LA
Well-Known Member
lilspaz68 said:
This is true, but on one side of it, with you these babies have a fighting chance at a good life, not as food or in terrible homes or even worse let out in the 'wild'
Sweetie & The Sugahs...Peecs 11/09
- Thread starter lilspaz68
- Start date
Help Support The Rat Shack Forum:
This is true, but on one side of it, with you these babies have a fighting chance at a good life, not as food or in terrible homes or even worse let out in the 'wild'
I do hope Sweetie and her family (the other males included) get through this and become as healthy as possible. You're doing a great thing, as I'm sure you know, by taking these rats in and helping them find homes. Having said that I know it's very overwhelming and depressing the number of rats needing homes and, even worse than that, living in awful situations.
I made a correction to my previous post, I actually meant 15 days and later into gestation rather than "the last 15 days of gestationâ. So your thoughts on e-spaying up until the last week would be spot on.
I made a correction to my previous post, I actually meant 15 days and later into gestation rather than "the last 15 days of gestationâ. So your thoughts on e-spaying up until the last week would be spot on.
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
I didn't know that with 7 or so days left the babies have their nervous system fully developed... They would then feel a horrible pain if not done right. 
My vet won't do any e-spay ever. She sees it as abortion and this goes against her morals and values.
My vet won't do any e-spay ever. She sees it as abortion and this goes against her morals and values.
Melissa's ZOO
Well-Known Member
8 babies for a tiny little mom that is a big litter. Can't wait to watch them grow-up. =)
I believe in e-spays as long as the fetus will not suffer. I had both of my boyfriends dogs e-spayed because he was careless and let them run with an intact male I just could not bear the thought of the awful lives they could have had if they were born especially since they were Pit Bulls.
I believe in e-spays as long as the fetus will not suffer. I had both of my boyfriends dogs e-spayed because he was careless and let them run with an intact male I just could not bear the thought of the awful lives they could have had if they were born especially since they were Pit Bulls.
Happi Wolf
Well-Known Member
:joy: I'm so happy to hear that Sweetie and her babies are doing good. I hope they continue to do well and thrive on the good care they are getting.
CardboardCastles
Well-Known Member
I got to thinking about it being like abortion too...
I automatically got the mental image of a young gaunt looking pregnant teen living in a shitty neighborhood going to her doctor and being told that she had no business having a baby so they were going to give her a third trimester abortion... Obviously I know thats -not- the case, but its the first thing that came to my mind.
But I was also thinking an e-spay that late....considering it was to be an "any day now" litter, the poor mother's little body already had to go through so much to nourish all those little fetuses, and then sending her into a surgery after her body had already been essentially drained by that? Poor little girl would have been lucky to live through an e-spay...
Should she have been pregnant? No. Was she? Yes. There's nothing that can really be done to change the past, so rather than fume about it, wouldn't it make more sense to accept, be constructive, and do better to prevent for those situations that we CAN?
I automatically got the mental image of a young gaunt looking pregnant teen living in a shitty neighborhood going to her doctor and being told that she had no business having a baby so they were going to give her a third trimester abortion... Obviously I know thats -not- the case, but its the first thing that came to my mind.
But I was also thinking an e-spay that late....considering it was to be an "any day now" litter, the poor mother's little body already had to go through so much to nourish all those little fetuses, and then sending her into a surgery after her body had already been essentially drained by that? Poor little girl would have been lucky to live through an e-spay...
Should she have been pregnant? No. Was she? Yes. There's nothing that can really be done to change the past, so rather than fume about it, wouldn't it make more sense to accept, be constructive, and do better to prevent for those situations that we CAN?
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
From the information we received the male was put back with Sweetie at the end of July...by my calculations that gave us 8-13 days (possibly more if she didn't conceive right away) ...plenty of time for the surgery to not be a risk to a pregnant momma. Most of their growth and weight is put on in the last week...which is when you don't have an e-spay done. When I finally saw her and got a good feel of her belly, I realized we were past that stage, and spoke to my vet and cancelled the e-spay.
SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
Shelagh, hope you enjoy the experience of baby ratties .....
It goes by so very fast,
looking forward to lots of pics.
Personally, I agree with jorats' vet ...
and I don't see the difference between a late pregnancy espay and culling
At least we know that your little Sweetie will not be having a third litter,
something for all of us to be very grateful about :nod:
It goes by so very fast,
looking forward to lots of pics.
Personally, I agree with jorats' vet ...
and I don't see the difference between a late pregnancy espay and culling
At least we know that your little Sweetie will not be having a third litter,
something for all of us to be very grateful about :nod:
Whether you're willing to get an E-spay in the beginning, middle or late stages of pregnancy is a personal decision, and the decision of your vet in the case of when they're comfortable doing it. As with all things, everyone is entitled to their opinion. My opinion is that Sweetie had just as likely a chance of dying herself from the labor than surviving it, not to mention how hard it's going to be for *everyone* involved if/when the pups pass because she's just not strong enough to keep them all. There are hundreds of other rats on kajiji, craigslist, oops litters, rehomes, etc.. who won't be getting homes because of these 8. I already love them to bits, and the idea of Zotz, the runt, not making it makes me want to curl up in the corner and cry. Would I rather she had never been born? Yes. If Shelagh had been able to get her even a few days earlier, we wouldn't all be having this conversation, because she would have been spayed already. But they are here now and we're going to do the absolute best we can for them.
