Summer's respiratory problems.

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Fidget

Fidget

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Messages
3,340
Location
Victoria BC
....continued from here:
http://www.jorats.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1364

Thankyou. Yes, she has not been thriving as well as her 3 sisters, she is smaller & skinnier. She takes a rest like that after exertion too.
She does seem awful when she's having a bad period and I'm so worried, but with the vet finding her chest sounding clear I'm confused, that's why I've been trying to find other people having the same issue to try to see if they find any answers.
I started giving her some ensure yesterday actually.
I think maybe I should abandon the benedryl trial then and go back to the 'big guns'?
 
I think that would be wise Fidget, it's obvious Benedryl is not what is needed. She's breathing very fast and not having an easy time of it. I wonder if perhaps fluid on the lungs? The heart?
 
Oh god... I do think something is very wrong :cry:
I haven't known if I'm overreacting or not since the vet said her lungs were clear Oct 22.. She did give me baytril and said to only start it if she got bad, and I did start again on Nov 4 as she seemed bad - hunched & especially noisy. On the 14th I finished, the baytril hadn't cleared her up, she was still having episodes so I figured it was not what she needed, and I started just benedryl, but she does seems to have gotten worse the last few days.

Perhaps her initial problem was an allergy thing or something and the stress of it has made myco kick in since she was at the vets? I don't know if the baytril was just controlling but not curing or if she's just gradually getting worse in spite of the baytril.....

I was going to wait with the baytril til I got her to the vet so she could see what's going on with her when she's noisy
I'll phone monday and can always get in quickly, I would like my regular vet to see her so she can better follow what's going on rather than the weekend emergency vet unless it seems like she's in an emergency situation.
I just listened to her chest with the stethoscope and it does seem as if her chest is not right too, not just her nose. So I better not take chances, I've just given her baytril again. I hope it doesn't mask things at the vet....

So what is best to ask the vet to supplement it with? Doxy or Zithromax? My vet has only ever given me baytril, even with Sahara who did get better on baytril but always relapsed and the vet put her on it for life but never tried anything else.....

Sorry to go on like this but she's so young, I've been so worried and unsure what to do....
 
I would do the combo of Baytril and Zithromax. Tell her about other people having great results with that combo.

Also, even if she doesn't do the noise, the vet should see it's dyspnea just by how her sides are heaving.

Discuss lasix as well, even if it's myco/pneumonia, lasix can help especially if it's fluids in the lungs.
 
Ok, I'll write that down and discuss it with her. Thankyou - so much! :hugs:
She is the most recommended for ratties in Victoria, but even your much-used for ratties vet is still learning about ratties from you every time and I'm sure mine isn't getting the experience that yours has from you & your mom & sister's kids and has a lot to learn. I hope she's willing.

I've been at a freaked-out loss of what to do before but never with one so young. Seeing her suffering something with so far to go yet is so painful :cry:
 
and don't forget that myco has to be treated for at least 6 weeks.
If the meds she is put on don't work, then she will need to try a different combo of antibiotics.
 
Thanks. I think it will come down to getting my vet agreeing to some new meds maybe as she's never prescribed anything but baytril (as I said, eh?) I will mention also that it is suggested she has a more long-term treatment, thankyou SQ.
Hard to know what she knows, How many vets have much experience with rats even if they are the ones other vets suggest you contact? Courses taken in their specific physiology is a whole lot different from actual experience and fact is not a lot of ratparents do vets like cat or dog parents I think...I think vets that see rats regularly are probably far & few in between and their experience comes from 1 or a few clients. Not like a vet that sees Jorats, Nickelrats & mamarats kids on a regular basis. I expect she has more clients due to their referrals too. I wonder how many humans come to her with their ratties that weren't referred by one of the RatShack family?
I wonder how many ratties my vet (or your vet) has actually seen?
 
Fidget,

Everytime I clicked the link I got a "reply to post" window. Can you repost the original link?

I am sorry to hear about Summer. :(

What are all her symptoms?
Does she have cold feet and possibly a blue tinge at the base of the nailbed?
Does she rock back and forth with the flanks sucked in? (costal breathing).
Hangs her head down ramps and over shelves?

How old is she? How many times has she been on meds? 14 days is a minimum for any prescribed antibiotic for illness (7 days for preventative abs after surgery is fine).

