Sooo Let's Get it ALL out in the Open Shall We? - Poss. SV

[lilspaz68]

I am hearing a lot of muttering in corners, so why not just ask? I don't care, and I will tell you!

I also hear that people are being very hard on Chelle because she visited me. Well, she had no choice, with the amount of stuff to bring up (bad back here) that has me set for weeks in rat stuff, etc.AND with all the wonderful people who donated, brought me hope again...I was pretty beaten down by all this, emotionally...I may always seem chipper, but I was exhausted and needed an intervention. She has had NO deaths except those greeks, but I have been discussing these situations/symptoms with knowledgeable folk off-forum, health and experience)and they really did sound genetic, but just in case Chelle voluntarily has shut down her rescue for a month to watch for any symptoms. WHY would anyone hide this crap? This is scary stuff, it will change ratowning in Ontario forever! We are going to have to QT now, whereas we never really had to before in ONTARIO. Note that there are some places in Canada that had to be more aware (for eg, BC) as the ratmills that supply them are across the border where SDAV, SV, etc are pravalent.
Chelle and I plan on seeing each other by picking me up after work and going for a quick dinner, then she drops me off and doesn't come up. Just to keep me from going stir-crazy.

I have had people ask me why test once the virus has gone through? Because whomever has this has a responsibility to the unsuspecting rat owners of Ontario!! Its going to cost a fortune I do not have, but I will figure it out, and get the invasive blood draw done on a survivor, the blood prepped, etc, and then sent to Missouri special delivery for the serology where they will measure the antibody titers. then we will KNOW and we can prepare and prepare others change the thinking in Ontario

I have been through these horrible things with other people, I have researched, and this is how I met Arlene, when her rats contracted SDA, and I gave her some advice and some support. I have talked to Kaia of HVRR when her rats in the rescue got SDA, she had volunteers over to help her occasionally, and we had discussed protocols for afterwards, etc. There's NO winging it here, or casual attitude or lying about ill rats or death. If you have questions, ask them!

 

[lilratsy43]

I for one is happy Chelle visited you! I can't imagine being stuck in complete isolation for how ever many weeks this takes. And I know Chelle has taken every precaution she possibly could!!

 

[ryelle]

I think most people will be wondering or speculating which rat this came in with?

And having no QT procedures at all because you believe your county/whatever is virus free??? I thought QT was something that the mods, admin and most valuable members preached on here to new members? yet how many actually carry out QT?

 

[Dahlas]

I can't imagine people weren't happy that you had company. Everyone knows how hard this is for you. Things happen. We exercise strict quarantine at the shelter I work at and still we end up with URI going through every once and a while. We have had to close to the public for a few months and get everyone healthy again. That certainly did not mean we did not have our staff and volunteers in....we just made sure everyone was diligent in following quarantine procedures when returning to our own homes.....Just like Chelle did. We have NEVER yet taken anything from the shelter to one of our homes.....
I really don't think it as easy to transmit as everyone thinks.....If you are careful, which I know you are, everything will work out.....
Anyone who rescues takes this risk....it is part of the chances a rescue has to take to help so many others.
I hope this all is over soon....and everyone is fine. :hugs:

 

[sausage4ever]

Things happen. We exercise strict quarantine at the shelter I work at and still we end up with URI going through every once and a while. We have had to close to the public for a few months and get everyone healthy again. That certainly did not mean we did not have our staff and volunteers in....we just made sure everyone was diligent in following quarantine procedures when returning to our own homes.....Just like Chelle did. We have NEVER yet taken anything from the shelter to one of our homes.....I really don't think it as easy to transmit as everyone thinks.....If you are careful, which I know you are, everything will work out.....
Anyone who rescues takes this risk....it is part of the chances a rescue has to take to help so many others.

I agree 100% with Dahlas. However I usually don't quararntine too much here as I come into contact with lots of animals that aren't mine at the shelter and the CAF (I am about to start volunteering with the rats there). I am foreced to vaccinate my cats annually due to the problems with URI the shelter has all the time.
I think it's great that Chelle came to visit you, no one likes cabin fever...
My only question would be who brought it in? But you already planning on testing for that.
I only want to know cause if it's out of pet store stock, then the vets need to be made aware that this is in Ontario.

