Commercial eggs and chickens consumption. *crueltywarning*

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Vanessa said:
In case you're not up to speed, over 98% of all meat, dairy, and eggs produced in the US comes from factory farms. The conditions in these places are truly horrendous. Animals are crammed in spaces so tight they can't turn around. They literally go insane, lying around all day and night in their own feces. They never see sunlight, have their beaks, horns and genitals cut off (without anesthetic) and are horribly abused by stressed and desensitized farm workers. We kill 10 billion animals for "food" a year in this country, that's over 27 million animals a day. Most of those animals are birds, and all poultry (chickens, turkeys, ducks, and rabbits... yes, rabbits are considered poultry under the law) are excluded from the barely enforced Humane Slaughter Act.

Now, before you start at me with some "humane meat" "happy meat" b******t please take note that all animals, whether they are raised in the nastiest of factory farms or grass-fed, free-range, blah blah blah, are all sent to the same slaughterhouses. That's right, your organic steer is being sent to the same hell as a downer cow and will meet the same ghastly end. If you are a "humane meat" consumer, please take a moment and meditate on the whole concept of humane killing... bloody, fearful, struggling, screaming, despairing humane killing. It's never pretty and it certainly isn't "humane."

There is a video making rounds on YouTube that shows a lone cow shaking in terror as she contemplates walking down the kill chute. She walks forward, then back. Animals can hear and smell the violence and death that awaits them. Their last moments are ones of abject horror and suffering. If you wouldn't condemn your dog or cat to such a fate, how can you pay for others do it to these poor animals?

So. When a vegan is talking to a meat-eater about these issues, he or she is not "preaching", "trying to convert", or any such thing. We're not telling you what to eat. We're telling you what you're eating.

Since animals can't speak a language humans can understand (though I think the screams and terrified moans that fill slaughterhouses should be pretty much universal -- all living beings want to live) it's up to us to tell their stories and inform people of the suffering that goes on conveniently out of the public eye.

If, as a meat-eater, being exposed to this reality bothers you, it is not the fault of the vegan. Lashing out or making up endless excuses doesn't change the stark scientific fact that animals are suffering because of our taste buds. Your neatly packaged chicken breast, all wrapped in pristine plastic, was once part of an animal that felt fear and pain. It's called responsibility and culpability, and we're all to blame.

Now, you may try to argue that eating animals is a matter of personal opinion or choice, but again I'd have to disagree -- this is not about your opinion versus my opinion, this is about animal suffering. You can't discuss your "personal choice" of eating animals while leaving animals completely out of the conversation.

Think of it this way, if you were walking down the street and saw someone beating their dog, would you try to do something to stop it? The same principle applies here. Since eating animal foods is a question of want and like versus need, killing a sentient being, when there is absolutely no need -- except for someone's pleasure -- becomes simply unnecessary and merciless.

And if we say we care about cruelty to animals then it's time we start caring about all animals. Yes, dogs and cats are companion animals but in terms of suffering our canine and feline friends feel the same as a pig, cow, chicken, lamb, or turkey. To pick and choose species in terms of whose pain we care about is incredibly hypocritical and inconsistent. Sorry, but if you're eating veal parmigiana or turkey sandwiches, you don't really care about animals. You may care about dogs and cats but you certainly don't care about birds and baby cows.



All animals deserve to be free from unnecessary pain, fear, and suffering at the hands of humans. How can anything less claim to be humane? Do I want more people to go vegan, is that why I talk and write about it? Of course, but it has nothing to do with me or some group that I belong to. It has to do with the animals who suffer everyday so that we can eat them, wear them, and do whatever we want to them simply because we can.


whether we like it or not everything Vanessa has written here it is true. People can come up with all kinds of excuses but the bottom line is when you eat meat an animal has died.....horribly. Doesn't mean you have to stop eating meat but we should face the truth and not try to pretend it is not happening.
 
When I was younger, my parents bought their meat from a local farmer, but he did his own killing and prepping of his cows... she was not sent to a slaughter house.
 
