Joanne
Well-Known Member
Any news?
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Injured Young Rat
- Thread starter sonnyvincent
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sonnyvincent
Well-Known Member
OK, update:
Took her to the vet, who asked to put her under so she could check her out. She said there is not an abscess and that it's a sore but not infected. She said Olivia's teeth were too long so she trimmed them. Also they came in weird, which could cause long term dental issues that can be painful. Olivia despite eating has lost weight, down to 68 grams from 77 grams 2 weeks ago. The vet said she might have broken her jaw so to give her soft foods and maybe that will get her weight up. She's surprised the wounds are taking so long to heal and said she might have some underlying immune problems but that there is no infection. She said not to put anything on the wounds because rats constantly groom. But what do you guys think? I did pick up Neosporin and applied it yesterday to her neck sore.
Olivia had ibuprofen 18 hours ago and just now needed another dose. She hadn't been squeaking that entire time. I think all the excitement of the vet maybe had her sore but long after the ibuprofen would've worn off she was still eating. She's very picky on what she eats but that could be because some things hurt her to eat. Suggestions on soft foods that will provide her with proper nutrition...?
The vet didn't suggest the possibility of putting her to sleep so I guess I think that's a good sign? Or maybe she's following my lead.
Last thing, when I got the dosage off here for the Ibuprofen I think she weighed quite a bit more. Can whoever does the dosages adjust the ibuprofen dose to her current weight of 68 grams? I don't want to overdose her.
Thank you all. I guess I'm not ready to give up yet on her. Hope I'm doing the right thing.
Took her to the vet, who asked to put her under so she could check her out. She said there is not an abscess and that it's a sore but not infected. She said Olivia's teeth were too long so she trimmed them. Also they came in weird, which could cause long term dental issues that can be painful. Olivia despite eating has lost weight, down to 68 grams from 77 grams 2 weeks ago. The vet said she might have broken her jaw so to give her soft foods and maybe that will get her weight up. She's surprised the wounds are taking so long to heal and said she might have some underlying immune problems but that there is no infection. She said not to put anything on the wounds because rats constantly groom. But what do you guys think? I did pick up Neosporin and applied it yesterday to her neck sore.
Olivia had ibuprofen 18 hours ago and just now needed another dose. She hadn't been squeaking that entire time. I think all the excitement of the vet maybe had her sore but long after the ibuprofen would've worn off she was still eating. She's very picky on what she eats but that could be because some things hurt her to eat. Suggestions on soft foods that will provide her with proper nutrition...?
The vet didn't suggest the possibility of putting her to sleep so I guess I think that's a good sign? Or maybe she's following my lead.
Last thing, when I got the dosage off here for the Ibuprofen I think she weighed quite a bit more. Can whoever does the dosages adjust the ibuprofen dose to her current weight of 68 grams? I don't want to overdose her.
Thank you all. I guess I'm not ready to give up yet on her. Hope I'm doing the right thing.
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
.04 cc every 4 to 6 hours (infant ibu)
take her lab blocks, soak them in water until they become mush. Its a balanced diet.
take her lab blocks, soak them in water until they become mush. Its a balanced diet.
sonnyvincent
Well-Known Member
From what the vet described, this is how her teeth have grown in (found pic off internet but this is the way she described it)
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
She has malocclusion. Damn. Did your vet tell you that when a rat is born with malocclusion they are going to need trims all their life? Probably every 4-6 weeks at least.
Understandable her not gaining weight, or pawing at her mouth in pain...most likely her teeth were growing into her gums or sinuses. This causes pain and infection, which can give you lots of other symptoms. Poor love.
sonnyvincent
Well-Known Member
No she didn't say that. I don't have a problem taking her as often as she needs but would only worry because the vet said it took her a little longer than it usually does to wake up when she was sedated. She was unbothered by the ride to the vet and was chewing on a yogurt treat the whole way, so I don't think the trip itself is stressful.
I'll have to do more research on that condition, none of my other rats have had it.
I'll have to do more research on that condition, none of my other rats have had it.
dspch911
Senior Member
When I got my Sebasbian (RIP) his teeth were overgrown and then broke off. We gave him baby food, etc until he could eat hard food again. Try grinding up her block food and mixing with soy formula or ensure. He had to have his teeth clipped too and they never put him under for it.
Sheldon
Rataholic
I'm so glad for both of you that there is a clear answer now and that it is treatable. Also I commend you for being so vigilant and willing to cope with this for her lifespan.
Joanne
Well-Known Member
One of my rescues, Petunia, had a bad bite. She had her teeth trimmed under gas anaesthesia every two weeks. You have to be careful about clipping her teeth - Petunia's teeth were weak and would split when cut with clippers, so we gassed her down and used a Dremmel with a diamond disc. It was much easier to control and it was pain-free. My vet gave me a special price as it was required so often. The procedure itself only took five minutes. Make sure if your vet is sedating her that she is using gas only. That way she should bounce right back after the anaesthetic.
