Pip's Intro to Ed & Al(RIP) [Success!]

Shop with us on Ebay
Fins us on Amazon
Advertise with us
The Rat Shack Forum

Help Support The Rat Shack Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
S

Scythe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
727
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canda
So Pip has started getting pretty outgoing, starting to get a teeny bit better(though slowly) and since I had the day off today, I figured it was a good day to throw everybody together in the tub and see how it goes.

The past couple of days I've been swapping things between both cages -- and everything swapped went ignored. Ed even immediately went up to Pips hammock and curled up in it. And Pip curled up underneath the fleece scrap from the others cage and slept. So I figured it couldn't go too bad, and was at least worth a shot.

I'm no expert at intros, but I think for a first try, it went pretty well.

It lasted about 45 minutes. I had two 'helpers'(who basically watched and only carried the rats to the bathroom for me lol). The first twenty minutes was very relaxed. Everyone walked around, ate the pablum, Al curled up on the towels to snooze and I'm thinking, "Oh this will be a breeze!"

...Then Ed had to be a little PITA.

Pip was very interested in checking everyone out. I was expecting very aggressive behaviour from him, because from what I was told, he's NEVER been with another rat before since he was bought from the pet store when he was 6 weeks old. And he's about a year old right now. So he just kept sniffing everyone, curious, etc. Ed groomed his back at one point and I thought all was well... but then out of nowhere when Pip was sniffing him, Ed just snapped and we had our first squabble that Pip came out the victor of.

Ed and Pip had a lot of squabbles, mostly all that calmed down when I placed my hand over them just hovering.

Pip and Al only fought once -- but I thought they were going to go flying out of the tub from how bad the fight was. I had to throw a towel on them and pull Pip out to get everyone to calm down as I rubbed Pip's chest. Al was pretty much done with the whole scenario after that -- his alpha ego wounded because a young whippersnapper beat him up, he retreated to curl up at the side of the tub and ignore the other two.

After that, it was all Pip and Ed again. Lots of poofing, but no boxing, bum checking, hissing, etc. They would stand(on all fours) and stare at each other... Ed would slowly open his mouth, bare teeth... and lean forward to slowly inch towards Pips nose like he was gonna bite. More scuffles of course...

But because Al seemed like the whole ordeal was getting to be too much, I ended it at 45 minutes long and waited for Pip and Ed to separate themselves. Pulled Ed and Al out, put them in the cage and gave them both a treat and pettings, and then went back to pick up Pip and put him back and give him a quick pet and some treats as well.

About a half an hour later, though, I noticed that Pip and Al's scuffle ended in a few wounds on Al's back. :(

But... some pictures of intros!

DSC04255.jpg


DSC04256.jpg


DSC04257.jpg


DSC04259.jpg


DSC04261.jpg


DSC04265.jpg


The injuries... They arent bad, just a small cut and a puncture, but I'm gonna spoiler it just in case.
[spoiler:3qitnmbf]
DSC04268.jpg


DSC04269.jpg
[/spoiler:3qitnmbf]

And two videos! Ignore my 'helpers' in the background... :giggle: :roll: 7 year old girl and a 5 year old boy who don't know how to be quiet... :emb: There was one point where everytime they fought, Emma would scream and yell that they were fighting, and 'OMG Aren't you watching?! Stop them!' Please ignore the stupid conversations and dumb sibling rivalry :emb:




This was how Ed and Pip stood, I think this was just after Ed was baring his teeth and leaning forward to Pips nose...


Did I do okay for a first? D: Any tips?
 
I have found with my boys and girl intros, my boys always bite the face. it was good intro. I would maybe try water in the tub for a few session, I am totally loving that idea LOL

Ignoring is ok, mine do that too. I look for how bad the fights are, but the bite on his back doesn't look so bad. it is just a slight wound. I also recommend outside if you are able. I love it for intros.

Since the one seemed a bit cocky, i would do the water. Some may do that for days anyway, it seems like some rats take longer to see that they win LOL I like the hand thing you did, it distracted them a bit. try some food out, something they LOVE. But with each step, you will have squabbles so just accept that and you will be fine. That was always my biggest problem :laugh4:
 
Pip is the himi... he's very rude. Can you dominate him? I saw you pet him, next time with your full hand, press down on him and hold him down firmly for 2 seconds. The other boy he was with...Al? He's very stressed out. If you dominate Pip, it will help Al.
I love the kids in the video. Good to have them there and talking. And even having their hands go over once in a while, made the rats stop and figure that out instead of each other.
 
jorats said:
Pip is the himi... he's very rude. Can you dominate him? I saw you pet him, next time with your full hand, press down on him and hold him down firmly for 2 seconds. The other boy he was with...Al? He's very stressed out. If you dominate Pip, it will help Al.
I love the kids in the video. Good to have them there and talking. And even having their hands go over once in a while, made the rats stop and figure that out instead of each other.
Click to expand...

