Sooo Let's Get it ALL out in the Open Shall We? - Poss. SV

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Kriix said:
-Have the majority of small animal vets been notified?

I spent a large part of my morning calling vets in my area that see any animals other than dogs and cats. Because there are no medically confirmed cases, there isn't a bulletin going out to vets at large or anything, but the vets I spoke to asked me to keep them updated on any happenings or confirmations.
 
::shudders:: Yet another reason to avoid PJ's pets FOR ALL TIME. They were remarkably unconcerned by Lilith's cold (though they did let me rescue her), but I despair at getting the manager to take this seriously - she hates my guts enough now as it is (she thinks I'm a nutter because she runs a store and I happen to 'specialize' in rats, and pointed out that goolies on a rat means it's a BOY, so why would you put goolies and non-goolies together to mate and have babies?!?!). She was less than amused when I suggested she raise some funds for Lilith's babies!!

But yeah, I don't want to go near their rats, because knowing their lackadaisical view on sanitation and proper quarantining procedures if they don't have SV, they could pick it up in a heartbeat.
 
Hi guys

I finally have a few minutes to write down my thoughts.

First of all, my heart goes out to everybody who is under quarantine. It is extremely scary and heartbreaking. I also had close personal friends go through it and their strain was a lot harsher and it killed about 60 rats between the two of them.

It is not something I ever want to go through. I love doing rescue and have done so for many years but one thing we all made clear is that we do not ever want to put our own animals at risk. It is just not worth the heartbreak for us. I don't ever want to be in that position. It's just really not worth the risk.

All it takes is one rat or other rodent. One. It might go well 100000 times and then you get that one in.... The risk is too high.

Nowadays there are such mass producer of animals that you don't even know where the animals come from. You think local when in fact the animal could have been bred 1000s of kms away. Diseases can be easily spread esp. with airborne ones such as SDA or Sendai. You can't trust pet stores.

I know a lot of shelters around here have a problem with wild rats/mice. Yet another source. A lot of shelters are not aware of the risks of SDA/Sendai or about quarantine procedures. In a shelter environment it's also often not possible to quarantine.

I also know that 99% of all owner surrenders either lie or have no clue that their animals are sick. 99% of the times we are told that the animal is healthy when in fact they have respiratory issues and/or mites/lice or worse. They too don't know about proper quarantine procedures. You can't trust owner surrenders.

I can tell you though that you can run a successful rescue AND be safe.

You need quarantine fosters. No surprise there, I know. But I know many of you say you have none. They are out there, trust me. I want to give you some tricks on how to find them :thumbup:

Out here in BC we have a very active rescue community. There's a lot of wonderful people out there who are active in cat/dog rescue. They do cat/dog rescue and are clearly suckers for animals in need. We hit up a lot of those up. They are suckers for animals in need but they don't have nor want any of their own small animals. We ask them to do 3 week quarantine and most are happy to do that. It is only a commitment for 3 weeks. We supply everything, the cage, the food, the bedding, igloos, hammocks etc. We have volunteers drop them off, other volunteers pick them up. We are even ok if they just feed the rats and and clean the cages but don't interact with them. While it's not ideal, the main thing is that the rats are safe, have the basics covered and that we can do rescue safely. A lot of dog/cat rescuers agreed to do it once. And then fell for the little ones so we have several one of them now who keep fostering one pair at a time.

Other than that send out mass emails to your friends, ask them to forward it. In the email say what you are looking for... Fosters who have no rodents of their own. Foster period is 3 weeks. All supplies and vet care will be supplied. Support/education is given. Put it on your website, in your newsletter etc.

Make sure you are good to your fosters. If you say it's for 3 weeks make sure it's for 3 weeks, make sure you have back up. Some are ok with keeping them longer until they get adopted, but for some it's really only 3 weeks at a time. Respect their wishes. If you say you supply everything, supply it. Try and supply decent cages ie make it easy for them to clean etc. Be there 24/7. Don't overwork them ie don't drop off 10 rats at any give them but rather spread out the rats over many foster homes. Most people can handle a cage with a pair or trio but not a lot of people are willing to deal with 2+ cages as then it becomes work.

With new fosters give them easy rats, e.g. cute little babies with no issues, or health concerns. You don't want to overwhelm a new foster.

Check in with them to see if things are ok. Make it fun for them. Even have volunteer picnics, potlucks etc.

The rats will do the rest :thumbup: Most people get suckered into the little ones once they have them. Most people get drawn in by their stories.

And as they gain experience you can start giving them tougher cases, some that need medication. Give them instructions, show how it's done, tell them what to look for. Don't get frustrated or angry with them. Especially be there for them when things go bad. One of our main fosters for example is a 17 yr old who is just amazing. About a year ago we took in a pair of rats that were abandoned in a tank together. Our foster set them up in the Martins cage. The next day she woke up to a blood bath, one had killed the other one. She was horrified as we all were... But we rushed over there, offered to clean up the mess, dropped off some flowers and a movie ticket. I know a lot of people wold have quit fostering but because the support system was there, she continues to foster, even difficult cases.