I'm glad she is still with you!
Is there any way for the vet to get an x-ray to see if her jaw was broken? If it was, then the hole could be from a jaw infection (osteonecrosis of the jaw).
I'm glad she is still with you!
Is there any way for the vet to get an x-ray to see if her jaw was broken? If it was, then the hole could be from a jaw infection (osteonecrosis of the jaw).
sonnyvincent
Well-Known Member
Yes she only used gas, but she did say it took Olivia longer to come back than it usually would.
She said we could do an X-ray but there would be nothing she could do if it were broken, that she would just recommend feeding her soft food, which I've begun doing anyway.
What would be the treatment if it were osteonecrosis? The vet did say that was a possibility but didn't say what she would be able to do for it.
How long should Olivia need the ibuprofen? I thought she was doing better but she started the squeaking, though not as loudly or frantically, again tonight so I gave her some. I'm not sure if I should wait until she shows the signs of pain or just give it to her regularly, if so for how long.
Thanks
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
Your vet didn't even offer metacam for a pain medication? If your boo has a broken jaw then its very warranted
Joanne
Well-Known Member
****Note: this is if there is actually a broken jaw.****
If it was a closed fracture and there was no contamination of the bone, then most times it will heal on its own, albeit not perfect.
Because it was broken by a bite, the bacteria were driven deep into the site of injury, and hence into the bone. Sometimes this will cause a regular infection that can be treated simply with antibiotics. Sometimes it will progress into osteonecrosis, osteo meaning bone and necrosis meaning death. So instead of the bone just being infected, it actually starts to die. Then the body not only has to deal with the infection, but also now has dead tissue it needs to get rid of. If the area of dead tissue is too large, then sometimes it needs to be surgically removed.
The concern with a tiny rat is that if the bone was broken and enough bone is lost at the site, then the ends of the bone remaining may not be close enough together to heal back into one piece.
I think if her bite is off, there is a pretty good chance her jaw was actually broken.
Where she is a young rat and the infection is probably a mixed infection, I am guessing the drug of choice would be Amoxicillin (Clavamox). I think she needs a dose at the top of the range, and for a long duration. Infection in the bone will take a long time to get rid of, and you don't want to leave any bacteria alive. Minimum 6 weeks, perhaps up to 3 months. She would also need a constant dosing of probiotics to keep her gut working properly.
Best case would probably be she has to have soaked blocks (soft mash) for the rest of her life, and regular tooth trims every 2 - 3 weeks.
This is just my opinion - I am not a vet.
I'm still hoping she can recover and you will be her caregiver and give her a happy rattie life.
If it was a closed fracture and there was no contamination of the bone, then most times it will heal on its own, albeit not perfect.
Because it was broken by a bite, the bacteria were driven deep into the site of injury, and hence into the bone. Sometimes this will cause a regular infection that can be treated simply with antibiotics. Sometimes it will progress into osteonecrosis, osteo meaning bone and necrosis meaning death. So instead of the bone just being infected, it actually starts to die. Then the body not only has to deal with the infection, but also now has dead tissue it needs to get rid of. If the area of dead tissue is too large, then sometimes it needs to be surgically removed.
The concern with a tiny rat is that if the bone was broken and enough bone is lost at the site, then the ends of the bone remaining may not be close enough together to heal back into one piece.
I think if her bite is off, there is a pretty good chance her jaw was actually broken.
Where she is a young rat and the infection is probably a mixed infection, I am guessing the drug of choice would be Amoxicillin (Clavamox). I think she needs a dose at the top of the range, and for a long duration. Infection in the bone will take a long time to get rid of, and you don't want to leave any bacteria alive. Minimum 6 weeks, perhaps up to 3 months. She would also need a constant dosing of probiotics to keep her gut working properly.
Best case would probably be she has to have soaked blocks (soft mash) for the rest of her life, and regular tooth trims every 2 - 3 weeks.
This is just my opinion - I am not a vet.
I'm still hoping she can recover and you will be her caregiver and give her a happy rattie life.
sonnyvincent
Well-Known Member
I guess I don't know what to do... the first vet has seen rats before and didn't really know what she was doing, this second one seems to be making an effort but a couple weeks ago when I suggested Olivia would need antibiotics for 6 weeks she scoffed at me. I don't know about going from vet to vet, without any real idea if I'm going to find someone any better. But I do think she still needs antibiotics, and something or pain (NEITHER vet would give her anything or pain, I'm not exactly sure why).
There is a vet who advertises on their page that they have experience with rats but anytime I've called that office (twice), they've actually referred me to another vet, which has a horrible reputation in my city and may have caused the death of one of my cats years ago as well as botched the surgery on another of my cats. But I guess if they are the only ones with experience I could try them, I'm just concerned about the quality of their care :/
As far as food, she DOES eat, just not enough. She picks and chooses too, and I don't know if it's related to how easy it is for her to eat that particular food, because she chooses banana chips quite often over things that are softer.