What makes his behaviour rude? I figured things would be a little weird with him, because he hasn't been with rats since he was 6 weeks old... I wouldn't be surprised if he's not sure he knows how to interact with them properly. I'm not sure how dominating would go, but he is okay with my hands up my his head/neck, so I probably could. Do I mainly press his chin to the ground and the rest of him sort of 'follow suit'? I remember there was a technique mentioned before involving scruffing, but I thought all of that was for worse squabbles.

For a while near the end Pip really did have Ed going, Ed was really puffed and kept baring his teeth.

Al is the mink guy, Ed is the 'blonde'. Ed and Pip are the ones constantly getting into little squabbles, but Al is the Alpha of the cage and he and Pip only got into one rather large fight where I had to 'throw in the towel' and pull Pip out and rub his chest like I read in the intros page.
 
Ok so it's Ed who's very stressed. I say Pip is rude because of Ed's behaviour in the video. Ed is actually bruxing quite hard and his breathing is more laboured.
Pip knows exactly how to be with rats. He did a successful flip of Ed. He also wants to mount him. He's showing dominance to the beta and the beta is very worried. Don't do the scruffing, he doesn't need that... but a gentle push towards the ground, put your hand over his head and back and push down gentle but firm, hold for 2 seconds. This helps to de-stress some rats. It's like saying to Pip, it's ok, I got this. I'd do the same to the one showing his teeth and about to bite.
 
I'm not sure how Pip will react to it, but I imagine he'd do better with being dominated that way than a dominant pinch, LOL. I'll definitely try it tomorrow.

What about the big scuffle between Al and Pip? Pip seems to want to be the alpha from what I understand, but Al's been sort of 'moping' like he's incredibly tired ever since the huge scuffle they had. Do I let them keep going or do something to stop them like throwing the towel down?

Wouldn't Pip be more out to overtake Al, since he's the 'boss' of the two? Instead of just going for Ed who is like the lowest of the chain... It seems like he's constantly pissing Ed off and having little flips and mounts with him, while Al wanders around like nothings happening and even had a snooze.
 
I think Pip kind of knows to hang back from Al and go for Ed. But he's just biding his time.
Instead of throwing a towel over, do you feel comfortable enough to push Pip away whenever he goes close to Ed? and say a firm NO. I just don't like the look of Ed when Pip goes for him.
Also, any of these boys neutered? And their age?
 
jorats said:
I think Pip kind of knows to hang back from Al and go for Ed. But he's just biding his time.
Instead of throwing a towel over, do you feel comfortable enough to push Pip away whenever he goes close to Ed? and say a firm NO. I just don't like the look of Ed when Pip goes for him.
Also, any of these boys neutered? And their age?
Click to expand...

When he goes for Ed, I'm comfortable doing that, but not when he goes for Al because it literally becomes a fur-flying rat ball and thats when I threw the towel in on pip.

Ed and al are 2 years old, Pip is a year old. No ones entered.
 
Aw ok... Ya, I wouldn't allow young Pip to jump Ed. Push Pip away when he goes for Ed, you can do the same for Al, show Pip that you won't allow for rough pinning. I suspect though that Al can take much better than Ed because he is alpha and it's in him to defend that.
 
jorats said:
Aw ok... Ya, I wouldn't allow young Pip to jump Ed. Push Pip away when he goes for Ed, you can do the same for Al, show Pip that you won't allow for rough pinning. I suspect though that Al can take much better than Ed because he is alpha and it's in him to defend that.
Click to expand...

Okay. Is there anything else i should do or watch out for? Someone mentioned trying water in the tub with an island, but are they bad enough for that?
 
Today seemed better? It didn't seem as tense. Ed and Pip only got into one fight, though there was a lot of 'bumchecking'. After the one fight Ed seemed a little stressed and I kept trying to offer him treats to get him to calm down, but he just curled up tense in a corner of the tub. But there was no staredown like last night, and no bearing teeth. Al spent the entire time crawling around on the towel trying to find a place to snooze... :emb:

[youtube:144tq5iv]qHhUeypRBmY[/youtube:144tq5iv]

[youtube:144tq5iv]J4TNUi2-574[/youtube:144tq5iv]

[youtube:144tq5iv]mm3-OD5sLkQ[/youtube:144tq5iv]
 
This is a great turn of events. Pip in the first two videos is showing a lot of respect to Ed. That's exactly what we want. In the last video where you ask what are you two doing, Pip is actually being dominant over Ed by placing his head underneath. You can see Ed got more stressed but not so much as with the flipping. So this is very good. Al is being wonderful. He's a good alpha. Continue doing this for another few days. If it remains this good, then move to familiar ground, still without any cage though.
 