If that link was a video I'd really like to see it.

As for your vet having to go beyond her comfort zoner? Thats a tough one as always.
If you are able to print out these from Ratguide and show your vet it might help. Explain that http://www.ratguide.com was originally created with rat vets in mind, and later on was made more ratowner friendly. :)

Antimicrobials according to site
http://ratguide.com/meds/basics/antimic ... o_site.php

Baytril (enrofloxacin)
http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_ ... aytril.php

the RMCA drug chart
http://www.rmca.org/Articles/dchart.htm

As Jo said, I have found baytril in combination with Zithromax for a minimum of 3 weeks (I prefer 4) works amazingly well with severe respiratory. It is my Big Gun. I learned about this with my vet with my lovely sick girl Soma. Baytril...no go, Baytril/Doxy...nothing, Chlorpalm...nothing, Gentamcyin/Dexamethasone injected sub-q...small improvement and finally as a last resort did Baytril/Zithromax...woah!

:shock: Within 3 days marked improvement, and she cleared up and never got sick like that again. :thumbup: That was the beginning of a beautiful friendship. :lol:

With the Zithromax, you can tell your vet to give you a prescription, and you would go to your pharmacy to get it filled. Your vet or you has to tell them to split the dose and rehydrate only the 1/2. You would need to rehydrate the other half after 14 days. The Zithromax is only good for 14 days and you would be throwing out alot and having to buy a whole new one to last the course of the treatment for your Summer.
 
Thankyou for that great and really effortful info.
This is the origional video from friday
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1ZLdztUABI
and this one I just took this morning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDxaFFyquLY
As you can hear her sounds do differer at different times, this one more grunting, and sometimes it sounds more like chirping.

She's about 4 months. Doesn't seem to have cold feet or a blueish tinge to her nails. She doesn't rock or make a point of hanging her head over things. I started noticing porphyrin yesterday.

She had a run of baytril Oct 6-16 (started 3 days after she came). And another Nov 4-14. (just 10 days is what the vet prescribed) She'd been with a few people before she came and nobody heard noises from her, but I did the night she came. She came with 3 sisters and they are ok.

I'll make note of your zithromax instructions. Thankyou.
 
I like baytril & doxycycline. Doxy is a wider spectrum antibiotic and used in conjunction with baytril has worked wonders to bring back some very very sick rats for me. Rats that I never thought were going to make it. I will continue to use baytril & doxy, since it has always worked wonders and is so much cheaper than zithromax.

Like the others said, I would try at least 30 days of meds to try to completely knock it out.

Poor Summer. :(
 
Yep I would definitely get her on meds for 3 weeks minimum. The general rule is that you medicate til all symptoms are gone but continue to medicate for another week after that.

Did she clear up or improve on those 10 days of baytril each time?

I would definitely keep her on it until you see your vet and can add another med, don't worry about masking symptoms.

I will assume that first video (she looks so ill) was when you started the baytril and the last video was just a little while ago?
 
As has been already said, I would go ahead and try the Baytril/Doxy, or atleast the Baytril for a much longer period of time.

I also mentioned in the other thread about supplementing her some. Dunno if you saw it. Wee ones burn up their reserves so quickly, giving her a little extra won't hurt anything. The way her breathing is, it's probably taking alot out of her. A bit of baby cereal, some Ensure, maybe some Nutrical/Nutristat.
 
Thankyou both.

The first video was taken friday, the other 2 today, she had just ran up the bed and jumped up on the bookcase shelf in friday's, that's how she is when she exerts herself.

The first round of baytril she did not seem sick, just periodically noisy and the periods seemed lessened by the end of the meds. But they gradually got more frequent again (tho she still didn't seem sick), but when I saw her looking unwell & hunched & very noisy one day I started the second round (she seemed fine right after the attack tho).
She's been noticibly less active than her sisters for quite a while but I was told before she came that she was less 'full of beans' than the others, but it does seem she's got gradually less active.... She only started acting alarming sick just after she finished the second round.

The attacks have gradually got more frequent since she came Oct 3 with or without the baytril. Perhaps she's been going downhill the whole time but the baytril may have just been stabilizing her but not curing her?
 
Yeah it sounds like it was slowing things down rather than curing. Poor wee one.

Definitely get another med into her, she's too young to be scarring those ljngs.
 

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