Alternative to wheels

[Emiko]

Hi guys,

I won't make a secret out of it: I'm an absolute rat wheel hater :cheeky: and I don't understand why people offer wheels to their rats.

I will try to explain why I think like that, as I said, I'm not a friend of wheels in a rat cage at all because of several reasons:

An appropiate diameter for a rat wheel would be about 90 cm (about 35 inches). That is huge and probably does not fit in any available cage.

Why is only this diameter acceptable? Because the long tail is part of the spine. Since the tail is bended in every available wheel, and who wants to have a bended spine? Those wheels are very unhealthy.

I've seen the outcome several times and believe me, it's no fun. The tail is curled (just like a piggy tail) and the rat can't hold it straight anymore. Also my friend who is envolved with the rat rescue has told about rats that have had terrible herniatic disks because they were running in too small wheels.

In Germany rat lovers believe, that wheels of all kinds are very dangerous for rats, 'cause they can get stuck in the wheels, hurt and pinch their legs and especially tails and we believe that the anatomy of rats, especially the backbone, is not made for wheels even if they have a very big diameter. In Germany people who have wheels in rat cages are almost frowned upon and wheels in rat cages are officially animal protection contrarious (b.t.w. hamsters may run in big wheels but rats not). Aren't wheels only a poor replacement for rats that don't get enough playtime outside the cage? I'm very interested in your opinions and experiences.

I used to have one rodent wheel that seemed to be quite harmless because it was made completely of wood, there were no bars where the rats could have stuck with their feet or tails.

But I was very sceptic because it only had a diameter of 30 cm which is about 12 inches. As expected my rats never used it although it was there for about 2 or 3 months. I gave it to our local animal shelter where some hamsters are now having fun with it.

I think that these flying saucers are an acceptable alternative although I'm convinced that my rats who can roam the room 24 hours a day (the cage door's always open) will never use the flying saucer.

Click here to see the "real" flying saucer:
http://www.the-white-pages-of-chinchilla-pictures.com/Flying-Saucer-Exercise-Wheel/

I got my flying saucer yesterday which is a much cheaper plastic version, here it is:

And live in action here:
http://www.chinis.de/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_19&products_id=47

I think that my recent rats will never use it, but probably new and young rats might be interested in it. Time will tell.

So far, my rats have just pushed the flying saucer from one corner to the other

Please, I know that I must sound quite educational But I really hate these wheels so much and I think that this flying saucer might be a good alternative. I don't want to judge anyone, I'm really interested in your experiences and hope you will share them with me.

:wink:

 

[lilspaz68]

You have the hatred of wheels that I have for those rollabout balls. Those are definitely not made for rats and very bad for their spine for one real reason. They have to reach up (and with a spine that arches upwards, doing this over and over could hurt them. UNLIKE the wheel they cannot step off when they have had enough.

Wheels should always be solid (no bars) or mesh, but even some people disapprove of mesh here (which is my rats preferred wheel). No injuries, no problems of any kind. I have put out a wheel for my rats during their Out time (my bedroom) and they will run on it even then, so I don't think its a replacement in that respect.

I have 5 mesh wheels (1 in each cage of runners), some rats run, others don't. Most rats if given a wheel as babies will continue to run in it into adulthood, some obsessively, and others will just go for a casual amble. I prefer wheelrunners myself as they end up the healthiest of my rats with a nice lean shape.

 

[jorats]

Someone here did try those disks and her rats refused to use it.
Yours is very cute and looks like it might be worth a try.
You make a good case, that's for sure. But I've noticed when mine run the wheel, they keep their tails on the side, outside the wheel. In all the rats we've kept (100+), not one had a crooked tail. But I'm definitely going to really watch them when they run to see if it may be a real problem.
Please let us know how they like that disk.

 

[Emiko]

Hi Jorats

yes, I will definately let you know. So far they've ignored it, but that's understandable because they don't know what it is.
I don't think that my rats will ever use it. The next time I get younger rats from the rescue they might be interested in the saucer.
My friend has got the expensive saucer and she told me that almost all their rats ignore it. After weeks (4 or 5, I don't know) one rat has discovered how it works and won't stop running in the flying saucer any more.

I'm very sceptic towards these wheels and flying saucers (but jogging balls are the worst :cheeky: ) Maybe I've just bought it to get a confirmation that these "instruments" are not necessary at all if rats have enough playtime outside the cage.

You said others here have tried this flying saucer. Maybe they can tell me more about it.

:wink:

 

[Emiko]

Hey lilspaz,

I didn't want to ignore you :lol: that happened accidently... :giggle:

Yes, these balls are much more terrible, I hate them even more because of the reasons you mentioned.

I can hardly believe that rats use these wheels. Mine would first on them and then sleep in them, probably destroy them afterwards :lol:

But it's a fact that some rats use these wheels and you even said,

some obsessively

I think that might also be a danger. Just because they use it often, doesn't mean that it is healthier.

Jorats said:

they keep their tails on the side, outside the wheel.

I think that it doesn't really matter if they keep their tails on the side or if they keep them up... they keep it in an unnatural way that causes problems to the spine.

:wink:

 

[jorats]

What is the name of your saucer? I wonder if we can buy it over here? I'd like to try that on mine. I've got some avid wheel runners, they might enjoy something like that.