Yes I have a friend who does that to......they are "good" to their animals as well. Certainly a better way to go....but not everyone has that choice.
 
You know I was just thinking....I guess you could relate it to buying from pet stores. That is an industry most of us do not support......If you buy a rat from there they breed more. In horrible places like rat mills. So if you lived in a place were there wasn't any rescues, or rats looking for homes....and your only choice was to buy from a pet store....would you? It is kind of simplified I know....because wanting a pet is certainly not the same as needing to eat.....but still it is a way to think of it..
If you buy something you are supporting the industry it comes from.......
 
I recently read an article that they are conducting studies and experiments in the states trying to see if they can genetically modify farm animals in order for them to not feel pain. That is how impossible it has become to ever hope to see any type of 'humane' slaughter - that it is easier to genetically modify these creatures instead.
As that article states above, with 27 MILLION animals being slaughtered DAILY in the states alone, there is absolutely no chance that humane slaughter or humane factory farming will ever become a reality. There is just no way that will ever happen. And while some people do have the option of more humane sources - the vast majority (over 98% according to that article) of meat is still coming from the most horrific sources imaginable.
I liked that article very much and it states the most important point of all. People aren't preaching, or trying to guilt others into not eating meat. People are speaking up for animals that cannot speak for themselves. Vegetarians and vegans are not telling you what to eat, they are telling you what you are eating. If you think it is wrong what happens, if you feel guilty about contributing to it, vegetarians and vegans aren't doing that to you. Eating meat is doing that to you. If people want to see a change then they need to facilitate change to their individual lives, their lifestyles and their choices. Not only when it comes to meat, but everything that they create a demand for in their lives. Responsibility and change starts with all of us making different choices in our lives.
Last Sunday I spent the day with some friends, visiting a primate sanctuary and then back to my friends pig sanctuary for dinner. Apart from it being a wonderful day because I could spend time with the farm pigs and apologize to them once again for my pig eating, I met a woman who is studying slaughterhouses and taking animal welfare courses at Guelph. I almost couldn't stand to hear the stories she was telling about how the animals that she encounters at auctions, intense farming facilities and the slaughterhouses that she visits for her studies, are kept and treated. And to top it all off we even had to drive by a dairy farm and got to see all the sweet calves chained to those stupid little igloo things in the front because they are male dairy calves and are all being raised for veal. If people don't think that it goes on in Canada, or even on their doorsteps, they need to open their eyes.
 
I just want to start over right from the beginning.

I mentionned earlier that I support vegans and vegetarians for their choice. About a year ago or so, I started a thread on Joaquin Phoenix and veganism. Joaquin loves animal and he has chosen to become a vegan. That is great and I support him 200%.
I don't know any vegans personnally but if I did, I would do everything to support them and show them that what they are doing is great.

HOWEVER, because there is a HOWEVER. Even if I support them doesn't give them the right to impose their value on everyone else and dictate how people should live their lives.

That is the only thing that I am against. It is one thing to educate people. It is another to accuse people of being cruel. There is a fine line that must not be crossed.
Vegans/vegetarians must continue to EDUCATE people. That is great. But then it is each of everyone one of us to do our own choice. It is wrong to tell people that the only option is to go vegan.

Some will CHOOSE to be vegetarians (but continue to consume eggs, milk, honey or wear clothes made of silk etc).

Some will CHOOSE to become vegan and boycott all products that have been coming from animals, testing on animals etc.

Some will CHOOSE to find other ways to help animals on their daily lives, very simple ways but those people also make a difference, even if it is very small. I am on this third group.

Here are a few example of what is being done by people of this third group.
Taking a rat, mouse, hamster, gerbil to the vet even if they live only 2 years and cost only $20 or less. How many people have told me that I am ridiculous to take my rats to the vet? They claim that dogs live years and years and they cost a lot of money therefore it is logical to take them to the vets. In my opinion, all animals are equal, small or big.