Know their limits. Give them breaks. Some are good and ask for breaks. Protect them from the bad things as much as possible, it's up to you to carry the heavy burden and worry :wink:

It took a few months but we now have a wonderful wonderful steady network of quarantine fosters that we can count on. Some still aren't comfortable with biters, some are not set up to do pregnant ones etc Others are willing to take on EVERYTHING. Some fosters moved away or there were other reasons why they quit. And we have found and continue to find new ones. But there are some fosters that have been part of my life ever since I started rescuing rats just over 5 years ago and they just take one pair at a time. It all adds up. With LMR we managed to rescue over 400 in just over 2 yrs. Proper quarantine was done with each and everyone of them.

Everybody knows about the 3 hour rule though our volunteers are trained well and don't support pet stores that sell animals for example. Because we deliver the rats they also don't have to deal with the shelter after quarantine etc.

We even have a volunteer driver with no rats so that people don't have to worry about the 3 hour after rule. She's a big rat lover but can't foster/adopt as she's in a no pet building. So she gets her rattie fix and does a huge service to us. We give her gas money. We have other drivers who have their own rats so often we have them do the vet trips etc in the morning before work and then have someone else without rats do the pick up in the afternoon etc.

Our vets are aware of quarantine procedures. We warn them when we bring in unqted rats, they tell us if they have any other rodents booked etc. There have been VERY few incidents where qt was broken at the vet but if a rat needs to see a vet that's that.... we just start qt again from scratch.

Yes, sometimes it's a hassle. There were crazy weeks where some of us have to do 3 hour qt several times a week. Those are long days. But the alternative is worse, we don't want to go there. We don't want to take a chance.

Heck it doesn't even have to be something bad such as Sendai or SDA... even mites/lice are such a hassle and Revolution isn't exactly cheap... We are treating every rat that comes in with Revo while in the qt foster since then the use of Revo went down.

Besides the fact that we are protecting our own pet rats and other already qted rescue rats, we have gained an excellent reputation. There are many top notch homes who until recently went to reputable breeders because they felt like they couldn't do proper quarantine. Now we give them a chance to take in homeless rats without the risk. We have become the one and only source for a lot of amazing rat homes who keep coming back for more because they are so impressed with what we do. A lot of them wanted to give rescue rats a home but just didn't want to take the risk with unquarantined rats. We are extremely proud to have so many people that keep coming back for more and totally trust us... even though we make people jump through hoops to get them :laugh4:

We can't pack them up in a bubble and prevent everything. But there are ways to minimize the risk. It is a lot of work and can complicate things. But it can be done. And it is totally worth it. I can't even imagine if I lost one of mine because of something that I did which could have been prevented. I don't ever want to be in that position. I am not adopting anymore rats myself as I want to go back to quarantine fostering so I can hopefully lighten the burden of our wonderful amazing fosters many of which recently went through some tough times. It's the least I can do. Or even to give some of them a chance to have their own ratties, they are so good at letting them go even when they are head over heels in love with them because they know that we'd lose a quarantine foster.

I can't tell anybody what to do. And I'm certainly not blaming anyone because I'm sure you are already beating yourselves up. But I just wanted to say that it can be done, even as a rescue. And I think it's totally worth it for your own ratties and your own sanity :thumbup:
 
You guys have such a great network in your neck of the woods Simone. If only we could get something like that here too. It sounds like it's a work in progress and we've already got quite a few dedicated people willing to commit. I bet it won't be long and we'll be as well set up as you LMR.
 
I spoke to Tim's sister about the possible Sendai - she has chinchillas and is active with several dog/cat rescues, but I figured it was worth her knowing. She checked and it seems like chins aren't susceptible, but she's going to pass the info on to her vet, and also make sure that if she's going to the vet, and we're gonna be in contact with her, she'll keep the 3 hour minimum in between.
 
CCH has already managed to get 4 QT homes, and 2 foster homes lined up, plus one person who's volunteered to drive rats around. You gave me a great idea Simone - I was focusing on rat people, but why not tug at the heart strings of animal lovers in general? The Rabbit Rescue network is close to me, I could get in touch with them about QT/foster homes.

I'm in the process of setting up a Yahoo group for my volunteers, since I already have quite a few who come clean cages, socialize rats, etc. and I wanted to have some way of having them all keep in touch, and also a way of organizing meet-n-greets and such! I have people who even want to help with things like making t-shirts and that kind of thing, so my "network" of helpers is already off to a great start, I think!
 
M0onkist said:
I spoke to Tim's sister about the possible Sendai - she has chinchillas and is active with several dog/cat rescues, but I figured it was worth her knowing. She checked and it seems like chins aren't susceptible, but she's going to pass the info on to her vet, and also make sure that if she's going to the vet, and we're gonna be in contact with her, she'll keep the 3 hour minimum in between.

Chins can not catch Sendai. I asked about this at the Virologist's and was told that it is strictly mice, rats, guinea pigs, and hamsters. Just so that Tim's sister can have peace of mind there!