ETA: I've also noticed she's started to stink since I took her sister out. I let them see each other today and the sister hasn't been too rough on her. They both seemed depressed apart but I will separate them if I'm not around to watch them. But the sister didn't clean her. How do i clean her safely, I don't want to get her sick by bathing her
There is a vet who advertises on their page that they have experience with rats but anytime I've called that office (twice), they've actually referred me to another vet, which has a horrible reputation in my city and may have caused the death of one of my cats years ago as well as botched the surgery on another of my cats. But I guess if they are the only ones with experience I could try them, I'm just concerned about the quality of their care :/
As far as food, she DOES eat, just not enough. She picks and chooses too, and I don't know if it's related to how easy it is for her to eat that particular food, because she chooses banana chips quite often over things that are softer.
ETA: I've also noticed she's started to stink since I took her sister out. I let them see each other today and the sister hasn't been too rough on her. They both seemed depressed apart but I will separate them if I'm not around to watch them. But the sister didn't clean her. How do i clean her safely, I don't want to get her sick by bathing her
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Joanne
Well-Known Member
Is she on antibiotics now? An infection can make her smell really bad.
Do you think that either vet would be willing to speak to a truly experienced vet for advice? Perhaps a telephone consult could be arranged with one. There are several people on the Shack who have great vets. Mine are OK and willing to learn but not super experienced.
Do you think that either vet would be willing to speak to a truly experienced vet for advice? Perhaps a telephone consult could be arranged with one. There are several people on the Shack who have great vets. Mine are OK and willing to learn but not super experienced.
sonnyvincent
Well-Known Member
No not on antibiotics. I know the infection smell and that's not it. She just smells like she hasn't been cleaning herself, like poo. I cleaned her up and she smells a lot better now.
I will say though that the wound on her throat looks almost, open, to me? The vet said no Neosporin to the wounds but I dont think she can reach there, should I be applying some?
I will say though that the wound on her throat looks almost, open, to me? The vet said no Neosporin to the wounds but I dont think she can reach there, should I be applying some?
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sonnyvincent
Well-Known Member
Also, her sister was obviously depressed being moved away from her and hasn't been acting the same, so I let them spend some time together today. It was the 1st time all day Olivia got up and they ate and stuff but I had to remove the sister again because she had Olivia on her back and I was worried she'd hurt her :/ They both seem to want company but obviously I don't want Olivia's injuries to worsen. But emotionally Idk.
sonnyvincent
Well-Known Member
ok more bad news. olivias coat thinned in places and thats what I thought happened here. But to night she let me hold her on my lap usually she's up in my hair so I was able to pet her really good and examine her and I think its a tumor. She's been through so much now what?
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF_kVTm1TVI[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF_kVTm1TVI[/ame]
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
Agggh the poor little thing!!!
Unfortunately being young doesn't preclude her from bad health issues and even cancerous masses. I lost a very young girl to several terrible things all at once, that she developed at only a few weeks old before I got her. If you are curious, you can look up her story on the forum. Her name was Junebug.
The mass if its cancerous, would explain a lot of why she never gets better, is in pain, etc. Poor little love. It just popped up now?
Keep up her pain meds as best as you can, its the only thing keeping her feeling "okay", the rest is just a shot in the dark.
Do you ever see her eating hard foods? Does she seem unable to move her jaw? Or does she only eat soft foods?
Unfortunately being young doesn't preclude her from bad health issues and even cancerous masses. I lost a very young girl to several terrible things all at once, that she developed at only a few weeks old before I got her. If you are curious, you can look up her story on the forum. Her name was Junebug.
The mass if its cancerous, would explain a lot of why she never gets better, is in pain, etc. Poor little love. It just popped up now?
Keep up her pain meds as best as you can, its the only thing keeping her feeling "okay", the rest is just a shot in the dark.
Do you ever see her eating hard foods? Does she seem unable to move her jaw? Or does she only eat soft foods?
Joanne
Well-Known Member
I think she needs systemic antibiotics. Topical is no good. I can't believe the vet sent you home without antibiotics or pain meds. That is ridiculous.
Is it possible the bump is an abscess and not a tumour?
Is it possible the bump is an abscess and not a tumour?
sonnyvincent
Well-Known Member
The spot was there on the video Sunday, it's just an area that looks a lot thinner than the rest of her coat. It was only because of good angle & the lighting that it looked so obvious on last night's video. It really just looks like a bald spot, not a bump, until you feel it.
She does eat hard foods. She's picky but she doesn't always choose things that are the easiest to eat, and I have seen her chew and bite down on things like banana chips, one food she has consistently liked.