I help 2 animals last week: one rat with an enormous abcess on the face and that poor cat who was hit by a car in front of me. If I can help animals that I meet on a daily basis, I do it.

I tried to rescue an abandon baby squirrel once. I helped a turtle that I found on the street. I helped a mouse escape from a cat this summer. On a few occasions, I put a baby bird back into the nest after the nest have been attacked by a cat. I educate children about loving and respecting animals. I bring my own animals in my classroom. I hatched chicks and ducks eggs, I had a butterfly garden. Even insects deserve respect.

A lot of people would just ignore those animals, that cat being hit by a car, that baby squirrel or that turtle. They teach children to hate insects, not to love them. I am not judging these people. However, I educate my friends by telling them what I did WITHOUT telling them that if they choose not to help animals that way then they don't truly love animals.

A lot of people on this forum do a wonderful job with rescuing rats. They even organise rat trains to help those rats getting to their new homes. I am still thankful to Vanessa who drove a long distance so I could adopt Sweeney, Ozzy and Sirius. She didn't even want me to pay for her gaz. Not all of them are vegans or vegetarians. But we still try our best.

All those tiny actions help animals too. So vegans and vegetarians who are trying to EDUCATE without DICTATING their lifestyle are having success when people start doing little things to help the animals their meet in their daily life. They made a difference in educating us.

Some people will choose to become vegans, it will be their choice and hopefully not because they think they are being told what to do. Some other people like me will choose to do little things to help animals too. It is better than nothing.

Here is a quote from Joaquin Phoenix about veganism: "I don't try to impose my views on anyone else, and I can simply say I feel it's right for me." Being vegan is a personal choice and should not be dictated on anyone.

I found that quote from the following article. It is a very funny article about how Joaquin was sick once after eating pizza. Here's the link:

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/st ... ys_1049850

And here's the article:

VEGAN PHOENIX'S ONLY PIZZA EXPERIENCE LEFT HIM ILL FOR DAYS

Lifelong vegan JOAQUIN PHOENIX once ate a pizza and threw up for two days straight. The Oscar-nominated actor was raised to avoid meat and dairy products, but as a boy found himself unable to resist the temptation of a pizza. And Phoenix's reaction was so strong, he has never eaten the food again. He says, "I don't try to impose my views on anyone else, and I can simply say I feel it's right for me. "Of course, I've had slips. When I was about 12 I stayed with a friend in San Diego. They got pizza, and I was like, 'I'm having some motherf**king pizza.' I ate two slices and vomited for two days. "I'm strange in that I crave salads and vegetables. I've never really had a sweet tooth, and I don't particularly like foods that are too rich. I'm a parent's dream."
 
UGH I HATE VEAL!! I hate everything about it. I have never eaten it, and i never ever in my life intend to do so. I have seen horrific programs on television about how they produce veal and the way they treat those calves is revolting!


I have just been to the supermarket shopping, and they do not stock true free-range eggs. They are 'free-range barn eggs' (i did buy these instead of the ones produced by battery hens that cost half the price for double the amount, just because i needed eggs). They also have 'free-range chickens' in the meat section, but.. there is no possible way of telling wether the animal was free-range or not, or how they were actually slaughtered (probably horribly knowing supermarkets). But the price tag on them.. They cost 50p more per lb and were twice the price of the some of the other chicken there. I cant afford to pay £9 per very small chicken (they werent much bigger than a pidgeon outside). Maybe when i get a job, which isn't looking good in the for-seeable future.

I know for a fact that a butchers in the next town stock true free-range eggs from a local farm. Ah, i so wish i could drive :( I may have to start taking de-tours on my way home from college when i start next week.
 
Jack I agree with you wholeheartedly! it's a matter of respecting everyones choice. We may not agree however.
 
Thank you to all those who have talked to me privately about my last message. It is good to see that not everybody gang on me to prove me wrong. It only shows that my opinion has as much value than the opinion of all those who strongly disagree with me.
 
Without a doubt everyone's opinion holds value. We are all entitled to our opinion and are entitled to stand up for it.
I really do hope nobody was afraid to voice theirs...
 
