This Vegan Thing......?

[Vladina]

Chris and Jorats, wow, that is great that you have such accomodations with requesting no dairy in restaurants! I think that is becoming more common these days, so that is a good thing.

Speaking of dairy, I know people here (including me) have talked about how huge of an influence the dairy industry has in the U.S. and their big money and ad campaigns keep the dairy industry trucking along and it reminded me of something I saw recently that totally symbolized how pervasive they are...

My husband and I went to my nephew's graduation recently at a high school in Seattle. We were walking through the cafeteria area for the post-ceremony reception and I saw a huge poster up on the wall with one of those "Got Milk?" ads...I think it was Katherine Zeta Jones or somebody with the big stupid milk moustache. My husband's jaw dropped and we both looked at each other like, "Great, the dairy industry is even trying for the "get em while they're young" tactics. Now, why isn't there a big poster for "Got Soy Milk?" in that cafeteria? Lack of money and power, to name a few, I guess?... :gaah:

 

[Bundyrats]

Has anyone tried Linda McCartneys sausage rolls? Our coffee/lunch truck lady is vegan (which is great for me - she's always making me things to try!) and tells me they are dee-lish! She cant stop eating them! So I bought two packets tonight and I can't wait to try them. There were also a few other items in her range that I bought as well. It's not exactly a healthy option butttt.....we all need a little junk food now and then.....don't we??!! :nod:

 

[Vladina]

No, I have never seen any Linda McCartney products in stores, actually! Have you seen them at a particular grocery store chain? They sound so yummy!

Yeah, I agree, once in awhile we like to do the "vegan junk food" thing and we like to have a vegan burger patty sometimes, but since that kind of stuff is so processed, we do not eat it every single day, but, yes, it's nice to have sometimes!

 

[Bundyrats]

They are at Woolworths which is a nation-wide grocery store here. I'm impressed that they are stocking them in our little town! I thought it would just be the big cities that would have them. Actually, the selection of vegan food is always increasing here so that's encouraging.

 

[Vladina]

Hi Bundy,

Wow, I just realized you are in Australia! You are a LONG ways from where I live (Seattle, Washington) ha ha. Unfortunately, we do not have Woolworths here, as I would love to see some Linda McCartney products, but maybe they just don't sell her line of food products in my area of the United States. They must sell them in other parts of the country I guess.

Our main grocery store chains in Washington State are Safeway, QFC, Albertsons, Whole Foods and some others, but I have never once seen any Linda McCartney products there. Man, I would think that Whole Foods, which is a large chain of awesome grocery stores that sell a LOT of vegan and vegetarian products, would have that. Maybe they DO carry her stuff and I have just not looked close enough. I usually just go for the basic vegan burger patties, but I don't look too close at actual frozen type meals. I will take a closer look next time!

(Okay, since you are Australian, just let me get this off my chest, although I know you have heard this a million times from people who are not in Australia....I just LOVE Koala Bears and Kangaroos! :heart: If I ever saw one up close, I would just melt like butter and want to cuddle them! :cloud9: Probably not very easy to cuddle a full grown kangaroo though! Maybe a teeny Koala bear? Okay, my foreigner/tourist bit is done. You are probably rolling your eyes and thinking, "Yeah, yeah, I know, people love our critters, I have heard it a zillion times." Ha ha.

 

[jorats]

I wish we had LM stuff available here too. I hear great things about them.

 

[Petunia]

I am so glad we have this thread.

I wanted to add a bit about my vegan journey.

I gave up dairy, meat, fish and eggs etc a few months ago. I was already not eating hardly any meat but I was very fond of both butter and eggs- even though I knew neither of those were good simply from a health perspective
(actually doctors have told me that eggs have so much nutrition, it's ok to eat them, even though they have too much cholesterol :roll: the egg industry has gotten to the doctors)
OH I also cut out as much junk food as I could from my diet. I went from eating candy (esp chocolate) nearly every day to only having some vegan chocolate once a month. It's a process... :giggle:

I was doing well but I did notice that on some days I would have very low energy and feel like no matter how much I ate, I was still hungry. I'm overweight and I need to eat a LOT of veggies to feel full. Which is fine, I'm good with that. But it did start to worry about not getting enough protein, so I got some canned tuna and some eggs.
I justified the tuna because I give the water to my cat to get her to eat, and then there's this tuna left over, so may as well eat it, right?
turns out the cats would not touch the tuna water! that's a bad sign, who knows what was wrong with that tuna (I got the cheapest brand they had)

I ate about a dozen eggs over the course of 2 weeks and while I did seem to feel fuller longer, it messed up my digestion in horrible ways. You don't even want to know!

