What Food Do You Feed?

[Moon]

You are just going to have to accept the fact that rats aren't made to eat dairy. Humans are the only beings who drink milk past infancy and certainly the only ones who go out of their way to drink the milk of other animals. And cats being given a saucer of milk (stupidly) certainly don't count. It is something that we ENJOY, but not something most of us can eat in any great quantities without stomach upset.

Maybe yours don't suffer from severe cramping, but as rats are prey animals showing illness and weakness is not something they do readily for survival reasons. This is why so often their illnesses seem to come out of the blue, they DO hide things very well.

My rats have had yogurt and kefir, as some studies show the bacteria in them can actually aid digestion of lactose and many lactose intolerant people can eat them in small quantities.

 

[Bamboo]

Something people without access to lab blocks or people who just want to could try is make their own "lab blocks". I think somebody said something about putting everything together and baking it into a cookie type thing and that's definately a good idea. But another option (maybe) could be to make gelatin suspension cubes...I don't know how well that would work with rodents (needing to chew to keep their incisors down and all) but it's something zoos and research facilities have been doing for a long time now to feed certain types of herps, and recently it's been gaining a lot of popularity with private pet owners recently. Basically what you do is the same thing as the cookie idea: figure what the animal (in this case, rats) need in their diet. Map out the various percentages of fat, carbs, minerals, etc. and look for the recommended sources of these nutrients. From there, it's just figuring how much of what you need (All of this is A LOT simpler then it sounds...it just takes a bit of research, patience and basic math) Then purchase, blend/liquefy, add gelatin* (follow directions on package), pour into something like those aluminum casserole pans or something similar, wait for it to set, dice into cubes or whatever and freeze. It would probably be easiest to freeze the cubes a little bit and then take them out of the pans and put them in a freezer-proof bag and store them in that but whatever's easiest for you. If you make large enough batches you may only need to do this a few times a year, but once you've got the recipe down it's not really that much trouble. Just take out what you need, thaw and serve. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

*In place of gelatin, you could maybe use Agar agar. But I don't necessarily know how well that would work since it's plant-based, so it likely goes bad faster the regular gelatin. Then again, if you would rather give your rats something natural and are OK with make smaller batches more often, then maybe Agar would be preferable. Also, follow the directions on the package of whatever you're using since some foods (mainly citrus) will prevent the gelatin/Agar from setting properly.

Obviously this would be like lab blocks (if it's even a feasible idea for rats) and would have to be offered on a 80/20 ratio (but likely more, since some hard foods should be offered for the teeth reasons) The cubes may be nutritionally complete, but you still want to offer "real" food for the different flavors and stimulation.

Rachael, I saw that you use dog food in the other protein thread. Like I said there, I don't know what it's like in the UK, but it would probably be better to use less higher quality dog food as some or all of the protein, if you ever did something like this, rather then low quality dog food. I don't know if you have a dog or not, but if you do you could either switch it over to the higher quality food and just take however much you need whenever you make the recipe (which would likely just be a little bit, unless you're making a massive amount lol) If you don't have a dog, and you don't want to buy a huge bag of (possibly expensive) dog food (that will likely go bad before you need it again), then maybe you could get a few of the small, sample sized bags (do they have those in the UK?), so you'll only have what you need. (Sorry for using you as an example Rachael...I'm really not picking on you. I make some of my own animal foods too, so I know where you're coming from. I was just trying to put an idea out there without it seeming like it came out of nowhere, especially since I did think of it based on something you said...I'm also not assuming that you feed crappy dog food lol I was just say it in case anyone is feeding bad food they could see this and maybe switch to a healthier alternative with no extra cost to them)

Anyways, like I said, I don't even know if this is a good idea or not...it's quite possible that this a horrible idea that should be completely forgotten lol. I must admit, I try to learn about my animal's nutritional needs-and I DO know rat's basic nutritional needs-but I am far from an expert on the indepth dietary requirements of rats. I just thought I'd put it out there as a possible alternative for people who can't get lab blocks or for the more gung-ho of rat owners who want to make their own food.

I should mention that it is my dream to one day completely phase myself out of commercial foods and just make everything myself. That way, you know exactly what goes into your animal's (and hopefully your own) food. If you want to go all the way, plant a garden...use your own fruits and vegetables (it's a lot easier...not to mention cheaper)...kay now I'm rambling lol I'll shut up now

 

[jorats]

That is a great idea only though, not sure how the rats would like eating something like that. But definitely worth a try.

 

[Bamboo]

Yeah, I was a little skeptical as to how some of my animals would react to the cubes, but I was pleasantly surprised when they loved them. It's easiest if your animals like healthy treats, like berries or kale, so you can include the certain amount of their "treat" foods in the cubes...they can usually smell the yummy foods in them and eat them up with no problem. That being said, it probably would be a good idea to make a small test batch lol

 

[MissGuardian]

I've changed from versele laga's rat complete to oxbow regal rat + beaphar care +.. Just hope they will continue to eat it(they eat almost anything..)

