Commercial eggs and chickens consumption. *crueltywarning*

[xxchelle]

Gah, I wasn't comparing humans to lions as "proof" why we should eat meat or anything like that.

Just the way she worded that "animals shouldn't be food" I was wondering how she felt about animals being food for other animals. I wasn't trying to use it as a comparison to why we should eat meat. Lions can't, and wouldn't know how to, survive on leaves. We DO know how to survive on leaves. And because humans have come so far in the culinary world, we can make pretty much anything, and are creative enough to come up with vegetarian dishes that would make even the strictest meat-eating man drool.

 

[Rachael]

Oh okay, just from the way you worded that "animals shouldn't be food" I was just thinking, animals ARE food, to many many many other animals. Haha.

Oh sorry! :giggle:

Also I don't think most people are disputing the eating of animals......it is the way we keep them, kill them, force feed them, ship them in cruel and over crowded conditions and then slaughter them in barbaric ways.......

I agree. Sort of, because I do not like the fact we eat animals no matter what.

And yep, animals kill to survive. We don't need meat, so why should animals be killed for no reason?

 

[Jack Sparrow]

I don't see why animals should be food. It's like you chopping off your own arm to eat it. What is the difference?

What a stupid comparison. That is what I don't like about some (and I say some) vegetarians. Being extremist and judging is worse in my opinion than eating meat on a daily basis. I AM NOT a bad person.

 

[Rachael]

I never said you were a bad person. I wasn't even directing that at you.
How is that extreme? Because you wouldn't do it to yourself?

You're making out vegeterians are freaks, sorta...

 

[Vanessa]

I wonder if you've battled for the rights of emotionally beset humans as I have or tried to lessen the prejudice?

Always the lame approach, to deflect someones efforts off animal welfare and accuse them of not participating in human welfare.

I have...

participated in raising awareness and money for the Salvation Army, United Way Campaigns, CNIB, I have donated more than $10,000 in my lifetime to human based charities, I have handed out clothes on the streets of Toronto to the poor and emotionally challenged, I have spent Christmas Eve and Christmas Day distributing food to homeless people on the streets of Toronto - many of which are emotionally disadvantaged in addition to financially disadvantaged, and I helped a co-worker who has a brother with Down Syndrome to raise awareness and compassion. Those are just the efforts that come immediately to mind.
And I am the only bloody person here who has ever kicked up a stink over the use of the term 'retarded' - I regard it as a slang as disgusting as any racial or bigotted slang used today.
What have you done for emotionally disadvantaged people today?
Good try, Fidget. Better luck next time.

 

[Vanessa]

I think it's fine, because we can survive off other foods. Lions can't, full stop.

The last time I checked, animals can't farm, they can't manufacture or alter food, they can't shop at the grocery store - the only way that they can obtain food is to hunt it down and kill it.
What's our excuse again?

 

[anita1216]

Although we are 'made to eat meat' we won't die without it

We are not really made to eat meat. We evolved into a species capable of hunting and bringing down prey animals. Until we "learned" how to do that we did the whole foraging thing and like most foragers, we ate what was readily available to us..plants and protien in the form of bugs and whatnot.

Becoming hunters and gatherers has made us stronger, longer lived and kings of the food chain. We moved away from a nomadic lifestyle and ceased to have a natural balance and order.

In that process we seem to have forgotten how to be kind and to take only what we need to survive..hence the farm factories and slaughterhouses that kill and butcher thousands a day.

So yes, we are able to eat meat, but the proof sits in many medical texts that it really is not all that good for us. Funny how you just dont see carnivores with heart failure huh? You don't see omnivores that eat meat in moderation (or rarely) with heart issues. As a whole humans just don't know when to quit.

 

[Avatar]

I know I haven't made many posts. Mostly I enjoy being a lurker, but this argument is one I've seen enough times before that I just can't shut up any longer.

Yes, humankind has evolved the ability to genetically manufacture alternative food sources in order to 'negate' our need for meat. However, I would not consider that 'natural' which is the argument many people use. Just because we can survive off of other foodsources does not mean that our bodies work optimally on it.

I don't like taking pill supplements, as I find them about as natural as the manufactured hotdog. Where am I expected to get my supplements from otherwise? Vegetarianism and veganism is a magical thing. Congrats, you are doing what you can to help the animal population at large. However, there are many people that don't believe that a healthy, balanced diet contains 10 human-manufactured protein and B12 supplements.

Overall my take on the subject is that to call someone a bad person for eating meat is foolish. We don't know for certain what all the protein/B12/etc. supplements can do to our bodies in the end, as our bodies are not ideally made to digest these things in pill form...

Certainly there are many other food sources that contain these things, as I'm sure someone will argue, but my point remains. I just thought I'd add another point of view to the discussion.

 

[anita1216]

I don't like taking pill supplements, as I find them about as natural as the manufactured hotdog. Where am I expected to get my supplements from otherwise? Vegetarianism and veganism is a magical thing. Congrats, you are doing what you can to help the animal population at large. However, there are many people that don't believe that a healthy, balanced diet contains 10 human-manufactured protein and B12 supplements.

Eating factory farmed meat is just about as healthy as those pills you don't like to take. Animals have been genetically altered to the point that some no longer resemble their natural state.

I dont take a truckload of supplements, I dont eat meat..my blood panels are good.

It all comes back to balance and sometimes you have to work a little harder to eat better.

 

[Sharlees rattakisses]

Choice.
It comes down to that.
We can choose to eat meat or don't.
You can't choose for others just yourself.

 

[Avatar]

Eating factory farmed meat is just about as healthy as those pills you don't like to take. Animals have been genetically altered to the point that some no longer resemble their natural state.

