Injured Young Rat

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OK this is what I got today...
Bradford & Raphael are close to 600grams, while Thayer is in the mid 500s.
The Baytril dosage is 1/4 of a 22.7 mg pill 2X a day each
The Doxycycline dosage is .55 mL 2X a day for Bradford & Raphael, and .5 mL 2X a day for Thayer. Suspension: 5mg/mL

She only sent 10 days' worth which mandates that I take them back in in a week and a half. Because I know it takes more than 10 days of treatment to kick these kind of issues. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it but my vet fund is depleted because I had so many problems at one time and didn't have a chance to add back to it. I wish they'd just say "Oh yes I know they'll need antibiotics for at least 6 weeks (or whatever it generally is) so here you go and if there's a problem or they aren't improving go ahead and call for an appointment". That would be too easy I guess :(
 
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And giving 600 gram rats liquid meds is not at all like with Olivia. She accepted her fate once I got it into the side of her mouth. These guys fought the whole way and I swear there was more doxycycline on their face than in their mouth. I have nobody to help me with this. :(
 
There's 2 main viruses to be concerned about.

1) Sendai virus - you will see respiratory symptoms within 5-7 days of exposure to a sick rat or the virus brought home on something else or even on you (the virus can live 3 hours off host). It often starts with a compromised rat(s) dying suddenly and unexpectedly. Then all your rats will start sneezing, some will crackle, some will wheeze, others will just have mild URI symptoms and some will just sneeze the whole time. I don't think I did up an article in 2010 when I encountered this one. Brought home by a sickly baby I named Edamame.

biter5feb7.jpg


2) SDA virus, where they will sneeze, crackle etc, but there are more specific symptoms like swelling in the front of the throat, and eye/facial swelling. I found only a few rats will have these much more specific symptoms. IF these symptoms show you you will need metacam or ibuprofen to keep the swelling and discomfort down, as well as eye drops to keep the eyes moist. If taken care of these rats will recover from these particular symptoms quickly. If untreated these symptoms can get very bad and the rat could actually scratch and puncture their eyes.

I did up an article on when I went through it in 2013. With pics.

http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26844

Antibiotics don't affect the actual viruses which shed in 7 days, but you have to medicate the secondary infections that the virus lets in. Its best to medicate ALL rats to help them get through this.

As for your baytril pills we will work out a solution to make it more palatable for them. You have 22.7 mg pills? How many?

You can mix 1 pill with 1 ml of a solution you can make up (half water, half Strawberry Quik liquid solution)...giving you a 22.7 mg/ml baytril solution. Keep the ratio like that, 1 pill to 1 ml. 2 pills with 2 ml's etc.
 
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I'm sorry I didn't respond.

I have the 22.7 pills, that break into 4ths. The dosage for each rat is 1/4 of a pill 2X a day.

Bradford and Thayer were taking it on a spoon mixed in baby food until today. Their symptoms are getting a little worse day by day, following Raphael. He wouldn't take it in baby food from the start. Now Dijon (who is in the cage with Bradford and Thayer) has symptoms (as of yesterday). He's still at the point where he'll take it in the baby food.

Medicating them is stressful for them and for me. I don't know how to do it differently, I have looked at videos online, etc. They just don't like the medication or the process. They all fight the doxycycline. Most of the time I've been able to do a good job but a couple times it seems there was more on their face, my hands, and what I was wrapping with, than what ended up in their mouths.

Raphael has been sick since Saturday. He barely eats but as of last night was eating baby cereal. He hasn't been drinking enough. I did the dehydration test and of now he doesn't seem dehydrated. He isn't very active and seems cold. I do have the A/C on but it's not on high. I'm not sure which is worse for him, being cold or the horrible humidity if I opened the windows? When I was giving him the daytime dosage of medication today his testicles were blue-ish, but that went away, can stress from struggling against me giving meds cause that? Because it was there then gone within a half hour.

Thayer and Bradford (age around 8 months) have been showing symptoms since Monday. Until today they were eating and drinking fine. They're still drinking that I can tell but not eating that I've seen. They rejected the baby food but maybe they didn't like the kind? I don't know I doubt that's it, because Dijon took it. Anyway, they seem to be following Raphael's pattern (they're where he was 2 days ago).

Dijon was the last to show symptoms, yesterday (Wednesday). Still eating and drinking.

The symptoms are mainly sneezing and runny noses. No pyrphorin in eyes but sometimes in nose. Raphael SOMETIMES has a little whistling sound. But very rarely. None have labored breathing.

