Rat behavior explanation needed!

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vickye69

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
73
Location
USA, Connecticut
First, some back-story.

My brother (who still lives with my parents) bought a pair of male rats months ago. He kept them in a fish tank, which sucked, but he was taking decent care of them besides that. For some reason he decided that he wanted more than two rats, so he got two more at some point. Eventually he got sick of them, and had all four of them crammed in that 10 gallon tank.

I was over at my parents house last week, and my dad was griping about how he had to feed them and clean the cage since my brother didn't care and never even bothered to look at the rats anymore. So, even though I've never had rats before and know nothing about rats, I took them. I couldn't let them live the rest of their lives in that filthy fish tank.

Anyway, my dad said they were all males, so I assumed they were. I brought them home and put them in a left-over petstore cage I had and let them adjust for awhile. After they had settled down a bit I checked them all over and it turns out that two of them are females. So, now I have two cages, which is fine. I've got three cages of guinea pigs, so I can deal with multiple rat cages too.

Anyway. All the rats were getting along fine. They were happy with each other, and they were fine when we took them out to run around on my bed. A few days ago, they all went nuts. The boys started fighting at night, rolling around the cage and screaming all night long, so they're seperated. The girls decided that they're going to bite me every time I go near the cage. Not just the mouthing and tasting that they've done before, I've got at least three serious bleeding bites on my hands. Two bites happened through the bars, and one happened when I tried to pick one of the girls up out of the cage.

So. Why are the boys fighting? Why are the girls biting me? How could I tell if they're pregnant or not? If they are pregnant, would that make them more prone to bite me? I really have no idea about rat behavior, so any advice would be great!
 
Biting girls could definitely be pregnant. How long had they been together when you took them. Biting through cage bars is possible, especially if they've gotten treats through bars... sometimes they are confusing fingers for food. And being bitten trying to pick them up can happen if they've been freaked out or if you scare them by picking them up by grabbing from above. My bet is on pregnancy though.

If the boys were not drawing blood they could have been doing just really heavy duty playfighting. Don't ever separate cagemates unless you are seeing serious problems, like blood being drawn.

This is all very hard to know without knowing how old all the rats in question are.
 
The problem you are having is that the girls are probably pregnant. Did you have the girls and the boys out at the same time? The boys were probably fighting over the women.

If the girls are pregnant (which I think they probably are - please post photos), then they could also be biting you because you are in their territory.

Think how you would feel about being left in a tank with nobody coming to care for you and to play with you and to love you, you get used to it. Then you're moved to a strange place and someone is trying to grab at you, etc. It will take some time to get them used to you. I would suggest sitting next to the cages and talking to them. Sitting near them, or even putting your hand in the cage (when you feel comfortable) so they can smell you and get to know you. Then try to pick them up have them out to play. I would give them some time by themselves to get used to your house first.

Since you just got these rats, they are probably still very nervous. You should never put your hands or fingers through the bars because the could be confused with food. I would not seperate the boys unless there is blood drawn.

Make sense?
 
Oh boy... first thank you so much for saving these poor sweet rats.

I agree with what everyone said already.

Stress for the boys because of their past living conditions, change of home and lost their girlfriends. Stress for the girls because of their past living condition, new living conditions, lost their boyfriends and now probably pregnant.

Give them more time. Don't put your hand in the cages, let them know that it's their home and you won't intrude, wait till their are more secure with you. As for the boys, I'd put them back together. Remember, they used to "get it" all the time and now they don't so they must deal with that too so that can cause some macho fighting.
 
I don't know how long they had all been together. But the girls are still quite small, and I know that the petstore doesn't sell older rats, so I'm assuming it hasn't been more than a few weeks. (I weighed the girls today, they're 217 and 190 grams, if that helps determine age. From all the info I could find, that would put them at about 6 weeks old?)

As for the biting, I've never given them treats through the bars. And before that they were in the tank, so feeding through the bars would have been impossible. They were fine with me before, I'd put my fingers up to the bars and they'd smell and lick and mouth my fingers, but never bite hard. I could reach in and pick them up any time with no problems, now all of a sudden they try to bite as soon as I go anywhere near the cage.

So is there anyway to tell if they really are pregnant? Everything I've seen says that you can't tell until they're a week or a few days away and then they get 'obviously pregnant'.

The boys and the girls have never been out of the cage at the same time. As soon as I got them home and was able to check them over, I realized two were girls and I seperated them. I've had them all for over a week now, and they've always been alright with contact from me. I could put my hand in my cage, pick them up, and they would climb all over me when they were out of my cage on my bed.