Dahlas said:
Yes I have a friend who does that to......they are "good" to their animals as well. Certainly a better way to go....but not everyone has that choice.

In the end we all have a choice. It's really about how far you want to go with that choice. People that walk into the local grocer and buy meat, they are supporting an industry that is cruel and disgusting on many levels. I want no part of an industry that tortures animals from birth to death

Apathy is the real problem with the human race, that attitude "I won't make a difference, so why bother" is the reason nothing ever changes.

I am the veg-head in my family, all of the rest are meat eaters. I dont love them any less and I dont preach to them. They make their own choices and they have that right. We have had this discussion many times, it has not changed them, but they respect my choices.
 
jorats said:
Without a doubt everyone's opinion holds value. We are all entitled to our opinion and are entitled to stand up for it.
I really do hope nobody was afraid to voice theirs...

Unfortunately, this is the case. I felt that some people have ganged against me and I can guarantee that some members here are afraid to support my opinion (which is also theirs) for that very reason. They do not want to be attacked the way I have been attacked.


I was on the chat yesterday with someone who is vegan. I told that member that since I am a fan of Joaquin Phoenix, I have been looking at things at the grocery stores just by curiosity. I noticed that a lot of products coming from companies claiming it is vegan friendly are in fact not vegan friendly at all. This was a very interesting conversation. As I told her, so many people believe that vegetarians and vegans are exactly the same thing while there are so many differences. Companies and restaurants should make an effort to make sure that vegan products are really vegan friendly.
 
Vanessa said:
Fidget said:
Just because I am part of the demand for meat doesn't mean I am responsible for the practices I abhor. Eh?
Yes, you are Fidget......
Well, I wouldn't expect any other outlook from you Vanessa and that's ok, I know your views and don't take them personally. I just don't happen to agree 100%. I expect even you have taken medicines that have been developed thru at least some testing on animals along the way.

Like many people I don't approve, and I certainly don't condone animal neglect or cruelty, we do our best to not contribute. I'm even seen as quite militant by those I know in my personal world when it comes to animal welfare. I appreciate you on the front lines for the critters. I wonder if you've battled for the rights of emotionally beset humans as I have or tried to lessen the prejudice? It doesn't matter, we do what we can where we feel we can make a difference, but none of us can do everything right in every segment of the world where there's anything wrong.
 
I'm a vegeterian. Although we are 'made to eat meat' we won't die without it. Personally, I don't see why animals should be food. It's like you chopping off your own arm to eat it. What is the difference?
 
I have to agree with Jack; I have no issue if someone choses to live that way and will support them but to have someone tell me I'm in the wrong for eating meat is very insulting. I would never give up meat. However I am lucky enough to live on a small hobby farm where we raise all of our own cows and chickens (that we use for eggs and meat).
 
I don't mind people eating meat IF it is free range and they are lived a happy life for what they have had. But I don't really like the fact even that meat is killed inhumanely.
 
ratloveandcute said:
Personally, I don't see why animals should be food.

How do you feel about lions eating other animals, then? Or any carnivorous or omnivorous species eating another animal? Because that's what we are, we're an animal species eating another animals, just as the lion species eats gazelles. It's not cannibalism, which is very different, but also practiced in some animal communities.
 
Oh okay, just from the way you worded that "animals shouldn't be food" I was just thinking, animals ARE food, to many many many other animals. Haha.
 
I understand what you guys are trying to say...animals eat animals.....very true. But I think we can all agree that people in US and Canada eat WAY to much of everything.....
Most people could go quiet a while with out eating another animal and still do fine......we have some of the highest obesity rates there are......we don't need to eat that much........so we can't really compare ourselves to lions and other wild animals....who are killing to survive......they don't run down a whole herd and mass slaughter them and then only eat the best parts.
Also I don't think most people are disputing the eating of animals......it is the way we keep them, kill them, force feed them, ship them in cruel and over crowded conditions and then slaughter them in barbaric ways.......
 
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