? Rat no longer using hands to eat?

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JenD

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Jul 21, 2009
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Los Angeles, CA
Does anyone know what that indicates? I've got a boy who is over 2 and very obese. Lately, he has been hanging downstairs in a box all by himself in his huge cage, while his brother and buds usually hang on the top floor. He was always kinda aloof, but I think his eye sight is going and lately, when I give him treats, I noticed he no longer uses his hands to hold his food to eat. He leaves it on the floor and nibbles at it that way. Is this old age? Is it b/c he might be going blind? Anything I can or should do for him to help him out. He seems healthy otherwise...hmmmmmm...

Thanks guys!
Jen
 
Can you take a video? It sounds like he could have a pituitary tumour or had a stroke and isn't able to hold food. It could also be he is having too much trouble balancing because of bumblefoot or hind end degeneration too.

You should make sure you are making everything he needs available to him on the bottom level (water, soft food, house, etc.) and take him in for a check up so you can treat the neuro symptoms if that's what's causing his issues.
 
What is knuckling? I will look for that, but not sure exactly what it looks like. We are allergic to wood shavings, so I've always lined the cage in fleece to avoid bumblefoot. No notice of anything *wrong* - just something off. But what is knuckling and what does it indicate?

I am taking his brother in today for the absess on his face, which has gotten way worse. His teeth are now misaligned as it pulls :( this is so hard, guys. I will see what the vet says, but I am trying to prepare myself if he has to be PTS today. I did read the post you stared, Jo, about PTS and it was incredibly helpful. I will ask for the gas if he has to be put down, but I am hoping he's still in good enough shape to lance it. Tough day :(

Thank you both for your helpful comments, though. I wouldn't be surprised if Ben has a PT, b/c he's always been obese whereas the others are at a healthier weight and I don't see him pigging out more than the others, persay. Send some good wishes for my Luke today, though.
 
Mary, is there a link for your thread? Can't seem to find it, but I did search knuckling and see it's when they clench their fists and yes, he has been doing that quite a bit. He seems lost, as if he's blind or can't hear me too well anymore. :(
 
For many people, the first thing they notice with a PT case is just a feeling that the rat is "off"... knuckling at the inability to hold food are two of the biggest signs, along with the rat seeming out of it. It sounds like he could very well have PT.

Every case is different and they do often seem to pop out of the blue. The usual treatment for PT is steroids to take the pressure of inflammation off the brain. Many rats buy time with this treatment, sometimes for months. Many don't.

Hopefully you get some sort of idea at your vet visit today.
 
:( Yup, that's exactly what Ben is doing, Mary. Darn it. Thank you for linking the post. I will keep an eye on him. I just got back from PTS his blood brother, Luke, who had a terrible facial absess that misaligned his jaw. My poor Luke. I am devastated...my 4 boys were all the same age and they are all getting health problems at the same time :( I'll take Ben in to the vet, as well, to see if we can get him on some steroids. How long can they live with PT, if that is the diagnosis? Even with steroids? What other symptoms should I expect?
 
I just lost Haley today after 4 days. It depends. She just went lifeless and she couldn't move properly. It was like she was gone already. Lilspaz68 is very helpful on this thing. I don't know what I would have done without her.
 
Oh I am so, so sorry to hear about Hayley moving on today :( What a cutiepie she was and you can tell that she was very well loved. Thank you for LMK about your experience.

Thanks, too Joanne and Moon and everyone else who commented. I'll get a video if I can.

Hugs and condolences...
Jen (who is mourning her Luke today, PTS a few hours ago due to a facial absess that was just too darn big...) I hope Luke & Hayley are playing together on the Other Side while their mamas shed tears over their losses...
 
OK - so I took a better look at Ben. He does not use his hands at all to eat. He is mainly lying around, hardly moving and seems to be getting confused. It's like he's searching for a small, confined corner, but when he gets in there, he has trouble getting back out. He doesn't pick himself up to turn around. He doesn't really pick his head up much. He appears disoriented and confused and slow. He isn't really picking up his back legs too much when he does move, though they aren't quite dragging totally - just a big. He was making some loud noises when he was sleeping, which isn't normal for him, as he's never had respiratory issues. He's normally very quiet. I also had to help him go potty as the poops were just sitting there and not passing (sorry if TMI). But he did do a brux and eye boggle for a few minutes afterwards. He is eating, but just keeps it on the fleece blanket and doesn't use his hands at all. He is not knuckling now b/c he doesn't even lift his paws up off the ground. He is totally like a different rat. Not himself at all. Does this sound more like a stroke? I took some video so I'll try to put it together and post it. Thoughts?
 
When I think of stroke I think of one-sided problems. Ie loss of mobility on one side, holding food with one paw, circling, etc. Your boy sounds more like a pituitary tumor that is progressing rapidly. They end up not being able to hold food, and seem confused a lot. Sometimes they bite when they have never been a biter. I had to make my cage one-level for one of my girls because she was so uncoordinated. I'm sorry....
 
It sounds very much like PT to me as well. The sooner you can get to the vet and get steroids, the more likely they are to help. Enjoy all the time you can with him now, PT always takes them too soon.
 
Is it painful for them? And I hate to ask this, but do they just expire one day on their own or does it end up getting so bad that eventually I will take him in to be PTS? I'd like to be prepared as finding someone gone in the cage would be hard :( Thanks in advance for the advice...
 
There's a consensus that they don't feel pain with PT, they're too out of it. They tend to brux a lot, which is a sign of pain, but that seems to be involuntary. All of my experiences with PT ended with me helping them pass, they can get very bad and go a long time like that before they pass. (I lost a girl today to PT, she lost the ability to stand up overnight and I don't think she could voluntarily swallow anymore either. Had I let her go on her own she would have likely died of dehydration or starvation.)
 
Oh :( I'm so sorry to hear about your loss today. It almost seems unfair how short of a lifespan these wonderful furbabies have. Seems like just yesterday they scampering around playing together and now, they'll all old geezers, God bless 'em...

I am relieved that they probably don't feel pain with this. And we'll have to get him in asap. Our exotic vet is out of the country so I will see if one of the other vets can see him. I think you guys are right, though, he is progressing quickly. I just noticed this change yesterday amid the loss of his blood brother. Was hoping it was just b/c he was sad, but the fact that he can't hold anything with his paws and is so draggy and out of it means it has to be something physical. Though I bet with rats, they bond deeply to one another and I bet some do die of broken hearts...

Hugs to you guys and your precious little ones :hugs:

Jen, who is having a horrible week with all the loss and bad news :cry4:
 
I've had 3 PT cases in a row, one of them is still with me. It's really sad but it makes a huge difference to treat early, although even that doesn't help much sometimes. See if the other vet will see them and make sure he gets a steroid (you can check Rat Guide for dosages to make sure they are correct) and a broad spectrum antibiotic to prevent infection - the last thing you want is him to get pneumonia from the PT treatment.
 

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