However, under the conditions that it may not be sendai, 3 hours in between is never a bad idea.. But in all honesty, showering and changing clothes beween rats and any other rodents does more against most viruses than the 3 hour wait period. If the virus has a lipid barrier around it, soap/detergent kills it almost instantly. Also, the heat of the shower speeds the death of most viruses as well (think about it. In any labs that hold live viruses, they are stored in a fridge/freezer. Why? Heat kills them! :D)

Hope that eases your mind!
 
I started volunteering at the CAF (Central Animal Facility) with their rats and am happy to report, that as long as I shower in between them and my boys here we're safe, as they're all SPF (Specific Pathogen Free) from Charles River. My rats pose more of a risk to them than them to me.

I can breathe a little easier knowing I can help the rats in my community without being terrified of contaminating everyone. Also taking into account what Simone said, I won't be visiting the cat side of the GHS if they have rats in (which is barely ever) just to be safe.
 
xxchelle said:
CCH has already managed to get 4 QT homes, and 2 foster homes lined up, plus one person who's volunteered to drive rats around. You gave me a great idea Simone - I was focusing on rat people, but why not tug at the heart strings of animal lovers in general? The Rabbit Rescue network is close to me, I could get in touch with them about QT/foster homes.

I'm in the process of setting up a Yahoo group for my volunteers, since I already have quite a few who come clean cages, socialize rats, etc. and I wanted to have some way of having them all keep in touch, and also a way of organizing meet-n-greets and such! I have people who even want to help with things like making t-shirts and that kind of thing, so my "network" of helpers is already off to a great start, I think!

:thumbup:
 
Sigh...I called the clinic today to make sure everything was good to go for Wed. They told me that we have to reschedule for next Tuesday the 23rd :( Dr Munn won't be back in time, should be back on 18th but wanted to make sure there was time to contact the Lab, etc before the blood draw. I guess this is a good thing, but more waiting again :undecided:
 
I was reading on one of the other threads that although people think this is probably a virus they do not think it is Sendai due to the low mortality rate.

There are not a lot of viruses that cause the kind of colony morbidity that we are seeing. And the clinical signs, or lack of certain signs, tend to point to Sendai.

Before rat owners became knowledgeable about medical issues a viral outbreak would result in many rats dieing. It was not unusual to lose half, or more, of the rats in a colony.

However, over the years the mortality rate has lowered. People now know what to look for and how to treat. You still see the morbidity (sickness), but not the high mortality (death).

Typically, the quick death of a few rats with many others falling ill will alert the owner to move quickly and get the group on aggressive antibiotic (and other supportive) therapy.

Bella
 
I just got an email from my friend (Former president of the Am. Committee for Laboratory Animal Disease) and she said that if there are no clinical signs of SDAV (eye ulcerations- swollen neck- salivary glands) the only other viral choices are Sendai and pneumonia virus of mice (PVM). PVM is not that common (we have never had a colony event that did not come up with either SDAV or Sendai). I am waiting for more information.

Either way, the outcome is still the same. You guys are still going to have to rethink your rescue methods so that you all and your rats never have to go through this again.
 
LilSpaz: Gosh, I never find time to really keep up with the forums, & this was really a nasty thing to come across & read. I'm so very sorry for all that you've been through & are continuing to go through, I can't even imagine how trying this all has been for you. Please, if there is anything you need, do not hesitate to ask & I'll do my best to help you out. :heart:
 
Rachael said:
I haven't been talking to anybody behind anybodys back about this situation. I know how horrible it is, my only concern what people visiting you.... I know it's good for support, but I just feel we all have responsibility to our own rats and even going through all of these procedures, the virus is bacteria and showering, changing clothes and blowing your nose may not get rid of all of it. I can totally see why you did have people visit but I just think it's a risk on other people and your own ratties.
Like I said though I have not being talking behind your back.

Shelagh also has a responsibility to herself and her emotional well being. She is, otherwise, on her own with a huge number of rats and if she were to collapse from the stress and strain of not being allowed to entertain any company to assist her, then the problem would escalate significantly.

You cannot completely wipe out disease and illness. It is a part of life. By allowing Chelle into her home, Shelagh was able to better care for her babies. It is never just about the one party or the other. Shelagh pulled in a friend with significant rat experience to help her through this epidemic. They took every precaution they knew to take when dealing with the quarantine. I feel that the situation could have ended much worse if Chelle had not assisted.

Responsibility towards the rats... yes. Responsibilities to other people... also yes... as long as people take into consideration that illness is a part of life and cannot be completely erradicated. Shelagh and Chelle know what they are doing and have a great deal of experience with rats and their care. I think Shelagh made a qualified decision to let Chelle help. You never want to approach a huge task on your own. The weakening effect will do more harm than running the risk of having the illness transmitted through another human being.

This is a most unfortunate thread to be reading but that's ok. We will all survive. :hugs: Rachael :hugs:
 
Thanks Jen, as usual you were very eloquent and said exactly what I wanted to say for me..hehe.

As for testing, Chelle finally got her results today (she had 2 rats tested a week and a half before I was supposed to, which made me put a hold on my testing plans until we heard back). Both rats tested positive for Sendai and nothing else (no CAR bacillus, etc).

So I decided not to test as at this point it is redundant and shall just keep going the way we are. :thumbup:
 
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