Rat Mills

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When I got my first rat, the guy at the pet store brought me and my friend Alex into this little back room where they kept them and the feeders were in empty auqariums about 15 x 10 inches. Not only is that horrible size, but there were about 30 rats in each. Disgusting if you ask me.

At least this guy allowed photographers and such in to take pictures and see how he works. I've seen alot worse mills then this, I consider these guys lucky. Although, it's still not right.
 
pomegranate seed said:
I'm not sure if Petsmart still sells feeders, but a few years ago I witnessed it and wrote about it on another forum. I have not bought anything from Petsmart from that day to this and don't plan on it anytime in the future unless I can be sure they stop selling animals. You can read the old link if you like: http://www.lilratscal.com/forum/viewtop ... =+petsmart
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pomegranate - that link leads to the login page and most of us are banned from there. :laugh4:
 
:eek:fftopic:
As jorats said, it is a long story. A long, very complicated story.
Basically, a troll (Mr. Rattitude) joined and then destroyed a good forum. A lot of people, including the admin. of the previously mentioned forum, were deeply hurt. Unfair decisions were made. I blame the troll for causing all the damage and pain that occurred.
 
I am getting the impression that everyone here is against the breeding of rodents for food. Are you against this because you value the life of a rat or mouse more than the life of a snake? Is it because of the conditions in which they're bred? Is it because people that own the carnivorous animals are being irresponsible and feeding them live? Just confused and want some clarification.
 
Do these mills have any regulation? Then again, even if they do it's probably very lightly enforced. :no:
 
krasstal said:
I am getting the impression that everyone here is against the breeding of rodents for food. Are you against this because you value the life of a rat or mouse more than the life of a snake? Is it because of the conditions in which they're bred? Is it because people that own the carnivorous animals are being irresponsible and feeding them live? Just confused and want some clarification.
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For some of us it's all of the above, but for the majority it's the last two reasons.

Basically, yes. :wink:

That, and this is a PET rat forum.
 
krasstal said:
I am getting the impression that everyone here is against the breeding of rodents for food. Are you against this because you value the life of a rat or mouse more than the life of a snake? Is it because of the conditions in which they're bred? Is it because people that own the carnivorous animals are being irresponsible and feeding them live? Just confused and want some clarification.
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I personally value the lives of all animals equally - whether it be a person, elephant, cow, pig, snake, panda, mouse or rat. All animals should be respected and allowed to live the same way that we want to live - enjoying their freedom and without interference from humans. If a snake eats a mouse or rat in the wild then so be it, but having these fabulous creatures in captivity sickens me.
A snake does not belong in a tank in your home any more than a tiger belongs in a cage in your backyard - they are wild animals and should be allowed to be left where they belong. People who have snakes are forcing them to live a life that they were not designed for just to please their own selfish desires - regardless of whether the snake is captive bred or not (please don't call them domesticated because they will NEVER, EVER be domesticated) and as a result those people are also forcing rodents to be bred and used in a fashion that rodents don't want to be bred for either.
Stick to having domesticated animals for companions, there are plenty out there being destroyed every day that you will never run out of choice of a companion, and leave the wild animals where they belong.
 
Looks like one of the nicer rodent mills. I've seen pics and footage of ones that are really bad. I work at a pet supply store (Pet Valu) that does NOT sell pets and I would never work at one that does. I just want to say though in defense of some pet stores, that many of them give money to animal-related charities or work with cat rescue operations and adopt out cats on their behalf. These stores would also have to charge more money for everything from food to pets to accessories if they were to get all their animals from completely ethical breeders as they don't even profit much from the animals they sell that are from mills as is...this is why when you buy a pet they always try to get you to buy some special food or something. They hardly make money off the actual rat or rabbit since they are paying for food bedding, cages, staff to tend to them and sometimes for basic meds. One thing I've noticed at my store is that everyone always complains about prices and so if pet stores were more ethical, would people really not mind paying a bunch more for everything? A handful might not but the rest would go wherever is cheapest regardless of that store's ethics. Herein lies the problem with getting companies to change.
 