One thing about a vegan diet , or just a whole foods diet is, you need to carry home much heavier bundles from the grocery store! packaged processed food is usually lighter and smaller and easier to carry.
In fact, since I've got bad shoulders, back, knees etc etc I actually had changed my diet to include more processed foods only because they were easier to carry, not because I liked them more

so this new healthier diet means I need to find a ride home from the grocery store and I need to plan ahead and I need to go out once a week to get fresh produce, or have enough frozen veggies and fruits and canned fruits (I rarely eat canned veggies, they are way overcooked)

I also got some more quinoa - I'm not terribly fond of the taste but I've been adding it in small quantities to rice and oatmeal and other things and its not bad that way.
I got higher protein pasta. I am trying to make the transition to brown rice but I really do not like it- too crunchy and tastes sour to me :roll:

I tried to find a vegan doctor or nutritionist and guess what?!?! I kept being told that I want to look for a naturopath (??) and NOT a doctor or medical profession!
the idea of not eating meat was just way outside their realm. I was shocked, totally totally shocked.
I guess I shouldn't be, but it just astounds me that doctors are not recommending a plant based diet.
that there seems to be no sense that it's better for you.
It really left me feeling cynical about the medical profession, almost like they'd prefer you to get sick and need medical treatment, or drugs, just to justify their jobs

we're switching over to something closer to national health care here and the back lash from the medical profession is incredible. The new guidelines emphasize prevention and proven outcomes- evidence based outcomes. they have to show that the medical interventions they are doing now to make their big bucks really make a difference
I have actually overheard doctors and nurses complaining, not because they have a problem with the rules per se, but because "these are people's jobs they're talking about"

seriously???
you could consider that the health profession should be more about helping ppl stay well rather than treating them when they get sick
you could consider emphasizing a healthy life style rather than drugs and surgeries

the wt loss place here doesn't even have a nutritionist that knows anything about vegan diets- they do a rapid wt loss liquid diet and surgery, that's all.

you gotta be kidding me!!!!!!!

so yeh, I'm just astounded.

 

[jorats]

Wow. It's a real eye opener isn't it?
I'm not even going to be telling my doctor that I'm vegan unless I really need to discuss my eating habits. Well, actually, what I do tell people is that I'm on a whole foods plant base diet. Sometimes the word vegan really has a bad reputation and put people on the defensive right off the bat.

Protein gives you more energy if you need to burn more energy but it does not make you feel full. Only fibre can make you feel full and fibre comes from veggies. Water will also make you feel full.
For more protein choose beans, lentils and soybeans. Rice, quinoa, pasta, potatoes are also a good choice when paired with a legume. BTW, peas are a legume and they are high protein too. For quick protein, choose peanuts, walnuts, almonds, cashews, pumpkin seeds and sunflower seeds. A handful of almonds will make you feel full and energized. :thumbup:

 

[SQ]

You can add spices and vegs or beans to quinoa to make it taste good.
I like garlic powder :cheeky:

 

[Petunia]

Protein gives you more energy if you need to burn more energy but it does not make you feel full. Only fibre can make you feel full and fibre comes from veggies. Water will also make you feel full.
For more protein choose beans, lentils and soybeans. Rice, quinoa, pasta, potatoes are also a good choice when paired with a legume. BTW, peas are a legume and they are high protein too. For quick protein, choose peanuts, walnuts, almonds, cashews, pumpkin seeds and sunflower seeds. A handful of almonds will make you feel full and energized. :thumbup:

OK I guess I left out part of the story (on purpose, actually :giggle: )

Now that I eat a lot of veggies and beans and the like, my digestion is um, pretty fast.
food kind of runs thru me super fast. So I need to eat often. Or feel like I do anyway.
Before when I was eating any kind of meat or eggs etc, it made my digestion too slow, I have/had IBS and this would cause constipation.
Severe constipation :roll:

so while I'm thrilled that that is no longer a problem, I do um, well I don't know if this is normal but I have like 5 or more BMs per day now on this whole foods plant based diet
Not diarrhea, though.

So before I was pretty bloated and full feeling, TOO full feeling all the time, which was uncomfortable
I am loving that my digestion is working so well but I am not used to my stomach emptying out so fast.

