Bagel - Not Well at All :( 05/08

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lilspaz68

lilspaz68

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2007
Messages
24,427
Location
Toronto, Canada, Earth
Bagel came to me last night. I had spoken to unglued on PM's about him recently and she realized that he was beyond what she could do for him. I thought he might be a chronic URI type of boy, and hey what's one more rat to med for me right? :cheeky:

Then she brought him over last night. He looked not-quite-right for a PEW, and when we got him into the light I could see why. Poor Bagel was blue tinged. :( His skin is bluish instead of nice PEW pink, his lips, his ears, under his nose, and especially his feet were a dark blue. I knew we had some type of pulmonary thing going on. :( His feet scared me. Everytime I would see them I would get a shock through my body. I weighed him (277 grams!) and gave him high-end doses of lasix, fortekor and even some baytril/dex...anything to give him some relief!
Meet Bagel last night...
(the blue tinge under his nose is NOT shadow)
Bagel3may2.jpg

the scary feet
Bagelfootmay2.jpg

Ignore the pants, they are my Adia Ensure Feeding pants...she's a messy gal LOL
Bagelmay2.jpg

Bagel2may2.jpg


He was a bit stressed (new home, losing all his cagemates, etc) when I tried to put him back in his cage that night, so I took him and Adia (he likes my disabled little gal) and curled up on the couch. Adia slept in my hands and he slept on the pillow by my feet. We stayed like that til 3 am then he was fine when I put him back.

this morning he wasn't quite as blue, his extremities were warmer, but he was still doing the costal (abdomen) breathing, so no overnight miracles. :sad3:
The bottom of his feet are not as dark
Bagelfootbottommay3.jpg

and the tops are better
Bagelgootmay3.jpg

and he is the sweetest little man
Bagel4may3.jpg


Look at how he lies over Adia....
Sleepies
Sleeping.jpg

You woke us!
Youwokeus.jpg


I got him an appointment with Dr. Munn at 10:15 and off we went.
It looks like CHF or possible COPD (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease) so he is getting baytril, lasix, enalapril or fortekor, and albuterol treatments once I make up the inhaler thingie she wants me to make. She warned me the prognosis is not good and that we may lose him. But he deserves a shot at being at least more comfortable right?

I have picked up lots of Ensure, baby cereal, baby food, etc. I have to encourage him to drink and eat otherwise I'll be doing a little sub-q of the ringer's lactate (2 ml's only). :?

I think he's actually feeling a bit better tonight, and he and Adia have a new big one level cage coming tomorrow with Elizabeth. :D
Bagelincagemay3.jpg

Bagelincage2may3.jpg


Bring on the battle, I am ready to fight!!!
Warrior-02-june.gif
 
Good work, Shelagh! Bagel sure improved overnight, even though he is still not a great colour. Thanks for posting the photos, which will make it easier for all of us to detect anoxia.

Kisses to Bagel. :tumkiss:
 
Oooh a new word!
The term anoxia means "without oxygen"

I always think of cyanotic
Cyanosis is a blue coloration of the skin and mucous membranes due to the presence of deoxygenated hemoglobin in blood vessels near the skin surface. It occurs when the oxygen saturation of arterial blood falls below 85-90% (1.5g/dl deoxyhemoglobin).

Kisses to him for sure, he enjoys them. He bruxxed and boggled on me after being here for 10 mins... :heart:
 
No blue under that sweet nose in those pictures today tho eh?

I sure wish I could run my kids to you when I'm not getting the right answers from my vet Shelagh! You seem to know the right meds - or at least will try til you find the right one. You wouldn't be keeping any of my kids but I'd pay you for the meds and your time taken off to accompany me to a vet to convince them of what they do need to save their lives!

Best hopes for Bagel, he's a lucky boy to be in the best hands.

I know you could have saved my Summer :cry3:
 
Thanks for posting a topic Shelagh, though I never expected you not to. Feetsies are looking a bit better, so something is working.
also, if he ends up costing you more than I gave you, which I think he will, don't be afraid to ask, I still want to be responsible for his vetting. Enjoy the cream cheese kisses from my Bag-a-boo!!
 
Hey unglued. Big hugs to you! This has to be a very bitter-sweet heartbroken-heartsoaring thing for you. I'm sorry Bagel got so sick.
It'd kill me to put one of kids in someone's hands sick and not know if I'll ever see them again. And also to not be the one that comforts and/or heals them.
I've never had to do it, maybe more like never being able to do it. I'd have put my Summer in Shelagh's hands had I been able to tho. Me & my vet weren't making her better.

So many hopes & prayers going out to Bagel, (and Shelagh & kids are pretty much on the daily list), but for your heart too.
 
Well Bagel as rotten as he feels and his ucky breathing loves to explore the livingroom, he even will hop a bit and climbs anywhere he can. :mrgreen: He seems so happy when he's doing it too. :)

I had javakittie be nicely objective and took my standard daily feet pics for comparison.
She says they are much pinker!!! :happydance:

bagelfootmay4.jpg

bagelfootbottommay4.jpg


You can see how thin he is here...that dang breathing is awesome for weight loss :roll:
bagel4may4.jpg


bagel2may4.jpg


He's a really sweet cuddly man, he needs lots of love and reassurance right now
bagel3may4.jpg


and here he climbed the mountain of dirty laundry...I am The Sleepy King!
bagelinlaundrymay4.jpg


He doesn't like his albuterol treatments (Thanks Jen!!!) but he submits without too much fuss. He also likes baby food which is great! :thumbup:

No sub-q needed yet today. :nod:
 
Adia is his "job"...he knows she's not going to be around for long so he's okay with taking care of her. My dream is to have all my oldies together...:) I can pray he;s the Elmer glue that sticks them all together. :D
 
We are having a downturn right now, he's heaving and going blue again :(
I have given him some dex to see if that reduces any inflammation in his lungs

If that doesn't work I will try another albuterol treatment. :sad-p:
 
Poor little guy. He sure looks like a sweetie.

My experience with COPD and CHF is with humans, but the treatments are very similar to what you're doing with him. Too bad you can't give him a little extra oxygen in those times he's getting hypoxic.
 
KristyR said:
Poor little guy. He sure looks like a sweetie.

My experience with COPD and CHF is with humans, but the treatments are very similar to what you're doing with him. Too bad you can't give him a little extra oxygen in those times he's getting hypoxic.
Click to expand...

I would give him the breath out of my lungs if i could :sad-p:

I wonder if I could get a script for oxygen from Dr. Munn?
 
jorats said:
I wonder if mucomyst might help?
Click to expand...

A mucomyst neb (at least in humans) is generally more helpful in pneumonia and bronchitis than in CHF or COPD. It's more to break down secretions than to open airways.

Shelagh, if there's any way your vet can get you O2 for him, I'd do it. The meds will only go so far if he's not getting the oxygen he needs. Supplemental O2 is always our first line of defense on the floor while we figure out which meds to give for what's going on.
 

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