Tilley-Probably PT-RIP Sweet Baby

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fenshae said:
victoria said:
I was just reading about this and thought it may be of interest. Bromocriptine and Cabergoline (as well as Melatonin, but that can't be given with Pred) work on prolactin fed tumours and Lupron and Tamoxifen (the latter is pretty toxic) work on those fueled by estrogen. I have a female that is not fit for surgery but has a growing tumour right now and is getting Lupron (it's about $30/monthly injection for me) and I have not seen any ill effects- it's only been a week so i can't say if it's effective either. You may or may not want to try it with Tilley but it's another option to keep in mind with PTs.
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This is REALLY interesting...do they work on mammary tumors and such as well? I'm wondering if my vet might consider this as an option for any future ratties I get, if it's less risky than surgery....hmm.

And Tilley is looking so good now! Lookit her using those paws to eat!
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I did some reading on it (and it turns out Lupron is the drug my vet considered for Dazzle at one point, though we got her spayed, I just didn't realize haha) and yes, it is supposed to help benign mammary tumors.
 
fenshae said:
victoria said:
I was just reading about this and thought it may be of interest. Bromocriptine and Cabergoline (as well as Melatonin, but that can't be given with Pred) work on prolactin fed tumours and Lupron and Tamoxifen (the latter is pretty toxic) work on those fueled by estrogen. I have a female that is not fit for surgery but has a growing tumour right now and is getting Lupron (it's about $30/monthly injection for me) and I have not seen any ill effects- it's only been a week so i can't say if it's effective either. You may or may not want to try it with Tilley but it's another option to keep in mind with PTs.
Click to expand...

This is REALLY interesting...do they work on mammary tumors and such as well? I'm wondering if my vet might consider this as an option for any future ratties I get, if it's less risky than surgery....hmm.

And Tilley is looking so good now! Lookit her using those paws to eat!
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm using it on an old girl with a mammary tumour because as much as I'd like to remove it, she's not the best surgery candidate and I don't think my vet is eager to do it. I actually went in to get her an implant but the vet suggested Lupron because it will likely be cheaper than an implant since she's so old... I hope not, but she looks so old I really can't say either way.

Lupron is a human drug that is often used to treat ferrets with adrenal gland disease and I know it's also used for guinea pigs with ovarian cysts as well as rats with mammary or pituitary tumours. I don't know how well it works with rats an GPs (I think it's only recently that vets are trying it) but I have not noticed any adverse effects with Maggie, so it's worth a try for me. The only thing is my vet splits up human doses (about $300 each) and they have to be stored at -20ºC, so it may not be as readily available in clinics that don't have a lot of clients using it or don't have adequate storage. (I would guess the later shouldn't be an issue though.)

I'm glad Tilley hasn't deteriorated since the last update. Good luck getting her weight up, it takes constant vigilance with PT rats.
 
Thank you.

I went to the vet for a tooth trim, her teeth are growing much faster it seems. My vet said in dogs PT's can cause hair to grow longer/faster, and suggested it is possible that the teeth growing faster and thicker like that could be from the PT. She suggested my bf and I start trimming her teeth at home and doing it more frequently :(.
 
That really would not surprise if it was the cause. I know humans who have issues with the pituitary gland it can cause the gigantism in them. Those people you see who are 8 feet tall, it is generally from that gland and tumor. It causes some growth hormone to work overtime.
 
hopefloats said:
That really would not surprise if it was the cause. I know humans who have issues with the pituitary gland it can cause the gigantism in them. Those people you see who are 8 feet tall, it is generally from that gland and tumor. It causes some growth hormone to work overtime.
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Wow, that's interesting I hadn't known that! I hope the cabergoline helps that.
 
Hormones secreted from the pituitary gland help control the following body processes:

Growth (Excess of HGH can lead to gigantism and acromegaly.)
Blood pressure
Some aspects of pregnancy and childbirth including stimulation of uterine contractions during childbirth
Breast milk production
Sex organ functions in both men and women
Thyroid gland function
The conversion of food into energy (metabolism)
Water and osmolarity regulation in the body
Water balance via the control of reabsorption of water by the kidneys
Temperature regulation

Pituitary gland also makes endorphin to relieve pain and alter mood.

That is what the gland does in humans, the last would make sense why they dont feel pain? maybe it is kicking in overload of endorphins which helps them with it?
 
I'm not sure about that, it is interesting though.

I had forgotten to add, her mammary tumor is very visibly smaller. I have to feel for it and can't really see it.
 
New update! Her bad eye is back to normal size! I can't be sure but I believe it is the cabergoline as she had been on the pred for a while without fully improving. Her eye still looks bad from the injury (which I now assume happened due to her pt) but the vet says it is just heavily scarred, it probably will always be like that because of the healing difficulty with pt.

I'm still struggling with her weight right now and will let you all know how that goes. She is enjoying the yummy treats lol!

Also, pre treatment she was avoidant, she is the cuddle bug she always used to be :). That came with the pred though.

I'll post pics of her eye when I get home.
 
I'm giving her .25mg (half of a .5mg pill) once every three days (apparently it has a very long half life). I like that it is so infrequent, it makes it very convenient. The dose my vet found was .6mg/kg. I found this dose as well in an AVMA article:

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.239.5.656

Thanks yes I am very pleased. This hasn't been done much so I haven't really been sure what to expect and when. I know it almost immediately reduces the amount of prolactin, but I was unsure how long it would take for it to actually help any symptoms.
 
I had a girl on it but mine was liquid and oily. When vet did the postmortem the tumor was almost non existent. The treatment was also 400 dollars a month here.
 
mamarat said:
I had a girl on it but mine was liquid and oily. When vet did the postmortem the tumor was almost non existent. The treatment was also 400 dollars a month here.
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Yeah for some reason the compounding pharmacy said they could compound it but it would be something ridiculous like 2cc of liquid :shock: So we decided splitting the pill in half, crushing it, and mixing it would food would be easier than trying to force that down. I wonder why it was oily?? I read that from other people too..

Wow, that's awesome that it shrunk the tumor so much! I plan on doing a post mortem too, if my vet will take pictures, Lilspaz has kindly agreed to post them for me.

I hope you were able to get some quality time with your rat from the treatment.

Ouch, and here I was thinking $140 a month was high! I know mine is the generic, perhaps that is the difference.
 
Pics of the shrunken mam tumor:

56dd886d.jpg


Eye size:

464f7233.jpg


That scar tissue makes her eye look so icky :(
 
Thank you :).

I have not noticed side effects. I'm keeping an eye out though since stomach upset is one of the big ones.

I gave it in baby cereal and she ate it the first time, but I worried that she might eventually refuse (she's never been good about taking meds) and now mix it up in .3cc of strawberry syrup and force it. Luckily it is only every 3 days, and I'm pretty good at making it as quick and painless as possible.
 

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