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I really trust my vet, she's amazing with my reptiles and she knows her stuff about rats. Even when she was on vacation she helped walk me through the process. I could bring her back, or, I dunno, bring her somewhere out of province to find another vet I trust. But I just can't afford any fancy treatments right now, at the moment I'm waiting for my next paycheck to buy more food for them and myself, so I'm kind of at my wits end. Mattiee doesn't seem to be in pain, but she's very slow, she spends most of her time sleeping and she's eating less and less. The babies will be five weeks old in a couple days, by then they'll be separated. They're already weaned, or at least I haven't seen them nurse once in the past week, and she started refusing to nurse them fairly early
I'll try to get pics up tomorrow after school, a couple of them just feel like they have hard bellies but they aren't sticking out too much, the others are very round and hard and they don't like their bellies touched. I'll see what I can whip up for them with the leftover formula I have left. Would other soft foods like banana and yam be a good idea?
As for euthanizing, I really don't know what to do, I'm at my wits end. The only option anyone is giving me without calling me horrible things is bringing them to the vet, which I could do if we all starved for the next month. I might have to bring them to my shelter anyways, or at least talk to them about their methods. I know my local pet store has very high standards for their feeders, I believe she called her thing a CO2 chamber? But if that would be more humane, she said she would help me if the shelter won't. Even if it's not perfect, or "the best" method, it's a way out for what would otherwise be a very slow and painful death, right?
I want this to be easy on the babies, but I need an idea that's a little more within my capabilities. I've spent every dime I have on these guys in the past month. And some people will point their fingers at me for taking on more than I could handle, but even though what I have for them isn't perfect, it's a far cry from where they were before. Where Mattiee would be pregnant again in the same cage as her daughter and her babies and the two older males, being fed cat food. I mean, at least Mattiee will be able to rest comfortably in a couple days when I get my hands on that cage. Everyone will be moved to the critter nation, and once Mae's babies are weaned her and Mae can be together in the smaller cage until Mattiee passes and Mae finds a new home. She'll be fed, she'll be comfy, she'll be warm and loved, and Mae, who she always goes to to cuddle and groom will be with her.. surely that counts for something?
And are you sure rats can't get the needle? I brought in my little brother with his sick hamster a few years ago, and the vet recommended euthanasia. The hamster passed away while she was out of the room and she returned with a needle. Unless this is just because she was a dog and cat vet?
I'm probably being snippy so I apologize, I'm just so tired and stretched so thin right now with this, I just want it to be over, with the babies in proper homes and my cage set up. At least next week I can start sleeping properly
 
It sounds like your mom has an infection, and she might have passed it on to her pups. Unless I see pics showing the typical MC bellies I cannot confirm it. Call your vet and ask how much to euth the suffering babies? Then tell us, maybe we can get the money to your vet for it.
 
These are really hard circumstances and I can imagine your frustration and worry.
A CO2 chamber is definitely not high standards, it's suffocation and burning of all the mucous membranes, the nose, eyes, throat. A horrid death for all small critters.
Do let us know how much your vet charges, maybe we can help.
 
An injection on a conscious small animal is not humane and will cause great suffering.

The humane way is to have a vet give them a needle
BUT They need to be unconscious first and kept unconscious during the needle and after the needle until they are dead. The gas/oxygen vets use for surgery is used to render them unconscious and to keep them unconscious.
Your vet can discuss this with my vet, lilspaz68s vet or Jorats vet. Most vets do not know how to humanly euthanize small animals.

Since you have a relationship with your vet, she is likely to be willing to put them to sleep and let you pay for it a bit at a time.

