HELP!! How to keep sick/dying rats comfortable.

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Even if they are mammary tumors, the majority of mammary tumors are not cancerous.

I know tumors can rupture and become infected, so you might want to keep your eye on it, but you can flush it and squeeze the pus out if you think it's just an abscess... pictures would really help, if you could.
 
there are a couples reasons i think it is an abscess. First it just burst tonight, and I compared it with other pics online. Second, they literally appeared overnight. Third, they do not feel attached at all- i can move them around however and Eloise has no pain from them.

here's a pic: Eloise was quite stubborn because she is used to beauty shots not eewy shots, i didn't tell her i was showing other people this unflattering pic.
 
It does look like an abscess, but it's very large... I would definitely get her on antibiotics ASAP, and flush that abscess out.

Also, tumors can be "floating" too, not "attached" to anything, and just under the skin.
 
Oh hon, I'm so sorry you & your girls are going thru all this trouble and you could do nothing but trust the vet and they are not always the most knowledgable, experience counts for a lot. I'm glad you're here, you will get good info. Still you will run into completely contradictory suggestions, nobody would try to steer you wrong here, but with ratties some things are trial & error, and the rules change according the the problems sometimes..
So, another opinion to confuse you....

First I would absolutely treat them for mites right off the bat. There's no harm in it even if you're wrong. You can find info here how to do that. You'll run into 2 schools of thought, mine is Ivermectin, the other is I believe Advantage or Revolution? You MUST scrub & rinse all their space really well, and toss anything that is not totally scrubbable (or else freeze it for a long time - is it a month or 6 weeks?). Mites can hide in crevices and wood is full of crevices. Ask for help if you need to.

Next is to get some food into Aylie. Again you run into divergence, rats are said to be lactose-intolerant but I've never experienced it, so yours may or may not have a problem. But if one is on antibiotics it's not only highly beneficial but but also suggested to give them yogurt to counteract the stomach troubles it can cause. See? Gets confusing. And best food guide goes out the window when a kid won't eat. Ensure or Boost are your best bet. They are good 3 days in the fridge after opening but you can pour a can into an ice cube tray, freeze, and use as needed. Adds weight, they take it readily (try different flavors) and it has all the vitamins & nutrition they need. Fattening foods are avocado (yes, it's ok for rats but not other critters), mashed potatoes, mashed yam, perogies, bananas, anything she'll take.

Use warm compresses on any lumps, burst or unburst. If one opens try to gently express any stuff in it by always putting fingers under and pushing up toward the opening, you don't want to push anything down into their body (warm compresses help bring it to the surface). A couple times a day. I always used 50/50 hydrogen peroxide/water to dab the opening after.

I don't think you said what antibiotic Aylie had? Baytril/Doxy is usually the best antibiotics to start with for respiratory problems, and others like Zithromax if they are not clearing up,but other problems can be better served with other antibiotics like Chlor-Palm. Many vets prescribe for a week or 10 days and often underprescribe the dosage. This can cause them to build an immunity that can keep them from ever getting cured completely. They really should do 2-3 weeks at least. Consult this: http://www.rmca.org/Articles/dchart.htm and share it with your vet. You can get good experienced suggestions here and hope your vet is willing to learn from what's worked from other vet's prescriptions. A lot of vets will resent you coming in with any questions or requests you learned online, but as long as you're paying the bill your kid's wellbeing overrides any threats to their insecurities about their omniscience.
I took Dona to the vet, vet was mystified, injected her with Ringer's and gave her an Rx for baytil, I told Jorats online what Dona was doing and she said PT right away, she was dead right. I took Summer to the vet when Baytril didn't work and asked for Zithro as lilspaz suggested, she refused and gave me Erythromycin, Summer died. I took Kelley to the vet, she suggested meningitis, doubt you will ever hear of a rat with meningitis here, it was PT. Other stories too... Vets aren't god but they do hold your kid's lives in their hands and sometimes you need to know what to beg for. This place has more knowledge than my vet does. And a lot more comfort & support when you need that.