 

[Petunia]

I hadn't thought about the issue of nutrients being lost in cooking, but I did something that I thought was a neat way to get around the picking and choosing that rats can do.
This was for a treat, NOT their staple diet, their staple diet was 2014 lab blocks

I cooked up some broccoli, tomatoes, spinach, peas, green beans, brown rice (I thought that rice was a good grain for rats, but maybe not?) and the juice that canned oysters come in, and then put this in the blender,
froze it in ice cube trays then bagged up the cubes.
In hot weather, I would give my girls a partly thawed block or two,
at other times I would thaw out the cubes and then heat them gently to just slightly warmed up.

I made up a different mix that had sweet potatoes in it and different veggies. I tried to use the veggies that have the vitamins and minerals that I see mentioned as being beneficial for rats. For example, they need more of certain minerals than people do (I think one was chromium?)

anyway, they loved these cubes! and there was no way to pick out the veggies they liked the best, because they were all blended together.

However, they were cooked. I don't know how much that affects the nutritional value, but I know that lab blocks are also processed in some way; it seems it's really hard to avoid processing of some kind for a blended mix.

I am wondering if you had a food processor, if you couldn't do something similar with fresh veggies?

make like a soup and freeze it? just tossing out some ideas.

I know that I originally got my diet information from the rescue where I got my rats, and I (stupidly) assumed that they knew what was best.

Six months later I had some very fat rats. :emb:


a question about soy: I read somewhere that there's a breeder who is feeding a soy based diet, I believe she says it is? it's part of some research because there's some belief that soy will help keep rats healthier-
but now I see recommendations to NOT feed soy.

so, um, who is right? :giggle:
or rather, where can I find studies or info on the reasoning behind both sides, pro and con soy?

 

[jorats]

I'm pretty sure that breeders which I believe one of them is only 16 years old are saying that they are not feeding any soy in the diet. They aren't saying why they don't want any soy for their rats, that's sometime I'd like to know.
In my own rats, I don't want any soy because of the estrogen found in soy. I spay my rats to remove all estrogen to reduce the risk of mammary tumours. By adding soy, it would be counterproductive. But in unaltered females, the soy is beneficial as it pushes the natural estrogen out of the way in order to reach the receptors so the risk is still there but just a wee bit less.

 

[RatsForever]

My rats love Harlan but since I can't always get it, they eat Oxbow which is not a personal favourite.

 

[ChrisK]

I just discovered this thread, and wanted to add something I think is very important. Because my poor little girl has just developed her second mammary tumor in just a few months, and I'm waiting to see the vet (tomorrow finally!) to discuss options, I've been looking at how can I help boost her immune system in the meantime. So of course, I've been looking at her diet.

In the process, I've found this information:
http://ratguide.com/health/neoplasia/mammary_tumor.php

The key paragraph of importance to this post is as follows:
"Studies have shown that of those factors the most important influence in tumorgenesis is diet. It is well known that caloric intake affects tumor incidence in rats. Rats fed ad libitum (free-fed) have lower survival and a higher incidence of pancreatic, mammary, and pituitary tumors than rats fed a moderate dietary restriction of identical diets (Boorman & Everitt, 2006). In addition to increasing tumor incidence, high caloric intake decreases latency and enhances tumor growth (Keenan et al, 1995). Tumors with endocrine influence such as pituitary and mammary gland have been most severely altered by ad libitum feeding (Boorman & Everitt, 2006). "

So, it's not only WHAT they eat, but it's also NOT free-feeding them and keeping their weight down.

 

[jorats]

That is true in humans as well, a low caloric diet is so beneficial. There was even a study done with rats eating only every second day. Now, I wouldn't recommend that but it's just really interesting.

 

[Britchenhauer]

Mine get Harlan 2014 and I try to feed veggies every day.

 

[Petunia]

I'm pretty sure that breeders which I believe one of them is only 16 years old are saying that they are not feeding any soy in the diet. They aren't saying why they don't want any soy for their rats, that's sometime I'd like to know.
In my own rats, I don't want any soy because of the estrogen found in soy. I spay my rats to remove all estrogen to reduce the risk of mammary tumours. By adding soy, it would be counterproductive. But in unaltered females, the soy is beneficial as it pushes the natural estrogen out of the way in order to reach the receptors so the risk is still there but just a wee bit less.

:emb:

oh that makes more sense, my swiss cheese brain gets confused sometimes

soy is also pretty high in protein, right?
I know it was very hard for me to wrap my brain around the much lower protein requirements of rats vs cats, having had cats so much longer.

 

[jorats]

Soy is high in protein, an excellent source of plant protein. But taking into account the other foods, you'd should try to keep protein low.