The mama also needs medical care from a vet who is experienced with rats or else a good vet who is willing to consult with vets experienced with rats (such as my vet, lilspaz68's vet, or jorats' vet)
 
I don't know if I could take your guys's money, especially if it's expensive :( I got home too late today to get a hold of my vet so I'll try again in the morning before school. I did call the SPCA, just to see what they'd say, and the girl told me not to bring them there, so that's kind of a red flag.
I got some pictures of Mattiee and her babies, hopefully I do this uploading thing right.
On a positive note, this time tomorrow they'll be in their critter nation!
On a negative note, at least three of the babies are really swollen looking. At first I thought they were just chubby, you know? But their bellies are hard. A couple other babies don't look swollen, but when I held them, their bellies felt like little hard balls, which scares me.
They did like the baby cereal with the formula, I soaked some of their lab block food in formula too and gave them some cooked yam tonight, Mattiee got her extra goodies separately (egg, her dry fruit/veggie mix, carrot, a bit of cheese as a treat)
Taking pictures of them was a pain, so bear with me. I think I took over 100 pictures but I'm only happy with a handful of them, most of them you can't even tell what's what. They just won't hold still, I couldn't get a picture of this one baby that's a little bit swollen tonight, so this is from a couple nights ago before I separated Mattiee for the dry mix (it's not her only food, just additional since she likes it so much and still eats the Oxbow)
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This baby is the worst, he was the first to balloon up and he's very sensitive right now so I try not to let him climb too much in case he falls
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Getting weighed, he's 53 grams tonight
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This baby just had a hard belly last night, but tonight he poofed out
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And Mattiee :/ she worries me. She ran around with the babies during excercise time for a bit but then she curled up on my lap and had a nap, which would of been nice if she wasn't looking so rough. I couldn't get it to come through, but you can see some patches of her skin through her fur near her back. The babies are being really good to her, when i went in tonight I found her lying down with some cleaning her fur and tail, they groom each other like crazy

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I'll try to get pictures of the ones who just have hard bellies, I didn't get any good ones tonight, but here are some from a little while ago
This guy
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And this baby with the eye patch
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Hopefully the pics work
 
And an update about how they're doing in general, I figured I'd share their tub set up with you guys and some pics of Mae's babies
(and tomorrow I'll have critter nation pics! I can't stop saying that, I'm so excited to get them all set up)
They're just in the five gallon while I clean their cage
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The tub (I put their shallow water bowls in there sometimes because they like to use them for washing, or just playing maybe)
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The cuddle hammock and tunnel I made them are big hits
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Pestering mom (this one's old)
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The PEW boy does look suspicious but I will wait to see tonight's current pics as sometimes babies gorge and swell up badly. Does he still want to eat and drink and move around?

As for taking our money, we have done this quite a few times...a bunch of us pitch in a little each and in the end its hopefully enough...most of us would be unhappy knowing that there were suffering babies and $10-20 from each of us could've helped that fact.
 
RockyGurly said:
This baby is the worst, he was the first to balloon up and he's very sensitive right now so I try not to let him climb too much in case he falls
tf71.jpg

Getting weighed, he's 53 grams tonight
6086.jpg

This baby just had a hard belly last night, but tonight he poofed out
nb5g.jpg

I think Lilspaz means this one. The puffy fur and the body shape looks off.
 
RockyGurly said:
I don't know if I could take your guys's money, especially if it's expensive :(
Please don't think of it that way! We love rats, and we don't want them to suffer. If we help with your vet bill, then any babies suffering can be put out of their misery.
We understand that you didn't plan on having so many rats, and you have been doing an amazing job taking care of them!
What I would suggest (everyone chime in here!) is that you set up an appointment with your vet to have all the babies assessed for Megacolon, with the plan being to euthanize any that are affected.
Once you have the appointment made, let us know who your vet is, the name the fund should be under for this appointment, and what the telephone number is for the vets so we can send money. That way the money will be there for the appointment.
We're doing it for the babies!
 
