Deno the rat! *intros done + more seizures. :(*

[xio]

The seizures could be related to the bloody nose... my friend in Texas who rescues all kinds of animals and has lots of experience with rats told me the only time she had a rat with a bloody nose was one that had a brain tumor

Poor guy.

 

[victoria]

Seizures can go into a "status" state. Which means, one seizure after another. which is not good on a body.

Seizure are generally painless. They do not feel the seizure, but there is pain from the muscles and headaches after. I would be more concerned if there was a tumor growing that is causing these. that could be painful if it ruptures.

I would try to get him into a vet for an answer.

I agree. I doubt very much a vet could definitively diagnose and effectively treat epilepsy in a rat but if it's a brain tumour, he may benefit from a steroid or anti-inflammatory (not usually very expensive in my experience) to reduce/prevent them until the tumour grows too big to be able to help. I don't know how a vet could definitively diagnose a brain tumour either (other than an MRI which is too expensive) but a rat savvy vet can look at the symptoms and rule out other issues.

 

[mia9_28]

By brain tumor, you guys mean a pituitary tumor?

I've noticed that he often has his little hands in a fist... they're almost cramped...
Also, whenever I have him on my lap, he keeps sliding off to the side, almost falling. He's not very coordinated.

I've also been meaning to ask about something else: Does anyone know why he would shake his head? Like a dog would? His ears are clean and they don't smell bad... but it could still be an ear infection..?
I'll upload a video of him shaking his head and I'll try the cheerio test as well.

 

[mia9_28]

The first video is just to show him sliding off my leg... and I was hoping that he would shake his head, which is why it's so long.
[BBvideo 425,350:1x6jrpnx]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD-Voc_piNc&feature=youtu.be[/BBvideo:1x6jrpnx]

This video shows him shaking his head as well as his little fist at one point:
[BBvideo 425,350:1x6jrpnx]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtyCw_l9mL0&feature=youtu.be[/BBvideo:1x6jrpnx]

He seems to have passed the cheerio test.
[BBvideo 425,350:1x6jrpnx]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gg041w3YD8&feature=youtu.be[/BBvideo:1x6jrpnx]

 

[jorats]

How old is Deno? He looks like he's starting HED in the video, sliding off your shoulder. Which can also be a symptom of pituitary tumour...and head shaking is another symptom.
I've also had rats have seizures with PT or HED.
He sure is a handsome boy...

 

[victoria]

PTs are the most common type of brain tumours in rats, although there can be others. If his from paws are involuntarily stretched forward and he's making fists, that's an indication of PT.

I didn't think PT when I made my original comment, although I have had PT rats with seizures (usually towards the end) the nose bleed isn't a common symptom.

The head shaking also makes me think he could have an inner ear infection or a growth in/near his brain.

With PT, the sooner treatment is started, the more likely it is to help. The more the tumour grows, the more (brain) damage it does, and it's often not reversible. I don't see why that would be different for another type of tumour.

 

[mia9_28]

**added cheerio test video to the post above**

How old is Deno? He looks like he's starting HED in the video, sliding off your shoulder. Which can also be a symptom of pituitary tumour...and head shaking is another symptom.
I've also had rats have seizures with PT or HED.
He sure is a handsome boy...

I'm not sure of his exact age, but he's said to be around a year and a half old.
I can always take a video of him walking so you can see if he has HED? My boy Smokey has recently started HED withing the past days, and he can barely use one of his back legs anymore.
Yes, he's handsome... he has such a sweet face.

PTs are the most common type of brain tumours in rats, although there can be others. If his from paws are involuntarily stretched forward and he's making fists, that's an indication of PT.

I didn't think PT when I made my original comment, although I have had PT rats with seizures (usually towards the end) the nose bleed isn't a common symptom.

The head shaking also makes me think he could have an inner ear infection or a growth in/near his brain.

With PT, the sooner treatment is started, the more likely it is to help. The more the tumour grows, the more (brain) damage it does, and it's often not reversible. I don't see why that would be different for another type of tumour.

Any idea how expensive steroids are? I'm gonna call to make an appointment with the vet near me.. but sadly, she only has a bit of experience with rats.
I'd make an appointment with the vet in Fredericton, who has a lot of experience, but I'm only visiting for like a week on the 23rd and wont be able to go back until March break.

 

[mia9_28]

Here is a video of him walking:
[BBvideo 425,350:1pb9wdif]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2EpiAvtPY8&list=UUbEY81xF7tBa1RH5pKldRtg&index=1&feature=plcp[/BBvideo:1pb9wdif]

 

[victoria]

Any idea how expensive steroids are? I'm gonna call to make an appointment with the vet near me.. but sadly, she only has a bit of experience with rats.
I'd make an appointment with the vet in Fredericton, who has a lot of experience, but I'm only visiting for like a week on the 23rd and wont be able to go back until March break.

It can vary a lot from vet to vet and depending on the type they give you. I pay about $17 for a month's worth but I know if I can also get PediaPred from my vet and it's almost 3 times the price. You can also call your local pharmacy and ask how much they would charge and get a prescription from the vet filled there.

 

[SQ]

pred plus an antibiotic for pt
although threre are 2 drugs that may reduce the size of the tumor

pred or metacam plus either cloropalm or both baytril + clavamox for an inner ear infection

 

[victoria]

although threre are 2 drugs that may reduce the size of the tumor

Only if it's a pituitary tumour and they can be quite expensive in some areas.

 

[mia9_28]

So, I've found myself a little vet fund that I can work with. :joy:

Okay, so I need meds for the possible inner ear infection..
and I'm not sure to understand what else I would need? Metacam for inflammation, right?
I'm sorry if I seem a little dumb, but I've only dealt with URIs and mites so far.. :emb:
And I want to know exactly what I need, what are my options, etc before I go to my appointment Monday, seeing as my vet isn't experienced with rats and I'd like to be able to guide her a little.
Help? lol

 

[victoria]

We can't be sure if it's a tumour, ear infection, or something else. The vet will need to rule things out and decide what's most likely. (I've never heard of an ear infection causing seizures.)

An ear infection would require antibiotics and a steroid if there's a significant head tilt.

A tumour would need steroids to reduce the size and antibiotics to prevent infection.

 

[mia9_28]

We can't be sure if it's a tumour, ear infection, or something else. The vet will need to rule things out and decide what's most likely. (I've never heard of an ear infection causing seizures.)

An ear infection would require antibiotics and a steroid if there's a significant head tilt.

A tumour would need steroids to reduce the size and antibiotics to prevent infection.

He doesn't have any head tilt... he just shakes his head all the time.... but mostly when I have him on my lap, or I'm petting him...

And thank you!

 

[SQ]

Only if it's a pituitary tumour and they can be quite expensive in some areas.

Here in NB we are able to get one of the drugs and the cost isn't bad, but many rats are unable to tolerate the side effects.
It didn't help the couple of rats I tried it with as they could not tolerate it.
One of godmothers rats had several good quality months because of this drug ....

 

[mia9_28]

Only if it's a pituitary tumour and they can be quite expensive in some areas.

Here in NB we are able to get one of the drugs and the cost isn't bad, but many rats are unable to tolerate the side effects.
It didn't help the couple of rats I tried it with as they could not tolerate it.
One of godmothers rats had several good quality months because of this drug ....

Which drug and what are the side effects?

 

[SQ]

Cabergoline is suposed to be good, with few side effects but very expensive
Bromocriptine seems to bother their digestive sysem causing many to refuse to take it. But it is more affordable and worked well in the lab study.

Here are some links to threads about using Bromocriptine
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=22656&hilit=bromo

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=24452&p=338574&hilit=bromo#p338574

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=24547&hilit=bromo

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=26776&p=369989&hilit=bromo#p369989

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26974&p=373002&hilit=bromo#p373002

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=24026&start=60


Mamarat had good response with using dex + antibiotic with pt, I tried that with Rachael and it helped for awhile

 

[mia9_28]

Thanks for all the links!
It seems like rats really can't stand the side effects. :/

And what does pred and dex stand for?

 

[mamarat]

Prednisone and Dexamethesone, both are steroids.

 

[mia9_28]

Prednisone and Dexamethesone, both are steroids.

Thanks!