Nothing amazingly interesting this time... Ed has started to get vocal with Pip, Al has started getting into the mix instead of snoozing the whole time... No full-out fights, this time. Not even any little tussles or flips. Just lots of Pip and Ed getting into disagreements. At the beginning of intros Pip was very bouncy, all over the place. He kept running from Ed to Al, and he'd go for their scruffs in a sort of grooming manner but seem to get distracted instantly and bounce off again. Is he trying to play?

About 50 minutes in Pip got very poofy despite no one being near him and I couldn't touch him or he screamed and whipped around to get my fingers, so I waited for him to calm down before I ended intros so I didn't end it with him puffed up.

In order of when taken...

[youtube:1ucyjyhe]xJtoZ6GazFA[/youtube:1ucyjyhe]

[youtube:1ucyjyhe]UGCqxOwicEs[/youtube:1ucyjyhe]

[youtube:1ucyjyhe]uTqb31UHLLA[/youtube:1ucyjyhe]

[youtube:1ucyjyhe]ZyruhQrWFzg[/youtube:1ucyjyhe]

[youtube:1ucyjyhe]Qpnsb9K3o3k[/youtube:1ucyjyhe]
 
It's going good. Your resident boys are dealing with Pip fabulously.
Everyone should see the video of Pip getting up and looking like he's about to do a grooming and changing his mind. THAT...is how most rats get cut up, bit or deep gash on the shoulders, neck and back. Al, who is a good boy, knows to NOT MOVE while Pip goes on top. If Al would have moved, he would have gotten himself a big chunk taken off of his back. Pip is back to being a jerk. The one time you dominated Ed, it should have been Pip. When Ed gets into Pip's face, he's trying to say: "uh oh, Pip is feeling off again". and so he would need your hand over him to help him calm down.
So... don't put your hand over Ed or Al, they are doing great. (although, I saw that your hand totally calmed Ed's energy) But it's Pip... he needs all your efforts now to help him control himself.
 
Yeah, I know there was one time where the second I took my hand of Ed, it seemed like his tension was gone and he ignored Pip and walked off. So even when Ed is stressed and poofed up at Pips face, go for pinning Pip down?

I also noticed sometimes it seems like Al runs through them on purpose and 'breaks' things up. Is he doing this intentionally? (I think he does it in a video, too)
 
I think Ed is calling for help and that's when Al comes charging through. When Ed is getting ready to bite Pip's face, that's because he senses Pip is about to get out of control. So pin Pip.
 
jorats said:
I think Ed is calling for help and that's when Al comes charging through. When Ed is getting ready to bite Pip's face, that's because he senses Pip is about to get out of control. So pin Pip.
Click to expand...

Alright. How come Pip would have such an issue with Ed? Or is it the whole thing of knowing not to go for Al because Al's the alpha?

There was a good couple of minutes at one point where he was actually grooming Al's neck and Al let him, and then they both went their ways quietly.

Other then Ed and Pip, it's still going pretty well, though, right?
 
Pip has changed his mind... He's starting to bug Al, it seems. Al has stopped being quite AS lazy during intros and has actually joined in on the bumrushing festival going on. He no longer lets Pip groom him -- when Pip goes to, he screams and jumps away or turns on Pip(though no boxing or fighting).

Al is still coming charging to Ed's defence and doing really well at breaking up their little staredowns.

For about ten-fifteen minutes at the end of intros, I let them all run around together on my bed. It's not ENTIRELY neutral, only Pip really spends time on the bed(his cage door bridges to the bed for his out time), but they did pretty well, though I know fifteen isnt enough to really tell. I'm not sure where to do neutral for them since Ed and Al's territory is the floor in my bedroom, and if they get into a rat ball underneath something, how am I gonna stop that... :panic: Plus it's a really big space.

[youtube:gb2uak0p]-OeGnFh8gZE[/youtube:gb2uak0p]

[youtube:gb2uak0p]u-_dvNEdNvA[/youtube:gb2uak0p]

[youtube:gb2uak0p]xCdss8CCFrM[/youtube:gb2uak0p]

[youtube:gb2uak0p]YirYecNQ5s0[/youtube:gb2uak0p]
 

Latest posts

Back
Top