I know it could be worse but after losing Croix so quickly I'm scared :(

Also I have no idea how this happened. NONE of them have been exposed to a new rat nor have we been in contact with other rats. The newER rats we have (got the last maybe 3.5 weeks ago) are female and in the same DCN as my other girls (sectioned off from each other of course), and none of the females have any symptoms. Wouldn't they since they're actually in the same room & cage, if that was the cause of the outbreak??

My theory is it's because I changed to a different litter, that possibly needed changed more often than the other kind. It was a couple dollars cheaper but not the bad kinds everyone warns against. Perhaps though the change in litter caused a flare up because either it needed to be changed more often than the other kind, or they had a reaction to something in the bedding. That still doesn't make a whole lot of sense but I'm baffled.

Unless it is possible one of the little girl rats brought something in and the girls are just lucky. We do seem to handle the babies and the boys a little more often. So I don't know. It could've been that.

I guess I need to not obsess but I'm really scared the girls will get it too. I read under 12 weeks probably won't, but I have 5 older females to worry about next.

ANYWAY< when should I notice improvement in the boys? Not just improvement but how about not getting worse each day? They arent going downhill FAST or anything but it's certainly not getting any better.

ETA: Raphael actually ate the baby food off the spoon tonight with the Baytril in it. Surprised me but he struggled like crazy and I just set it down in his cage while I did the other boys and then when I was done with the other boys, he had eaten all the baby food off the spoon. Thayer ate off the spoon again tonight too. Bradford is the only one who doesn't really seem to feeling very well. Raphael does sometimes breathe heavily when we're working on getting him medication but it goes back to normal once we're done. He's still doesn't seem to be drinking but again ate the baby cereal as well that I mixed for him. And passed the dehydration test. I know he's not drinking much though because the water in his bottle isn't going down.
 
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How big are your boys getting 1/4 a pill of baytril twice a day? Btw you can give the whole half pill once a day with food if its easier?

If they are near 600 grams they are being underdosed somewhat...

I really would be more comfortable if you bought the strawberry nesquik syrup (made up the solution of syrup and water) and mixed it with that...much more accurate dosing by weight, and some rats will take the meds right from the syringe.

As for where you got it? A petstore, the vet clinic is another one, the baby girls...etc...its very contagious.

I found it took weeks for them to feel better. A week while the virus is shedding, then another week or 2 of fighting the secondary infection. I usually medicated for a month.
 
Thayer is mid500s and the other three are right around 600grams. They're all getting 1/2 pill twice a day. I crush & sprinkle on a spoonful of baby food. They're now all accepting it that way (for awhile Raphael wasn't, and then one of the days 2 of the other boys just weren't feeling well and wouldn't eat it). So the Baytril isn't a problem except for the fact I'm going to run out and I can't afford to take all 4 of them in at once. I have to hope if I just take one she will send enough for everyone. Especially as they all seem to be starting to do better.

The doxycycline is a pain because they hate hate hate hate hate it and it really upsets them. I could mix with something but if they refuse it I either have to toss and waste those doses, or try and syringe feed it to them in food which means it would be an even larger amount.

Tonight they all seem to be stronger. Less sneezy but still have mild symptoms. They all fought hard with the doxycycline, which also is a sign to me they're feeling better. All took the Baytril in baby food. Raphael is finally drinking again, not much, and last night he failed the dehydration test. I got Pedialyte and mixed that with the baby cereal instead of water, hoping that will help him some.

I've read they should be on antibiotics for several weeks... if this vet wants me to come in weekly in order to get the medication I'm going to have to order online. Or I can try and mix myself from what I have.

My question would be is Cipro an acceptable replacement for Baytril? And are either amoxicillin or azithromycin an appropriate replacement for doxycycline? And would changing jeopardize their improvement? This would only be if she won't give me enough medication Tuesday to last for what they need. I have Cipro, azithromycin, and a crazy amoutn of amoxcillin (both my sister & I got it for tooth infections and neither of us could tolerate it, so we both have full bottles of 500mg).

Also... all girls remain symptom free. How long do I have to keep up the completely disinfecting between handling the girls & boys, and also keeping them apart? Weeks? Or just until the boys' symptoms are gone?
 
Thayer is mid500s and the other three are right around 600grams. They're all getting 1/2 pill twice a day. I crush & sprinkle on a spoonful of baby food. They're now all accepting it that way (for awhile Raphael wasn't, and then one of the days 2 of the other boys just weren't feeling well and wouldn't eat it). So the Baytril isn't a problem except for the fact I'm going to run out and I can't afford to take all 4 of them in at once. I have to hope if I just take one she will send enough for everyone. Especially as they all seem to be starting to do better.

The doxycycline is a pain because they hate hate hate hate hate it and it really upsets them. I could mix with something but if they refuse it I either have to toss and waste those doses, or try and syringe feed it to them in food which means it would be an even larger amount.