And because it may change how I feel about keeping rats.... :sad3: (there is a BIG reason I don't have ferrets).

 

[jorats]

Let's be honest folks...

But only a handful of people can do a "real" quarantine. If people stop taking in rats because they can't do the full quarantine then we are going to have a heck of a lot of homeless rats out there.

A real quarantine consists of a house with no rats. You need to change clothes, shower, blow your nose... before going near your own rats.
2 weeks to 4 weeks is not even long enough to make sure the new rats are healthy and won't spread something.

Moving your "new" rat to a different room is not quarantining it's being a little careful. It works for myco, bugs and other minor issues. But not for the big ones.
Heck... with CAR b you can quarantine for months and months and still bring it into your home.

We do what we can. When we get hit with something, we rally together and support each other all the while taking extreme precautions which is what is being done in this case.

Talking behind people's back, spreading negative comments is really counter productive and I can't see what you have to gain with that.

 

[Zooy]

I don't believe people are really being negative, a lot of people are just expressing concern. This is going to change how we deal with quarantine and it's just worrisome for a lot of people on how it came through.
While it's absolutely the hardest thing for you to deal with, a lot of us are worried that it could spread.

 

[Dahlas]

For most of us who rescue this can't really change much. I know for myself I will be cautious.....but there is only so much you can do. You can't live in a bubble. When you choose to rescue you know there are risks.
Keep new rats separate, treat illnesses, wash, wash and wash again......and hope for the best. Most times it will be enough.....and when it isn't you deal with it. No one to blame....it just will happen.

 

[lilspaz68]

Totally, this is a scary situation for a lot of people. I needed to get a post started (not my support post) about the facts.

At this point there is NO guarantee who it came in with, but my suspicion is the 3 babies from that horrible Hamilton bastid. As we know Mame was very "off" etc. Chelle had them for awhile which is why she took the precaution of shutting things down on her end. My theory is that only Mame was sick, and after she arrived she got the other babies sick, so I had 4 virus-replicating machines, which set it it all off, snowball fashion. I have gone back and forth late nights with Bella, Melina of DazzleMe Rattery (she is the one who saw my pattern in the illness)...at first I was sure it was Steph's rats coming in (I had biased myself and sent the excel timeline out to several completely objective people, because I knew it) but viruses normally take up to 8 days to rear their heads (hence the minimum 2 week QT) and sadly it works with the timing in my case.
Babies arrived on Feb 7th, Theo and Duds died on Feb 15th. Its not their fault, they are just sweet babies, and I didn't want anyone to dislike them for being patient zero(s). In my mind I call the Tribbles the Plague Babies. :heart:

 

[Rachael]

I haven't been talking to anybody behind anybodys back about this situation. I know how horrible it is, my only concern what people visiting you.... I know it's good for support, but I just feel we all have responsibility to our own rats and even going through all of these procedures, the virus is bacteria and showering, changing clothes and blowing your nose may not get rid of all of it. I can totally see why you did have people visit but I just think it's a risk on other people and your own ratties.

Like I said though I have not being talking behind your back.

 

[lilspaz68]

That should be my last visit until this is over. I will likely meet people downstairs in my lobby if I must see anyone or I need stuff dropped off.

 

[Avatar]

I know it's good for support, but I just feel we all have responsibility to our own rats and even going through all of these procedures, the virus is bacteria and showering, changing clothes and blowing your nose may not get rid of all of it. I can totally see why you did have people visit but I just think it's a risk on other people and your own ratties.

One thing about SV is that according to ratguide, it can only live off-host for 3 hours. So as long as people follow the proper precautions (ie showering, blowing nose, changing clothes, cleaning under nails) as well as stay out of the house for 3+ hours, the virus will not spread with you.

While many people may call me biased as I'm friends with Chelle and Shelagh, I did read about it. I immediately googled everything I could, + ratguide, to be sure that not only were Chelle and Amanda safe after their visit, but so was I (and in effect, Winston). I feel safe in my home and I -met- patient 0(s) face-to-face as well during their rescue (before we knew they were ill), and still no rats in my apartment got sick. It's not as easily transferred as one might think; it even takes a sneeze radius of 5-6 feet to spread.

