute for brushing their teeth (though raw bones are heralded as excellent tooth cleaners). I can say Tungsten has had a huge downturn in his oral health since I moved him from raw to kibble.

I've heard that a lot of cats do really well with the Chicken Soup diets. Jo, the light formula is enough to keep your cat's kidney levels in check? I'm really nervous to move Quita to a not kidney specific diet but I really don't like the vet formulas. Does she take any meds to keep her phosphorous levels down?

Moon I am suprized you went back to kibble. As far as teeth and pets, kibble has no dental benefits. Why do you think so many dogs and cats end up with dental disease as they age. I was under the impression that dry kibble for cats can cause kidney issues. As well as obesity. Kitten currently eats twice a day (no free feeding here) and its all from meat sources. He gets more ground meat than the dog, but mostly because its easier for him to eat. He has had pork chunks a couple of times and they take him forever to chew through, which IMO holds fantastic dental value.
 
My dogs and cats are on a raw diet, prey model version. Cats have been on it for about 6 years, older dog has been only for about 3 years (we got her about 3.5 years ago), and puppy has been on it since February (got her in January). My animals are doing fabulously. I am a firm believer in a (proper) raw diet being the best diet for dogs and cats, no processed food can come close to the results I have seen since switching my animals, and they were on high quality processed diets before the switch! Their dental health is better than any animal I have EVER had, and prior to making the big switch, my animals were on kibble! In fact... my animals' dental health is so good, my vet doesn't even recommend dental work for them. My senior cat (RIP) did need dental work, after being on kibble for 13 years of her life. At that age she looked old. She was arthritic, stopped jumping, her eyes were getting glossy, and she was starting to lose condition. After I switched her over to the raw diet, the years literally melted off her. Her eyes became clear again, she started jumping again and generally moving easier, and she regained condition. She looked so good for her age, the vets and vet technicians couldn't believe she was as old as she was, they were convinced she had to be at least 2-3 years younger! She made it to just before her 18th birthday. Seeing the change in her, I am fully convinced of the holistic benefit to raw. My current cats are about 8 or 9 years old. My vet calls them "geriatric" because that's what the books say apparently. Well, my "geriatric" cats run around like kittens on a daily basis! They have no health issues at all, all their wellness checks are clean and clear, vet has nothing but good to say about their health and condition. Same with my dogs - they are healthy and fit. They maintain good weight, neither too fat nor too thin. They are slim, trim, and muscular, the way they should be. No skin or fur issues, no allergies, dental health is great, no other issues of any kind, wellness checks are clean and clear.

The "concerns" with raw really aren't issues with the raw diet itself, as it is the ingredients of that diet, how the food is handled and stored, and the animal itself. I have had NO problems at all with my dogs OR cats and bones. I have had NO problems at all with bacterial issues. In fact... my puppy is a parvo survivor. While recovering from parvo she was on a processed diet until I could get her switched over to the raw. After parvo it was coccidia then giarrdia. She kept having relapses of these issues, was on some kind of medication for nearly a month! By that time I decided to go ahead and make the switch over to raw. Like magic...these issues cleared up and she's been clean and clear since! Today, you would never know she had any illness at all! She looks and acts like a normal healthy dog, her only "issues" are typical adolescent behavior. However I am also careful about knowing where my animals' food comes from and am careful about following good food handling procedures. I treat the food as it if it were my own. Kibble and canned food can have issues too, consider how many recalls there have been in the last few years, for quality food even! The problem with kibble and canned is we really don't know what goes into it, as the recalls proved. At least with raw, as long as I know the source of the items, I know what is going into my animals. My animals are also good about not gulping their food. My animals know how to chew their food, and the bones will not splinter the way cooked bones do. If my animals were not good about their bones, then I would have to look at other alternatives: such as crushing the bone for them or using ground bones. That's not a problem with the raw diet, that's a problem with the animal and how I choose to deal with them. I can't see myself ever going back to a processed diet of any kind, not with what I've seen in my animals.
 
lilratsy43 said:
Moon I am suprized you went back to kibble.

Like I said in my first reply, I don't intend it to be life-long. When I get back in to the work force and things stabilize for me, I would like to return to raw. After I moved my work hours, commuting time and health issues made doing the raw diet extremely difficult. I was spending only about two waking hours a day at home during the week and I was constantly forgetting to prep/dethaw/whatever.
 
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