Tonight they all seem to be stronger. Less sneezy but still have mild symptoms. They all fought hard with the doxycycline, which also is a sign to me they're feeling better. All took the Baytril in baby food. Raphael is finally drinking again, not much, and last night he failed the dehydration test. I got Pedialyte and mixed that with the baby cereal instead of water, hoping that will help him some.

I've read they should be on antibiotics for several weeks... if this vet wants me to come in weekly in order to get the medication I'm going to have to order online. Or I can try and mix myself from what I have.

My question would be is Cipro an acceptable replacement for Baytril? And are either amoxicillin or azithromycin an appropriate replacement for doxycycline? And would changing jeopardize their improvement? This would only be if she won't give me enough medication Tuesday to last for what they need. I have Cipro, azithromycin, and a crazy amoutn of amoxcillin (both my sister & I got it for tooth infections and neither of us could tolerate it, so we both have full bottles of 500mg).

Also... all girls remain symptom free. How long do I have to keep up the completely disinfecting between handling the girls & boys, and also keeping them apart? Weeks? Or just until the boys' symptoms are gone?

IF you have virus there it sheds within a week, meaning that rat is no longer contagious...how long has it been now?

You can definitely switch to cipro and zithromax to keep them on it long term...they might like the taste of the zithro more than the doxy, as doxy is nasty and bitter to almost all rats.
 
Today is Raphael's 7th day, Monday will be Bradford & Thayer's 7th day, and Wednesday will be Dijon's 7th day. I'll be careful until Wednesday at least, just to be on the safe side.

Thanks for the info about changing antibiotics. I'll have to calculate how long what I have would last and then go from there. Is there anywhere online that explains how to mix cipro and azithromycin for rats and how to dose?

Cipro - 500 mg
Azithromycin - 250 mg

Rats: 3 at 600 grams, one at 555 grams

Thanks :)
 
Today is Raphael's 7th day, Monday will be Bradford & Thayer's 7th day, and Wednesday will be Dijon's 7th day. I'll be careful until Wednesday at least, just to be on the safe side.

Thanks for the info about changing antibiotics. I'll have to calculate how long what I have would last and then go from there. Is there anywhere online that explains how to mix cipro and azithromycin for rats and how to dose?

Cipro - 500 mg
Azithromycin - 250 mg

Rats: 3 at 600 grams, one at 555 grams

Thanks :)

I have PM'd you.
 
Gave last doses of Baytril/Doxy on Monday night and started the new combo yesterday. Two of them seem to have had a minor setback today. One has a running nose again and the other is doing a chirping sound at times. Could this be because of the change in medication, already having a relapse? Or probably just a coincidence? I was so hoping I could medicate them with what I have. I don't think the vet will let me pick up more meds without seeing them again, and I can't afford the office visit fees at the moment. :(
 
Gave last doses of Baytril/Doxy on Monday night and started the new combo yesterday. Two of them seem to have had a minor setback today. One has a running nose again and the other is doing a chirping sound at times. Could this be because of the change in medication, already having a relapse? Or probably just a coincidence? I was so hoping I could medicate them with what I have. I don't think the vet will let me pick up more meds without seeing them again, and I can't afford the office visit fees at the moment. :(

Don't stress. Just keep going, its a long haul thing. And both of those things often will come and go during the first weeks.
 
i dont think its a coincidence it started after the vet's meds ran out. To top things off i picked fleas off two of the boys last night. despite having treated the with revolution 2 weeks ago. i'm stressed to the max and i can't do this anymore. these are (with the exception of olivia) my sister's rats and she flat out refuses to help take care of them or any of these problems. re-homing isn't an option as when she first decided she was bored of them nobody answered the ad. Of course after that she got three more but what am i to do. i can't do this anymore. i have 3 cats and if something happens to one of them i have no vet money because i spent hundreds of dollars on rat vet bills. I have to hope for the best but I can't do it anymore. Olivia was my responsibility and now she's gone. I'm just going to have to hope for the best for the rest of them. Feel so sorry for them but I live on SSI I simply can't justify not paying my bills or feeding myself so i can take rats whose owner doesnt give a crap about them to the vet repeatedly. I get my payment the 3rd but if I use it on the rats my bills dont get paid. My sister has the resources to take care of the but she'd rather have her beer and whatever else it is that matters more to her than them. I'm exhausted with worry. I have to take care of the flea problem my cats are miserable and I've tried everything. But they go to the vet if I have to take an animal to the vet. Maybe that makes me a terrible person but the rats aren't even mine. The cats are and they're my responsibility.

Thanks for all your help. Wish I could do more but this is stressing me out way too much and nobody in my life cares, least of all the one who acquired all these rats to begin with.
 
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