I figured that might be affecting my energy level, I don't know........
but that was my train of thought, anyway

I eat nuts all day long- almonds, mostly, also peanut butter and cashews and sunflower seeds
I also drink water and herbal iced tea all day long

I eat beans nearly every day- if not beans than peas (hate lentils)

I am getting tired of this tiredness though. If it's not my diet, I worry about what it might be.
I do ok for awhile but then I crash and sleep for a long time, even after getting a good night's sleep.
I know that there are other factors, but I also worry that if I mention this fatigue to my doc again, she is only going to tell me I am not getting enough protein. I may just keep a food diary to prove to her that I DO get enough.


Maybe I just need to get used to not feeling so er, full? But in the meantime, It does feel odd to have my stomach empty out so fast
how do you keep the veggies from um, running right thru you, so to speak? :giggle:
I guess that's probably the good thing about them, though

 

[Vladina]

Depending on how long you have been vegan, it is perfectly normal and actually awesome that you are having to go to the bathroom so much every day! Seriously, this is also very common in the early stages as a nice detoxing side effect of your body emptying/flushing out the toxins and crud and basically, getting that animal meat/dairy junk out of your system. So this is a good thing! If you are making sure to get a well rounded amount of fruits, veggies, grains, nuts and seeds, there should not be any problem with lethargy or lack of energy. Usually the people that say they have less energy are the ones that are not getting enough calories or not making sure to get enough of ALL the awesome plant based foods that DO give you tons of energy and make you feel wonderful.

As for protein, there is tons of it in so many plant based foods that it is dang near impossible not to get enough of it, unless one starves themselves and does not get enough calories in the day. The average American meat and dairy based diet gets about 4 times the daily protein than is needed, believe it or not!

Petunia, brown rice is awesome and we eat it basically every day, in so many different combinations. Not only does it have fiber and all that good stuff, but yes, there is actually protein in brown rice too. You said it was too crunchy and tasted sour, so it sounds like you might not be cooking it enough? I literally had to start with the basics of learning to cook rice and I finally got the perfect and easy way to make fluffy and delicious brown rice.

It is just 1 part rice to 2 parts water, so, for instance, I put 2 cups of water in a little pot or saucepan, put on the lid to bring it to a boil faster, and once it boils, just dump in 1 cup of dry brown rice (we love short grain best..it is so chubby and fluffy!) and once the rice is in the water, give it a quick stir, bring it back up to a boil, then just turn the heat waaaay down, to about maybe 2 on the stove, cover the pot back up and let it simmer for 20 to 30ish minutes? I just walk by every so often, peek under the lid, and it lets me know how close I am to being done with the rice. We make batches of about 3 or 4 cups at a time so we can have it in the fridge to use whenever we want it.

 

[jorats]

Ok, so your lack of energy might not be diet related.... I'm thinking maybe you are anemic, you need iron but if you are eating a lot of beans, you should be getting your proper iron. Are you still taking the b12?
Meat stays in your intestine for about a week. It takes a while for the meat to pass through because it's not natural to be in there so it sits there and rots first. Meat also creates an acidic stomach which is again unnatural to the body. Humans have a hard time coping with the acidic stomach which is why the phosphorus and calcium starts to leach from our bones to compensate for an acidic body.
How about whole grain breads?
If you are a bigger person and are trying to diet, you will always feel like you are not full, that's part of dieting. Have you tried eating a small meal every 2 hours all day long? Skip big dinners or lunches but do small meals all day long.

I had IBS too and all pains went away but I do go to the bathroom more than before but it's not painful. I have a hard time with lentils, they do cramp me up.
For your beans, for those with digestion issues, pre-soak them longer than the overnight requirement. Unless you are eating out of a can, then I would urge you to switch to making it from dry beans. Canned beans contain dissodium EDTA...very bad stuff.

 

[Petunia]

Ok, so your lack of energy might not be diet related.... I'm thinking maybe you are anemic, you need iron but if you are eating a lot of beans, you should be getting your proper iron. Are you still taking the b12?
Meat stays in your intestine for about a week. It takes a while for the meat to pass through because it's not natural to be in there so it sits there and rots first. Meat also creates an acidic stomach which is again unnatural to the body. Humans have a hard time coping with the acidic stomach which is why the phosphorus and calcium starts to leach from our bones to compensate for an acidic body.
How about whole grain breads?
If you are a bigger person and are trying to diet, you will always feel like you are not full, that's part of dieting. Have you tried eating a small meal every 2 hours all day long? Skip big dinners or lunches but do small meals all day long.