Treat for mites. Absolutely give her yogurt if she's on antibiotics, give her Ensure or Boost & any fattening food she'll eat. Ask for help here & do your research to try to get the right things from your vet first visit (nobody can afford multiple visits while the vet flounders).
You've been thru the wringer. Welcome to the font of knowledge (chaotic as it can be) and loving understanding hearts & arms. I hope it can help you & your girls like it's helped me & mine so often..
 
It does look like an abscess...once the foul smelling pus was out, did it completely flatten out or is there still a large lump underneath?

Can you take a pic with the whole rat so we can get a better sense of size and location on your girl?

Also, tell us approximately where you live and maybe we can find you a real vet. :lol:

Revolution, either from your vet or ordered online, baytril for the URI and infection, and lots of love and care.

The abscess will need to be flushed twice a day minimum. I make up isotonic saline solution and using a medicating syringe I flush out the abscess cavity twice a day until it starts to heal towards the surface. If a scab reforms on top you will have to use a damp warm cloth to soften it and remove it. Or you can allow her to sit in a warm bath in the sink, but it can be hard to prevent them from leaving the sink, abruptly and with many scratches LOL
 
Ok, we really have to get this straight, people. Yogurt has very low levels of lactose and is usually fine for lactose intolerant people. So let's stop freaking out people who give their rats yogurt. The bacteria is a good thing and may help stomach upset. Cottage cheese, not so much.

Isabelk, it can be very difficult to find a rat knowledgeable vet, so don't feel bad that the vet you were using was less than perfect. It sounds like you've been working hard to make your ladies feel better.

Aylie may very well have pulmonary abscesses, she may not. They may never fully recover from these but with medical management can live long and comfortably. Some of my earliest issues with rats include pulmonary abscesses so it's the one thing I feel comfortable giving advice about. I had a mom and two daughters who suffered from them, and their siblings who were owned by other forum members had the same issues.
 
I asked one of my vets last night about rats being lactose intolerant and they normally aren't. Some may be but not all of them. I will continue to feed limited dairy myself.
 
My rats get yogurt, soy milk and some "greens +" with their fresh food twice daily. Never had any digestive upsets, they are all really healthy at this point. Moe is our old man who has resp issues, but they are nicely under control. Not sure about lactose intolerance but the sugars in yogurt are pre digested to be easier on the body. I always use unflavoured yogurt that is just milk and the cultures.
 
So sorry to hear about your girls - I won't bother adding to the confusion re: treatment options. Just know there is one more person sending healing vibes your way. ***hugs!***
 
lilspaz68 said:
SQ said:
Metacam is 1 - 2 mg/Ib twice a day.
Click to expand...

Tell me this was a typo Holly??

That converts to 2.2 - 4.4 mg/kg twice a day...

So a 425 gram rat would get .623 to 1.25 cc's twice a day? :shock:
Click to expand...

Not a typo.
Less can be given, of course but according to Debbie Ducommun (I realise many don't like her)
metacam works differently in rats then in dogs. She says that rats require a higher amount (what I have written) and because of their fast metabolism need it twice a day not once a day.
See viewtopic.php?f=20&t=19368&p=266751&hilit=metacam+dose#p266751
 
Hey Isabel,

Where are you in DC? I live in Manassas and my boys were regulars at the Eastern Exotic Veterinary Center in Fair Oaks.

Unless your vet is an exotic animal specialist, get your girls in to see Dr. Meredith Davis, Dr. Carol Richards or Dr. Anne Planetta.

These ladies are brilliant with rats and did wonderful things for my boys when they were alive.

Food-wise, I would recommend Harlan Teklad Rat Blocks and/or Oxbow Regal Rat food for your girls. These foods along with fresh fruit and veggies was what my boys got.

If you want to touch base, give me a holler and I will send you my phone number.

Hang in there and give your girls scritches for me.