These are not humans, with conscious thought and understanding of their actions and the consequences of those actions. To compare a female rat who was tossed in with her brother to some randy teenager is not only insulting to the rat but completely the wrong comparison. She didn't know she was too young, too weak, and so badly off she could be doing permanent damage to herself by getting pregnant. She's a rat with basic animal instincts to reproduce, as is her brother. A human is capable of making the decision to be stupid; Only humans are capable of spreading their stupidity and allowing innocent animals to suffer the consequences of a human's actions.
These are not humans, with conscious thought and understanding of their actions and the consequences of those actions. To compare a female rat who was tossed in with her brother to some randy teenager is not only insulting to the rat but completely the wrong comparison. She didn't know she was too young, too weak, and so badly off she could be doing permanent damage to herself by getting pregnant. She's a rat with basic animal instincts to reproduce, as is her brother. A human is capable of making the decision to be stupid; Only humans are capable of spreading their stupidity and allowing innocent animals to suffer the consequences of a human's actions.
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
We have MILK BELLIES! Even the wee runt Zotz is active and has a little milk on one side. They all look good and she's doing a great job!
Unfortunately I ate all my nails off today. :doh:
Sweetie is a very expressive little girl. She lets me know when she's a bit nervous with me and the babies. And when she settles I can pick her up. I took a pic and picked up a few of them to check. I gently scooped her up and let her go back to her babies. She went and checked them under the fleece then came back out and started bouncing around and climbing up on the door of her cage. She is now very happily esconced on my shoulder...she's smelt and licked my mouth gently and loves pats and cuddles. I gave her so many kisses for you all just now. :heart:
The boys came out today onto the couch and they were lovely!! The scaredy boy Lucas the tiny PEW crept away from his sleeping brothers on the end table, crawled up onto my neck and tucked his head there and let me stroke him....awwww. Dexter, Sweetie's male look-alike loves to lie on you and be patted and the PEW's love their cheeks being gently rubbed. No pics I was just so happy we did so well on our first real Out time on the couch.
Unfortunately I ate all my nails off today. :doh:
Sweetie is a very expressive little girl. She lets me know when she's a bit nervous with me and the babies. And when she settles I can pick her up. I took a pic and picked up a few of them to check. I gently scooped her up and let her go back to her babies. She went and checked them under the fleece then came back out and started bouncing around and climbing up on the door of her cage. She is now very happily esconced on my shoulder...she's smelt and licked my mouth gently and loves pats and cuddles. I gave her so many kisses for you all just now. :heart:
The boys came out today onto the couch and they were lovely!! The scaredy boy Lucas the tiny PEW crept away from his sleeping brothers on the end table, crawled up onto my neck and tucked his head there and let me stroke him....awwww. Dexter, Sweetie's male look-alike loves to lie on you and be patted and the PEW's love their cheeks being gently rubbed.
No pics I was just so happy we did so well on our first real Out time on the couch. 
Dahlas
Well-Known Member
Great news...I am so happy.
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
Sweetie would like to thank you for all your good wishes!!! :laugh3:
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
I think you've picked the perfect name for her. :heart:
Dahlas
Well-Known Member
She is so tiny....my goodness. She looks like a baby herself. What an adorable little face. :heart:
mamarat
Well-Known Member
Awww what a cute little momma. :joy: milk bellies.
Fidget
Senior Member
Lookit that face! Is she ever a Sweetie! And a good mom too, eh? Bless her heart.
Now that you can't do anything about it just enjoy those babies being babies as long as time let you. It's (hopefully) something we don't get to experience often, but I did 10 years ago and it's a very precious memory.
These babies were meant to be obviously, they got right lucky that they are where they are. Kisses to Sweetie!
Now that you can't do anything about it just enjoy those babies being babies as long as time let you. It's (hopefully) something we don't get to experience often, but I did 10 years ago and it's a very precious memory.
These babies were meant to be obviously, they got right lucky that they are where they are. Kisses to Sweetie!
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
Sadly, Sweetie's family is now down to 7...the little runt Zotz didn't make it. :sad3: Now we have to start pulling for the next smallest, Pez. she's in better shape than little Zotz was but she has very little milk belly.
Whereas the others have lovely lovely milkbellies! :joy:
The darkeyed girl especially
I did a preliminary sexing this morning, just for fun. My hats off to those people who can sex at 1 day old!! Look for ano-genital gaps? They are soo tiny there are NO gaps...hehehe. But I *think* I have 6 girls and 1 boy...I'll be curious to see if I am right, since I will start sexing them every day. I accurately sexed the Bronlings (my only other oops litter) at 3 days old.
Sweetie ran at the cage door and crawled out onto my hands herself...she's amazing! You'd never guess that 3 days ago she was a frightened shy little girl living in a Habitrail with her brother! Taking pics can be very difficult because she's always running up to my face and crawling on my shoulder or sniffing my mouth. LOL
I got one though :giggle:
I woke up to all 3 boys entwined with each other on their shelf....awwww :heart:
Whereas the others have lovely lovely milkbellies! :joy:
The darkeyed girl especially
I did a preliminary sexing this morning, just for fun. My hats off to those people who can sex at 1 day old!! Look for ano-genital gaps? They are soo tiny there are NO gaps...hehehe. But I *think* I have 6 girls and 1 boy...I'll be curious to see if I am right, since I will start sexing them every day.
I accurately sexed the Bronlings (my only other oops litter) at 3 days old.Sweetie ran at the cage door and crawled out onto my hands herself...she's amazing! You'd never guess that 3 days ago she was a frightened shy little girl living in a Habitrail with her brother! Taking pics can be very difficult because she's always running up to my face and crawling on my shoulder or sniffing my mouth. LOL
I got one though :giggle:
I woke up to all 3 boys entwined with each other on their shelf....awwww :heart:
