Could this be PT? Please help

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khalirats

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
188
Location
Wales, UK
My biggest boy Milo has developed some odd symptoms. First noticed yesterday afternoon, i was out when my dad called to say Milo didnt look good, was at the food bowl but falling about a bit. I rushed home and he looked okay, he was back in his bed so i got him out and let him wander around, he looked fine, moved fine, etc. I thought perhaps it was some breathing trouble since it had been hard work to get him to eat his meds for a couple of days, so i gave him some metacam, he was pretty placid so i squirted it straight into his mouth, along with his baytril. He went back to bed and slept after that, until the evening, which is when i noticed other things..

He got up when i put their dinner in the cage but he didnt want to pick up any food with his mouth, when he tried, he dropped it. He also doesnt want to use his front feet to hold food at all.

When i saw him doing that, i thought PT, just from what ive read on here before, but i have no experience with it myself. I did the cheerio test, he didnt hold it, he rested it between his paws and nibbled it that way, he's been eating treats the same way.

He hasn't been falling over or losing balance, he's walking/running around normally with flat feet, not on the knuckles, and not dragging his belly at all. He is sleeping a lot more than usual, but when he's awake he looks fine. He's still responding to my voice, he's drinking from the bottles, he's getting up and down the ramps of their cage just fine, but he does not want to pick up and hold solid food. He's happy to eat the mush i'm preparing for him.

I took him to the vet just now, but my usual vet (who is amazing) was not in, and the vet i saw was not great with rats. He tried taking his temperature with a rectal thermometer and he couldnt, Milo wouldnt sit still (cant blame him!). He examined his belly and looked in his mouth, but all he said was he would have to be put under anaesthetic to have a proper look which obviously carries risks. So all he advised in the end was to give him metacam for a few days and see how it goes.

I'm booked in with my usual vet tomorrow with one of my other boys for his breathing issues, so im going to take Milo back again to let her look at him.

I have a video of Milo eating some choc buttons that i'll upload asap.

Any ideas of what could be going on here?
 
Having the unfortunate experience with PT in our ♥ heart it sounds like you maybe correct, but it also sounds like your catching it early. You need to have your vet give Milo dex and bromo ASAP. The other people on this forum can explain that more to you. I was unable to get any vet to listen to me and my boy was not given the medication in time to help him. Good luck and healing vibes to Milo
 
If your vet will not allow you to give dex long term ....
bromo also works well with pred.

Remember to also put him on an antibiotics such as baytril long term as both dex and pred will impact the immune system.
Cabergoline is supposed to work much better then bromo and it has come down in price but is still expensive.

Godmother is a good one to ask about treating pt as she has had a fair amount of success.
Please see http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29024&highlight=bromo

I currently have my Seth on bromo, pred & baytril.
He had lost his ability to do pretty much everything over a period of 1 day, but is now much improved, is aware and can eat a bit.
Whether bromo or cabergoline work depends on the type of pituitary tumour.
And if you start a rat on one, you can not easily switch as there is a long waiting period between the two.

good luck
 
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If he has PT im worried about waiting until tomorrow for the appointment (its 5pm here now and the appt is 2:30 tomorrow). I have some pred tablets here, would it be safe to give him some? He had some metacam at roughly 2:30pm yesterday, would it be gone from his system yet? The dose of pred i was given for my other rat was half of a 1mg tablet, Milo weighs around 750g, would he need the same? He's already on baytril long term so no problem there.
 
khalirats said:
If he has PT im worried about waiting until tomorrow for the appointment (its 5pm here now and the appt is 2:30 tomorrow). I have some pred tablets here, would it be safe to give him some? He had some metacam at roughly 2:30pm yesterday, would it be gone from his system yet? The dose of pred i was given for my other rat was half of a 1mg tablet, Milo weighs around 750g, would he need the same? He's already on baytril long term so no problem there.
Click to expand...


I don't think you can give metacam and pred together - I believe I read somewhere about a waiting period between the two, but I could be wrong. Definitely go with the drug combos suggested, I did, but like I said I couldn't get them in time and I tried for weeks, not days/hours, and he was well into it before I noticed a problem. We had another terminally ill rat in the cage and I just thought he was depressed at first so I caught it really late. From the video (I watched it with my head turned) your catching it early.

If your interested this is his thread: http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27850
 
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I'll have a read through that thread now. I'll definitely ask for those meds tomorrow, if they need to order anything in for me it's ready the next day so it wont be too long before i can start him on them. The boys are all having their dinner right now, Milo is doing a pretty good job of eating his sweetcorn and i've seen him hold a few pieces with his right hand for a few seconds. I'm going to mush up some of the nuggets they have in their bowl at all times for him since he cant manage the solid ones at the moment.

I thought there might be a waiting period between metacam and pred since i know they can't have it with dex, i waited 3 days last time so it wont be long anyway before i can start Milo on everything :)
 
Best of luck PT is a dreadful disease for our ratties and I hope I never have to deal with it again - or any of us rat owners... We also found Curley had an easier time eating out of a shallow dish rather than a tall one.
 
Your little one should be fine until the appt tomorrow, since you are catching the symptoms early.

Bromocriptine helps for tumors that secrete prolactin (no way to test for that, all you can do is try), and I have been very lucky with Bromocriptine. Prednisone alone will help,some rats.

Good luck tomorrow!
 
My vet writes a prescription for the bromo or the cabergoline, and sometimes for pred. Then I get it at the drug store. the bromo and cabergoline come in pill form and I use a pill crusher (from the pharmacy) to grind up the right amount (sometimes use a pill cutter also from the pharmacy) and then mix up the powder with the other meds, a couple of drops of strawberry quik, a few drops of water and thickened with baby cereal
 
Thankyou all, i've printed off all the info to show my vet tomorrow. He's having his doxy in tablet form which i cut and crush, usually he takes it in fruit flavoured malt paste but it seems a little sticky for him to eat at the moment so he's been having it in organic fruit puree for babies instead, hopefully that should work for the new meds too. I'll update tomorrow after the vets, fingers crossed i get everything he needs. Oh and i've given him a shallow dish in the cage now next to the bed he sleeps in, he's having most of his food out of the cage at the moment though, his brother Dexter is super greedy and snaffles everything in sight!
 
khalirats said:
Thankyou all, i've printed off all the info to show my vet tomorrow. He's having his doxy in tablet form which i cut and crush, usually he takes it in fruit flavoured malt paste but it seems a little sticky for him to eat at the moment so he's been having it in organic fruit puree for babies instead, hopefully that should work for the new meds too. I'll update tomorrow after the vets, fingers crossed i get everything he needs. Oh and i've given him a shallow dish in the cage now next to the bed he sleeps in, he's having most of his food out of the cage at the moment though, his brother Dexter is super greedy and snaffles everything in sight!
Click to expand...


I noticed Curley developed swallowing issues, but that could of just been him, but you might want to consider liquid doxy. Curley used to face plant into his food at the end, my poor baby, and his cage mates would steal the food too. He needed many baths to get the ensure off him - I was afraid he's drown in there.. :emb: Good luck at the vet and be firm - this is your baby!!
 
Hi khalirats, I'm so sorry about your baby. My girly Matilda right now has PT, she was diagnosed OVER 3 months ago, and she is still living very happily. She has some bad days and seems to be going a bit downhill now, but she is still eating, drinking, coming out, playing, running to me when I call, loving treats and food and play. SO STAY HOPEFUL!

The meds given for PT are usually double combinations of bromocriptine, cabergoline, prednisolone(prednisone), or baytril. My girly is on bromocriptine and prednisolone. The bromocriptine is supposed to slow or stop the growth of the pituitary tumor, and the prednisolone lowers the swelling and reaction of the surrounding brain tissue, thus resulting in less pressure on the brain. That is why it is important to give both-- one actually "treats"(more like slows down) the tumor, while the other makes sure that our ratties are comfortable and do not have to deal so much with the symptoms. Because the prednisolone stops the immune reaction to the tumor, unfortunately, it also comropises the rest of the immune system, and the rat can get infections and such much easier. Therefore, it is important to constantly watch for signs of infection, or keep them on a constant "watch" dose of baytril, or similar drug.

My Matilda hasn't been on baytril, as we are still giving her the lowest effective dose of prednisolone and, according to my vet, it isn't necessary just yet.


Good luck with your baby!
He will be fine until tomorrow, don't worry.
 
I will keep an eye on his swallowing for any changes but he's okay at the moment, thanks dspch!

Thankyou Aida, sorry about your Matilda, glad she's doing okay at the moment though :)

I've just got back from seeing my usual vet, she was fantastic, she hadn't treated a PT rat before but she read through all the info i gave her. We can't get bromo here so i have a prescription for some cabergoline that im going to pick up from the chemist tomorrow. He's had a shot of dex, and i've got some more pred tablets. So everything i needed she gave me.

She worked out the cabergoline dosage as 0.45mg, she thought it seemed a lot, im wondering if anyone here knows if that seems about right for a 750g rat?
 
My rat was prescribed 1/2 pill of Cabergoline, given once every three days. I'm not home at the moment, though, so I can't tell you how many mg are in the pills we get here in Canada. It seemed a big dose, but it helped with no apparent side effects.
Our pills are really small, so I didn't want to risk losing anything to the pill crusher. Luckily the pills dissolve in a few minutes in a drop or two of water, and then they are easy to mix with something tasty.
 
Okay, the tablets im getting are 0.5mg so if the dose my vet worked out was correct he would need just a little less than a whole one. My pred tabs are 1mg and they are really small, so hopefully that dose is good.

And, UPDATE! Milo is eating from the normal food dish and using his hands to eat sweetcorn and peas!! He also came out of the cage all by himself for playtime! :happydance:
 
My heart goes out to you. My girl has a PT.
Stock up on baby foods! My girl goes thru them fast. She has been on liquid Prednisone & Baytril . Baytril off & on as preventative but Pred every day. She is doing well. Keeps her front paws fisted but now can manage to somewhat grasp hard foods with them. Manages to climb up in the hammock when I let her visit her daughters. :flowers2: - sending good rattie vibes your way:love4:
 

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