How do you know I don't live on a farm with my own free-range chicken, cattle, etc? I'm not taking offense or anything, I'm just saying that there is another opinion. It is equally valid, as there are many people who do eat meat because of their potential long-term health concerns.

Not all people that eat meat contribute to the problem.

 

[sausage4ever]

I love these discussions!!

I'm in the process of planning out my hypothetical hog farm and so far it's going great!
I can only make it big enough for 500head I think but other than that I feel proud of it. When it becomes a reality I want everyone to come out and see it.
I feel that I will be happiest when this farm is up and running. I want people to have a choice in this world.

Also, even though they may be genetically modifying animals to not feel pain here is hope for the livestock industry, otherwise CSAW (Campbell Centre for the Study of Animal Welfare) at Guelph wouldn't exist. This is where I plan to do my Masters in two years, they focus on making the lives of animals better wherever they are used in human society. I hope after attending I will finally have the insight I need to make my farm a smashing success!!

Avatar it was said that 98% of North American meat is from factory farms. I hope to be in the other 2% one day!! Also I presently eat meat from the other 2%.

Lastly I hope any veg-heads that are out there are making the best food choices they can. I don't think anything is more frustrating than watching veggies and vegans eating processed crap or GMO-crammed foods all because there is no meat in it. Unless your soy is organic you can almost guarantee it's genetically modified and if you eat any cereal other than that made by General Mills (or an organic cereal) at the grocery store then you are putting BHA and/or BHT in your body.

I don't put any of that in my body nor do I eat hotdogs. I eat meat but I'm very health conscience even as a student. For me being egetarian would cost me an arm and a leg as all my soy (and products thereof) would need to be certified organic before I ate it and it would have to be from Canada.
I'm real picky about my food now.

 

[anita1216]

Eating factory farmed meat is just about as healthy as those pills you don't like to take. Animals have been genetically altered to the point that some no longer resemble their natural state.

How do you know I don't live on a farm with my own free-range chicken, cattle, etc? I'm not taking offense or anything, I'm just saying that there is another opinion. It is equally valid, as there are many people who do eat meat because of their potential long-term health concerns.

Not all people that eat meat contribute to the problem.

Well if you do live on such a farm...WOO HOO and bloody good for you and those who are fortunate enough to live there along with you <-- that's me being serious, no sarcasm at all.

My point is that if you buy meat/dairy from a grocery store it does in fact contribute to the inhumane treatment of animals. That same system used synthetic everything to help produce that meat/dairy. I just don't care to be a part of that system.

That being said..I don't have a grudge against meat eaters...Im married to one and gave birth to one. :wink2:

Life really is about choices and how we live with the ones we make. What is good for one person may not be so great for another.

 

[Jack Sparrow]

Tuesday September 29, 9:42 pm Ottawa, there has been 34,293,950 abortions so far this year. That number is changing as I type. We can add 50 more now.

Here's the link to this statistic: http://www.worldometers.info/

The estimated Canadian population is 33,795,311. This number is also changing but much slower. We can add one more now. Here's the link: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/edu/clock-horl ... 01-eng.htm

I am not making any comment here, just showing the facts......

 

[emerson]

All I have to say, and I am by no means judging anyone because although I do not eat meat, I do currently still eat dairy and etc. But, the fact of the matter is that whether we like ot admit it or not, this will never stop until the demand stops. As long as we continue to support them by buying eggs, and dairy, etc then it will continue. Whether we like it or not, by buying these products, we are infact supporting that cruelty. To deny that is just silly and unrealistic. Just like animal testing will NEVER stop until we avoid products that test on them. And we CAN make a difference by the purchases we make and choices we make everyday. Simply by choosing not to eat meat you save around 90 animals a year. Also, many products have stopped testing on animals because they started to lose support from consumers. It's all about money honey :nod: They don't care, they just see dollar signs and a decrease in those dollar signs are the one and ONLY thing that will ever make a difference. As one person alone, you can't save the world, but you can make a huge difference. Consumers have all the power, it's in OUR hands.

 

[Jack Sparrow]

I never said you were a bad person. I wasn't even directing that at you.
How is that extreme? Because you wouldn't do it to yourself?

You're making out vegeterians are freaks, sorta...

It was directed at people who eat meat. Therefore it was directed at me.

As for making out vegetarians as freaks, saying that eating meat and eating our own body is the same thing is a freak comment in my opinion.

 

[jorats]

Lets try and remember that each member deserves respect. You may not like them for their choices but you must respect them.
That's pretty much my number one rule here... respect!
I don't want to lock this thread, I find it very interesting and engaging but it must remain civil or it will be locked.

 

[Vanessa]

As for making out vegetarians as freaks, saying that eating meat and eating our own body is the same thing is a freak comment in my opinion.

Throughout history, many, many many societies engaged in cannibalistic activity - it has been a common practice around the world for almost as long as humans have been around.
It has only been in the last few hundred years that cannibalism has had a stigma attached to it that is negative, and still there are communities who continue to practice it today.
It is all in the way that society looks upon these practices, just like society has engaged in racism and sexism, and as each generation becomes more enlightened those practices start to become a thing of the past.
So will cruelty and domination to animals.

 

[Rachael]

I don't make freak comments. I don't know who you think you are talking to, I gave my opinion and it's not my fault if yu are taking everything to the heart. It's just a debate... wow...

 

[Cait]

I don't make freak comments. I don't know who you think you are talking to, I gave my opinion and it's not my fault if yu are taking everything to the heart. It's just a debate... wow...

Actually, this is not a debate. This thread was strictly to give information and shed some light on a subject maybe some people were unaware of.

To be or to not be a vegetarian/vegan is NOT a debate, it is a PERSONAL CHOICE. I think we all need to remember that.