Best regards,

Jen
 
I took my rats to another vet. Dr. Victoria Mary Hollifield in Gaithersburg, MD. She was absolutely wonderful. Very knowledgeable, even knew what breeds my rats were: Aylie is a Norwegian Silver, and Eloise is a mixed Irish/Dumbo. I brought a list with me of all the things mentioned on this forum, but I didn't even to bring it up while I saw her. She said everything right, and really cared for my rats. She and her staff were so friendly, even the stray/rescue animals, a small dog, and a cat, were friendly. They had a small Chihuahua female stray, who was brought in by a client. Her name is Bree, and she sat in the receptionist's arms, but when I reached out to pet her she crawled out her arms, got on the desk, and jumped on the counter and came right over to me! She was so precious, I just held her in my arms while I was being checked out. They're looking for an owner so if anyone is in the area, or knows anyone who is, she is really adorable and would make a great lap dog. The receptionist as well was very helpful, I had to call three times for directions- I took a wrong exit off the highway. I'm not familiar with the area, it is about forty five minutes away from me, but it was totally worth the drive and gas money. They were also really reasonable about expenses. She showed me what treatment she would usually prescribe, but decided which procedures weren't necessary to save me money. And she even deducted a professional courtesy from the bill. She was no doubt losing money, but as she said she cares about the animals; and it shows! The bill was hundreds less, for both rats, than the other vets I took them too. She cared for them so wonderfully, I really recommend her.

Aylie and Eloise are being treated for mites with Ivermectin. They are also both on antibiotics, doxy and baytril, for six weeks, and Aylie is on a small amount of painkillers, banamine, for only 5 days. They also have diphendryaminedrops in their water, and a probiotic benebact.
 
I'm so happy for you that you've found a knowledgeable & caring vet that you trust & are comfortable with :joy: Aside from our pets themselves that's the greatest gift a critter parent can receive! I hope your girl gets all better, you're obviously an A-1 ratty-mom, and both you & your kids deserve to just enjoy each other.
 
I don't think anyone has mentioned this, so now that you have your kids on doxycycline(yay for getting good treatment!) make sure you don't give dairy within 3 hours before or after the doxy. Calcium makes it less effective. =/
 
Thank you for the tip about calcium! My rats have never shown any signs of lactose intolerance, they have always loved little yogurt drops as treats and enjoy gently licking blobs of fruit yogurt off my finger. The drops in the water bottle have not seemed to deter them. I do know ratties are very picky about their water so I put another water bottle in their cage, and introduced them to it, with just plain filtered water. They didn't really seem to have a preference so I took out the plain one and they have been drinking from the one with the drops. Eloise had surgery on Friday, I was very worried about her but so relieved when I got the call that she had made it through just fine. So no more abscess or tumor, keeping her away from soy and any plants that increase estrogen, since she is older and may not survive being spayed so mature. She has three days worth of pain killers and iodine twice a day on the surgery sites. She has continued to eat and drink normally, and we now refer to her as our little Frankenstein, she has quite the battle scars. She started to pull out her staples but I called the vet and they said there was an extra lining of sutures on the inside of the opening so as long as she doesn't get to those she should be okay, just keeping an eye out for them now.

I'm still worried about Aylie though, she has kind of gone back and forth between seeming better and doing worse. First couple of days on the medication were very joyful, I was so hopeful for her, she was running around, drinking water, eating again. She even took one of her yogurt drops for the first time in months. But then, with no change in the medication, she started seeming more lethargic. She is less interested in food again, won't even eat the nutrical or benebact probiotics, when days before she loved it. She is so limp. Today I gave her a bath because she had diarrhea and it was all over her fur and nails, and Eloise bled on her tail, she was kind of a mess. She didn't resist or struggle one bit with the bath, which really concerns me because usually they put up a fight. And then during her bath, puss started coming out of her vagina. I looked it up online and found information about pyrometra. It said to treat with antibiotics and she is already on two, twice a day. So I am wondering if maybe A) she has some sort of infection and the antibiotics helped push out the infection, and will continue to treat it or if B) she is developing an abcess, like Eloise did. There is no blood, and it didn't really smell, not that I tried to smell it but I have read that the puss can be absolutely putrid, and when it came out there was really no smell at all. When I put her back in her house, her foot got a little stuck, and she didn't even make an effort to move it, I had to tuck it back under her. I'm really worried by this- she was doing so well and now it seems like she is doing worse than before she was on the medicine- any advice would be greatly appreciated!!
 
I would try to get an appointment with your vet tomorrow. Maybe the bacteria is resistant to those antibiotics. They started to work, and then once all the weak bacteria got killed off, they stopped working. If she's got pyometra, perhaps it would just be easier to spay her, if she's strong enough.
 

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