If I put the boys back together they're going to have to be in a seperate room, because there's no way I can sleep with the screaming all night long. Being in my bedroom they all get to see me all the time, if they were in a seperate room it would cut down on the interaction time.
 
Mmm, this might be tougher then. Hopefully if the girls are quite small and young, they may not be pregnant. The only way to really know is if they go into heat and also by weighing them. If they gain lots of weight in the next two weeks, then most likely they are pregnant.
As for the boys, one screams all the time? Do you see any blood, bites and gashes on them?

There is also another possibility... rats can have mites or lice and this can make them act up, be grumpy and nippy as well. But before you treat them, you'd have to make sure the girls aren't pregnant.

How big are the cages? Even though it's probably bigger than the 10 gallon, males need the right amount of space so they can enjoy each other but also have lots of room for themselves to be alone.
 
The boys really can't live alone. It's just.. not an option. Also, their cage dynamic suddenly changed, with their ladies being removed, so that could cause some real strife.

If you start weighing the girls every day, that'll give you a good idea of if they are pregnant or not. But... biting that suddenly really is a very good indication that they are.

If you have the money and a knowledgeable vet, I'd get the girls spayed and then give them back to their brothers. That could fix a LOT.

As lj said, if you can post pics of the girls, it might help us see what's going on.
 
I can never tell which boy is screaming, they only 'fight' when it's I turn off all the lights and try to go to sleep. As soon as the light comes back on they just freeze and stare at me. One boy has had blood on his shoulder, but I don't know if that's because of a bite from the other rat or because he's scratching himself. I'm pretty sure he's got mites, which I'm going to treat once I get the stuff for it.

They're all in petstore cages, which I'm pretty sure aren't big enough, but it's the best I could do on short notice. One cage is 39" by 21", and the other is 32" by 20".

I have some pictures of them, but my camera sucks and I don't think they'd be very helpful at determining anything. I'll post them in a minute though.
 
Here's the girls, pictures taken a few days ago. This is the best I can do without any natural light.

harriet1001.jpg

rat31001.jpg


And the boys, so they're not left out:
rat12001.jpg

This one didn't want his picture taken.
rat2001.jpg
 
You could get the boys fixed, and put all the ratties together.That could help. A rat cage needs to have a base of 30x18 or more, so they bases are fine. However, height is really important. How tall are the cages?

Cute rats.
 
The cages are only a few feet high, there's no levels in either of them. They do climb the walls and I could probably put another level in the cages, but they would still be the same total height.
 
Levels would be great, to give your rat a place to rest, and a it's a surface for more toys. Look through the Ferret Nation and Cage Pics thread in habitat for ideas. (Mines on pg. 13 in Show Your Cage, if you looked I'd be happy.... lol)
 
Your cages are a good size for two rats, if you can put in a level so they can jump up on something and also hammocks, you'd be all set.
 
Good for you, saving those poor sweet rats! :tracks: But you must now be wondering what you got yourself into.... oh well, now that you're a Forum member you will soon become used to being a devoted and penniless servant to your new family. :lol:

The good news is that the girls will probably stop biting once they are no longer pregnant or with small babies. The bad news is that you are likely facing an e-spay or the fostering of a lot of babies. Let's hope that the girls were too young.

I hope that you can find some good stuff to make shelves for your cage. The Dollar Store used to have corner shelves for the shower, and Shelagh once found some cheap shelves at either WalMart or Canadian Tire. With a couple of shelves and some hammocks made from dish towels, and a couple of empty Kleenex boxes, your ratties will be comfy and busy. Hope you can get them treated for mites just in case.

Good luck! And.... :welcome4: to the Rat Shack.
 
Girls are definetly gaining weight, one gained 7 grams from yesterday, and the other gained 15.

Should I be treating the girls for mites if I'm unsure if they're pregnant or not? I know some animals you can treat while pregant, but I don't know about rats.

I'll look around the house, I'm sure I've got something that would make a good shelf.
 
you can get good cheapo shelf material from the bathroom section at walmart or dollar stores... as long as you are creative.

15 grams sounds like a REALLY big weight gain to me. I've never dealt with preggos though.
 
It's a big weight gain if the girls are full grown but it's not if they are young and just growing naturally. Don't treat the girls in case they are pregnant. Best thing to treat with is Revolution.
 

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