Sure, the concern is there that by some magical freak accident it could still spread... But come now people; talking behind backs and speculating things without outright asking is NOT the way to do this. If you're too afraid to ask on the thread, then PM people your concerns and questions. We all know that anxiety breeds confusion and misinterpreted facts in situations like these.

On a side note: Shelagh, is there any way you could get your ratguide friends to join and help clear everyone's minds? Despite the fact that the facts are now out there, I wonder if perhaps it would ease some more minds having someone not heavily invested in this that is knowledgable share the facts.

PS: Sorry ratlove! I didn't mean it to come across as this possibly attacking YOU for talking behind backs. I just saw that you had mentioned worry about the possible spread and it pertained to what I intended to post, so that's why I quoted you :thumbup:

 

[ryelle]

I am struggling to find anywhere else apart from RatGuide that says the virus can't live off-host for more than 3 hours.

The problem with this Sendai virus for all of these rodents is that, unlike the SDA virus of rats, these infected colonies continue to carry the disease. With SDA, which is a corona virus, rats shed the disease for about seven days and then the disease is gone. Sendai virus doesn't go away, so the carriers are always a danger for the uninfected.

http://www.rmca.org/Articles/sendai.htm
:? what does this mean for the rats involved?

 

[jorats]

Also, I'd like to point out that this is not confirmed SDA or Sendai or anything.
Lets find out what we have first, then hit the panic button if you need to.
Until then, I believe all precautions are being taken.

 

[henry's_mum]

It NEVER ceases to amaze me that people can befriend a person, then go behinde their backs and whisper things about them.... again, just strengthens my bond to children and animals.

In a perfect world,we'd ALL have PROPER QT housing, but the world is NOT perfect! and yes, can we ALL be honest guys, how many of YOU take in rats, adopt rats, and do NOT do QT proceedures?

Perhaps Ontario should not do rescue anymore? and yes, I AM flying off the handle, I AM being rash, because i'm TIRED of people talking about other people, ME included, if you've got something to say, SAY IT, or be quiet!
People who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones!

 

[ryelle]

Well, the next question would be: has Shelagh found a vet she trusts enough to try and get this thing diagnosed?

 

[jorats]

Shelagh has Dr. Munn one of the best! She just needs him to return and this should get sorted out.

 

[LA]

Well, the next question would be: has Shelagh found a vet she trusts enough to try and get this thing diagnosed?

Most definitely, hers vet is one of the best.

 

[Ewa]

I am guilty of skipping one QT time .... it was just once! But even once can take out your whole colony. At the time though , I didn't have the space to do a proper QT... luckily everything turned out fine but c'mon people , I would like the one person who hasnt made a mistake with there rats to speak up! :nod:

 

[lilspaz68]

I am honestly not fond of a lot of the RMCA articles at all. Especially that one. Note that the article was done in 1999, the books it used to reference were 1998, 1997 and 1989!!

What really makes me laugh is the defunct Pet Rats Canada site has a ton of better information links even to the RMCA, and its been shut down for how long Jo?
http://www.rmca.org/Articles/dosanddonts.htm

The Sendai and SDA viruses themselves are eliminated from a single infected mouse or rat within a few days after infection. The Sendai virus remains detectable in a single infected mouse up to ~12 days after infection and in a single infected rat up to ~9 days after infection; the SDA virus remains detectable in a single infected rat up to ~6 days after infection. Once Sendai and SDA viruses are eliminated/no longer detectable, the previously infected mouse or rat is nominally considered to be sendai- and SDA-free and no longer contagious.

DO quarantine a non-breeding group of new/infected mice for longer than 3 weeks and a group of new/infected rats for longer than 2 weeks. Quarantine must be long enough to assure virus infection and virus elimination in each and every rodent under quarantine.

Here is the link to RADIL's page on rat viruses (one necropsy pic within, be warned)
http://www.radil.missouri.edu/info/dora/RATPAGE/vir.htm