 

[lilspaz68]

What is the name of your saucer? I wonder if we can buy it over here? I'd like to try that on mine. I've got some avid wheel runners, they might enjoy something like that.

I think its the metal one made for chins. Someone got it on Goose? Rats didn't like it if I remember and massively expensive.

I'm another one with the 80-100 rat range exposed to wheels. Never seemed to have spinal issues only the typical hind end paralysis that shows up late but it wasn't common at all.

 

[jorats]

I like that plastic blue one.
Godmother tried the metal one and not one rat tried it.

 

[Emiko]

Yes the metal one is for chinis. My friend bought this MUCH TOOOOOO EXPENSIVE :redhot: flying saucer.

I know that there are shop in the UK where you can get the cheaper plastic versions.

I bought the flying saucer in a German onlineshop www.mice-more.de
I don't know if they ship overseas..
In the German shop it is also called "Flying Saucer" ("Fliegende Untertasse" would sound a bit strange :giggle: )
Maybe you can get them at Ebay?

:wink:

 

[Emiko]

By the way, and sorry for the offtopic.

I'm glad to be allowed to have a different opinion here and even if I consider things critically. In most forums I could have packed my things already.

So thanks for allowing me to say my opion. You're great!

I think these flying saucers are almost like the wheels: some will use it, some won't. We'll have to try it out.

:wink:

 

[lilspaz68]

By the way, and sorry for the offtopic.

I'm glad to be allowed to have a different opinion here and even if I consider things critically. In most forums I could have packed my things already.

So thanks for allowing me to say my opion. You're great!

I think these flying saucers are almost like the wheels: some will use it, some won't. We'll have to try it out.

:wink:

Well this is The Rat Shack, we actually try to respect our members whether they have different opinions or not *gasp*

:laugh4:

 

[Emiko]

In other forums they probably would have already stoned me :giggle:

But to be honest, in German forums people that use wheels are almost stoned :lol2:
But most rat keepers in Germany don't even think about getting wheels.
In Germany it is generally admitted that rats shouldn't use wheels like it is generally admitted that rats love hammock and pipes...

:joy:

 

[jorats]

Isn't that funny and this is the first I've ever heard of the wheel being very harmful. I wonder if it's like that in other parts of Europe?
Are the injuries, spine damage documented? It's definitely food for thought.

(no stoning allowed) :cheeky:

 

[Emiko]

I'm not sure if it is documented somewhere, but rat rescuers often report it.
In England you have those who say that rat wheels are harmless and those who think that should be forbidden.

In Germany there's no certain law but a there's a document that lists all cage accessoirs and toys for animals that are meant to be

officially animal protection contrarious

(that's my free translation). Wheels are mentioned as well while big wheels (not the small plastic ones) are accepted in hamster and mice cages.

:wink:

 

[groundhog593]

I have heard European users who have tried to find wheels like the Super spinner or the Wodent, and end up having to order them from NA because they can't find it in their countries. Maybe it is related?

 

[Melissa's ZOO]

I think someone should design like a treadmill type wheel oval and long so that the rats entire body + tail can be completely straight. I think I might try to come up with something.

 

[Cityratt]

I think someone should design like a treadmill type wheel oval and long so that the rats entire body + tail can be completely straight. I think I might try to come up with something.

OH! like a bulldozer tread....

interesting...

 

[Godmother]

I was the one who tried the metal Flying Saucer. My girls were first afraid of it, then ignored it. I had meant to try it with my next batch of young ones, then forgot. It is now with Nefarous, who has chinchillas, and it is getting good use.

SQ has an amazing wheel. It's called the Extreme Critter Revolution, and it's supposed to be a hamster cage with built in wheels and tunnels. SQ removed all the hamster tunnels, and the wheel is really big -- 17" I think. Even her large males enjoy it. I have tried without success to find one of those for my gang.

Most of mine like wheels, and it does keep them slim and entertained. I was surprised to hear that some people think they're not good for rats. None of mine developed a wheely tail.

I would LOVE to try one of the plastic flying saucers the next time I have very young rats. Next time I go to England I will search for one. The plastic would be easier to clean. Metal is OK for chinchillas, because they don't pee all over the place. I found a place to buy a plastic one: http://www.mice-more-shop.de/index.php? ... &Itemid=26 but they are out of stock. I gave them my email in case they get more in, but I doubt that the shipping would be affordable from germany.

By the way, there are ratty treadmills. I enquired about them, but didn't like what I found out. They are made for lab experiments, so they cost a fortune (about $6000 and up.... more expensive than ones for people) and some of them have "features" like the ability to administer a little shock to a rat that decides to go too slowly or to stop. :gaah:

Emiko, little did you know that evil forces :evil: are gathering the rocks to stone you with for DARING to have a thought of your own! That simply isn't done.... :giggle:

 

[Emiko]

Hihi :giggle: Godmother, the link you mentioned is the same link I gave you. It's a German shop. It seems to be the first shop here in Germany that sells Flying Saucers because I've never heared about or seen them anywhere else. I guess this is a rather new discovery in Germany.

I know that the F.S. is already quite common in England, maybe you can get it there.

It's late, I'm going to bed now...

:wink:

 

[jorats]

Godmother, next time you go, get me one too!