I had IBS too and all pains went away but I do go to the bathroom more than before but it's not painful. I have a hard time with lentils, they do cramp me up.
For your beans, for those with digestion issues, pre-soak them longer than the overnight requirement. Unless you are eating out of a can, then I would urge you to switch to making it from dry beans. Canned beans contain dissodium EDTA...very bad stuff.

hmm, well it's very unlikely that I'm anemic, I've never been anemic in my life. Blood work done in Jan was good. I guess it's possible. I am seeing a doctor tomorrow for pre surgical clearance for my cataract surgery, I can ask if he'll check it.

:giggle: bigger person, well um, I'm under-tall for my weight, I guess you'd say. :lol: I weigh around 170-175 (not really sure cuz I've not been weighed recently and dont' have a scale, I think I may have lost a little bit of weight but not much)
but I'm only about 5 foot 3
I'm not actually trying to lose weight- it would be nice if I did, but I"m mainly concentrating on eating healthy foods instead of what I used to eat (which was primarily high fat,high sugar foods, not meat)
I do take B12 all day long, and I upped my D3 too.
I eat pretty often, small amounts. I rarely eat meals, I just kind of graze.
I've never had pain with IBS- only the digestive issues of constipation or diarrhea, probably because I'm on a high dose of an SSRI which I read is often used to treat IBS pain.

I'll have to check out that dissodium EDTA, never heard of it before but it is listed on the can of pinto beans I have


I really don't understand it. I'll be feeling pretty good, and then on some days, or really most days, I just reach a point where I literally feel like I"m hitting a wall, that's holding me back. I get so heavy and weak feeling and just have to lay down and rest. Most often I fall asleep and will wake up many hours later, usually at least 6 hrs later.

This is after sleeping for a solid 8hrs (sometimes more) at night (or whenever I do sleep- I have a very very irregular schedule due to the falling asleep at odd times)

I had a sleep study, it came back fine. I had an abdominal CT which was supposed to be followed up wiht a gastroenterologist because there was some finding that they don't understand......?
something to do with my duodenum being thickened. I cancelled that appt though.
I didn't want to face any more tests with ambiguous results.
My abdominal/pelvic CT scan showed a nodule in my lung- so a chest CT was ordered
that shows a nodule in the OTHER lung, and the one they first saw in the left lung isn't there (???)
so I don't have a ton of faith in these tests after that.

I don't know, it seems if it was from anything serious, it would be consistently bad, like I'd be tired all the time, every day, and not just have some bad days, where I hit that "wall"

It makes me think that it's gotta be diet related. And/or stress related. I do know for sure that anger makes me exhausted and i've been angry because of the smokers here (again!) making my cat sick

but even if i'm not angry, i still hit that wall at least 3-4 times a week
It's frustrating, you know?

 

[jorats]

It almost sounds like depression and stress.
So at 5.3 and 170, that's not too big, all depending on your muscle and weight distribution, body proportion. Like for example, if you have big boobs, those can weigh a lot. Muscle will weigh much more as well.
The food choices you are making now should not be making you feel tired but depression will. The reason meat and eggs will stop that is because it's feeding an addiction and hitting your pleasure buttons. Bad food is always addictive and many people turn to bad food when depressed so for you right now, you can't turn to food to add pleasure to your life. You are sleeping it off. You need to find something else that will bring you healthy pleasure.
You are on an SSRI? Maybe it needs to be tweaked.

 

[Petunia]

It almost sounds like depression and stress.


You are on an SSRI? Maybe it needs to be tweaked.

:gaah: that's what the doctor thinks :gaah: :lol:
I told her no, I"m not depressed, I'm tired :lol:

but if I am depressed, that means that switching me from the brand Lexapro to the generic, which happened right around the time this all started, is the reason.
Or the lexapro just no longer works. I am on the highest dose you are allowed to take, 40mg.
I will ask the doc I see tomorrow if he'd be willing to do the paperwork and fight with the State to get me back on the more expensive brand and not the generic, but there's no way to know if they'll approve it

if the lexapro just doesnt' work any more, even the branded one, I'm screwed

There are no other antidepressants I can take. I've been on em all and they all eventually pooped out (except those that never worked at all or those they can't give me for one reason or another)

oh, meat and eggs dont' make me feel good- I bought eggs because they are cheap and super easy to prepare. My go- to food for depression is chocolate and toast with butter.
and cake

but I don't eat those any more. I really thought maybe food was passing thru me too quickly so if I slowed it down with something like eggs, which really does slow down my digestion :roll: then I'd feel better.

Maybe I have some malabsorption thing going on with my duodenum, I don't know. I couldn't get ANY answers from my doc about that, she was just like, I don't know enough about GI issues, go see the gastro doc

I just pray that I'm able to get up and make this appt tomorrow!