Oh ok, you had me worried there, the only PEW I have is the mini baby
I got a hold of my vet, it'd be 90$. Each :/ I'm sorry guys but that's just unrealistic, especially if it turns out to be all five, and then there might be others, and Mae's babies. Even if I could panhandle all that, I can think of much worthier causes 600$ could help out with
I'm going to call around tomorrow and see what my other options are :/ I don't want these guys to suffer, but they're not the only rats I have to think about right now.
On a less depressing note, I got everyone set up in the critter nation tonight, it's amazing, and I'll have some pics for you in a bit, I'm just up to my elbows in cleaning out the bathroom they were in. I'll also try to get some more of the babies, I've been giving the one really bad baby belly massages, just applying a little pressure and rubbing down. She seems to like it, and I can make her poop when I do it, so I think it might be helping with some of the pain at least
 
RockyGurly said:
Oh ok, you had me worried there, the only PEW I have is the mini baby
I got a hold of my vet, it'd be 90$. Each :/ I'm sorry guys but that's just unrealistic, especially if it turns out to be all five, and then there might be others, and Mae's babies. Even if I could panhandle all that, I can think of much worthier causes 600$ could help out with
I'm going to call around tomorrow and see what my other options are :/ I don't want these guys to suffer, but they're not the only rats I have to think about right now.
On a less depressing note, I got everyone set up in the critter nation tonight, it's amazing, and I'll have some pics for you in a bit, I'm just up to my elbows in cleaning out the bathroom they were in. I'll also try to get some more of the babies, I've been giving the one really bad baby belly massages, just applying a little pressure and rubbing down. She seems to like it, and I can make her poop when I do it, so I think it might be helping with some of the pain at least

YOu should look into the Woody Diet for your potential MC babies...they would have to live on their own and have a special diet but you could try. You can cheat and use baby food I believe in some cases but you have to be careful.

http://ratguide.com/health/figures/mega ... ure_2c.php

http://ratguide.com/health/figures/mega ... gure_5.php
 
I'm sorry, but if your vet is going to charge you $90 each to examine and euthanize a group of babies that were rescued, then he/she is just a jerk and in it for the money. (Sorry, that's just the way I feel.) The vets around here are willing to give group rates. The last time I went to the vet, she looked at my nine rescues, and charged me around $120 total.
 
Can you call around and see if there is another vet that could do it humanely?
Your vet either doesn't understand or is a complete assh***

They could be made unconscious as a group, kept unconscious as a group and given needles individually.
My vet charges according to time (# of appointment slots) - not by the number of rats, plus the cost of the supplies used.
 
Sorry I couldn't post last night, I was working all night
I made a bunch of calls today and the pickings are really scarce :/ but I called one of the really small local vet clinics (there are about 5, some are tiny) and the lady feels bad for me. She said she can do it for free, and the method she said was "A home made mini gas chamber with mixed gases and then a needle" does that sound about right?
Either way I'm going to have to bring them, I can't watch this anymore :/ three of them are really bad, they're waddling around slowly or lying on their bellies breathing heavily. The biggest baby (a girl) has barely moved since last night, I separated the three so they can be somewhere quieter and to give them their soft food alone, and I haven't found any poops in there. There's another baby that's almost as bad now, but he's puttering around normally, and two more that just have small hard bellies, I'm not sure about them but I think I'm going to wait on the two and see if they get worse or not. All their butts are messes, it's like they have a little ball attatched to them, and I've been cleaning their tushies but they still look bad
Just waiting for a call back to confirm I can come in later, hopefully today
Everyone else is adoring the critter nation, and I'm glad I started making stuff for it in the summer because it took forever to make all that and it still feels empty
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This is a vet at a vet clinic?

Many vets used a chamber to administer the gas.
Babies would be placed into it on something soft such as a fleece blanket.

Important ! The gas used needs to be the oxygen-isofluorane gas mix used by vets during surgery.
After they become unconscious, the vet tests to make sure they do not react ... such as no blink reaction

Then the vet injects the correct dosage of sodium pentobarbital using a 27 - 29 gauge needle. The injection is given in the lower right side of the abdomen, with the vet being careful not to get it into any organs or else to inject the liver.

Once injected, the baby is put back to continue breathing in the gas mix, so that it will stay unconscious until it stops breathing and its heart stops beating.
Once the baby seems to be dead, the vet will need to check with a stethoscope, twice over a period of several minutes to make sure.

Method sounds fine but please make sure it is done properly so it is humane.

I am very sorry this needs to be done.
 
IF you have babies that are showing very distinct symptoms of MC it would be best to let them go before the pain starts...the vet may not agree to euth for free the next time. I am sorry :(

The method sounds fine.
 
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