 

[jorats]

I hope you do see about your duodenum. Many nutrients are absorbed through the duodenum and might very well explain your issues.
About the SSRIs, perhaps your body gets used to them? Maybe you might be getting too much of it now which may be causing you drowsiness which perhaps is interpreted as wanting to sleep.
It is proven that a vegan diet can alleviates depression.

 

[SQ]

It is proven that a vegan diet can alleviates depression.

Really? Wonderful News!!!

 

[Petunia]

I hope you do see about your duodenum. Many nutrients are absorbed through the duodenum and might very well explain your issues.
About the SSRIs, perhaps your body gets used to them? Maybe you might be getting too much of it now which may be causing you drowsiness which perhaps is interpreted as wanting to sleep.
It is proven that a vegan diet can alleviates depression.

I tried lowering the dose (twice now since Jan) and it doesn't help at all.
I even went off it briefly but did get pretty depressed, so it's doing something but not as much as it should- OR
the problem is something else altogether

hope this other doc will listen to me!

 

[Bundyrats]

Hi Bundy,

Wow, I just realized you are in Australia! You are a LONG ways from where I live (Seattle, Washington) ha ha. Unfortunately, we do not have Woolworths here, as I would love to see some Linda McCartney products, but maybe they just don't sell her line of food products in my area of the United States. They must sell them in other parts of the country I guess.

Our main grocery store chains in Washington State are Safeway, QFC, Albertsons, Whole Foods and some others, but I have never once seen any Linda McCartney products there. Man, I would think that Whole Foods, which is a large chain of awesome grocery stores that sell a LOT of vegan and vegetarian products, would have that. Maybe they DO carry her stuff and I have just not looked close enough. I usually just go for the basic vegan burger patties, but I don't look too close at actual frozen type meals. I will take a closer look next time!

(Okay, since you are Australian, just let me get this off my chest, although I know you have heard this a million times from people who are not in Australia....I just LOVE Koala Bears and Kangaroos! :heart: If I ever saw one up close, I would just melt like butter and want to cuddle them! :cloud9: Probably not very easy to cuddle a full grown kangaroo though! Maybe a teeny Koala bear? Okay, my foreigner/tourist bit is done. You are probably rolling your eyes and thinking, "Yeah, yeah, I know, people love our critters, I have heard it a zillion times." Ha ha.

Hi, hehe yes, I am all the way over here!
I know that in some states here Woolworths is called Safeway, so maybe it's the same chain after all..??

As for the koalas & kangaroos, they are sweet. Pity we eat Skippy though. I think we're one of the only nations that eat our national animal - so sorry to tell you that. I should have left you with your happy thoughts. Back to the good stuff though, I used to help out at a volunteer wildlife carers home and she always had baby sugar gliders, possums and yes baby kangaroos to look after. No koalas though (oh fyi a lot of people call them bears because they look like bears but they are actually marsupials)
We have kangaroos go past our house quite often because we live a short way out of town. They are so pretty to watch. We also have some big possums in our trees as well. The noise they make at night is like nothing you've ever heard before!!

Petunia, how did it go at the doctors?

 

[Vladina]

Ha ha, sorry Bundy, I worded it wrong when I said you are alll the way over there, lol. I am all the way over here too, heh heh!

Yes, I actually knew that koala bears are marsupials, but boy I had no idea that Australians actually eat their national animal, wow. :sad3:

Yikes, that would be like Americans eating Bald Eagle meat. Whew. In the U.S. if someone is caught shooting/killing a bald eagle, you are in a world of trouble. The possibility of prison time and huge fines are enough to scare any idiot away from even thinking of shooting a bald eagle. Wow, so there must be animal rights groups in Australia that fight against killing and eating koala, yes? I hope so. They are such sweet animals. I could watch video of them forever (since I cannot really see them in person, unfortunately. It would be a long trip to get to Australia to see them up close).

I saw a news article about some clear cutting that was done to some trees somewhere in Australia and the photo broke my heart, as it showed a lone Koala Bear sitting by himself in the middle of a clear cutting area where all the trees had been cut down. Apparently, this little guy had gone out doing his daily Koala thing, then returned to his home, only to find it completely wiped out. A koala sitting in the middle of a clear cut area, looking confused. It made me cry. That would be like me going out to do an errand in the car, only to return and find that someone took my house away and left an empty lot. I could not believe they are allowed to do that??


Wow, you get to see kangaroos going right past you where you live. I cannot even imagine how wonderful that would be.

Sorry Petunia, I got sidetracked on the koala and kangaroo thing, but I did also want to ask if you went to your doctor appointment?

Cheers all.