Vanessa said:
krasstal said:
I am getting the impression that everyone here is against the breeding of rodents for food. Are you against this because you value the life of a rat or mouse more than the life of a snake? Is it because of the conditions in which they're bred? Is it because people that own the carnivorous animals are being irresponsible and feeding them live? Just confused and want some clarification.
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I personally value the lives of all animals equally - whether it be a person, elephant, cow, pig, snake, panda, mouse or rat. All animals should be respected and allowed to live the same way that we want to live - enjoying their freedom and without interference from humans. If a snake eats a mouse or rat in the wild then so be it, but having these fabulous creatures in captivity sickens me.
A snake does not belong in a tank in your home any more than a tiger belongs in a cage in your backyard - they are wild animals and should be allowed to be left where they belong. People who have snakes are forcing them to live a life that they were not designed for just to please their own selfish desires - regardless of whether the snake is captive bred or not (please don't call them domesticated because they will NEVER, EVER be domesticated) and as a result those people are also forcing rodents to be bred and used in a fashion that rodents don't want to be bred for either.
Stick to having domesticated animals for companions, there are plenty out there being destroyed every day that you will never run out of choice of a companion, and leave the wild animals where they belong.
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I don't have a problem with people feeding their snakes mice or rats at all and I also don't have a problem with people having pet snakes. It would be cool if snake owners could get their feeder mice and/or rats from places where these feeder animals are not abused and treated like garbage...I don't know if many of such places exist...you might have to breed them yourself. Also, just so snake owning people are aware, you might want to consider feeding your snake mice only rather than rats if you feed live...rats have been known to kill the snakes or injure them in such a way that leads to infection and subsequent death. Frozen rats are a better option for you if you don't want to take risks...don't forget, rats in the wild that live in rural areas kill frogs for food. They know how to hunt, kill and defend themselves tooth and claw. Not every rat will pose a threat to a snake but every now and then the rats come out on top. The guy who works in the reptile dep't of a pet store told me about not feeding live rats to snakes. He's had angry snake owners getting mad at him because he sold them rats that killed their snakes.
 
I personally don't have a problem with any wild animal - snake, tiger, lion, crocodile - who kill and sometimes eat their stupid and selfish human caretakers.
Even more so I personally don't have a problem with them eating them more often and leaving the rabbits, guinea pigs, cats, mice and rats alone.
 
jorats said:
I asked Carla from the Fancy Rats forum for her permission to put up her post here. I think it drives the point home. This is what you support when you buy a rat from a pet store.

I study Animal Sciences in the Netherlands and part of my extracurricular activities consists of being a board member of a commission which organizes excursions to companion animal related companies. One of my co board members is into mouse breeding and, through another mouse breeder, she came into contact with a person who breeds rodents and rabbits for profit. In short, I've been on an excursion to a rodent farm.

Although I do not agree with the concept of roden farms, I do appreciate the fact that this breeder agreed to show us his company and was very friendly and open about any questions we asked, and we were allowed to take all the pictures we wanted. So for now, I will leave the ethics to you; I will present the facts as they were presented to me and show you the pictures I took.

This man breeds fancy mice, feeder mice, rats, hamsters (all common species), guinea pigs, rabbits, lemmings (not sure if that's the English word), degus and gerbils. He also had a few ornamental birds and a couple of owls. The rats are housed in pairs or in groups of three; lactating does are housed seperately with their young. The does are constantly pregnant or lactating. When they are done breeding, they become snake food; the same goes for ill and old rats or those that cannot be sold (deformities, etc). The rats are fed rodent blocks and a few extras like bread, cat kibble and some vegetables. They are kept on a Hemp type bedding.

He breeds all kinds of rats: double rex, naked, rex, dumbo, but also top-eared, normal fur, etc. The rats are of various colors but he is most proud of his blues, who are price winning. He showed a blue male that sat very quietly and contently in his arms; this rat was only handled once a week, during clean out, and even so it was sweet as pie. He particularly appreciated the character of blues, who he said were tamer (although I suspect this can be attributed to his 'lines' rather than the color as a whole). For new varieties, blood and upkeep, he obtains some animals from Czech, where prices are low but quality is poor; but he prefers rats from the UK, as that's where he could get the special colors and rats of good quality. The animals are sold mainly to pet shops.

And for now: the pics.

The hall. In front, in the white things are the guinea pigs; behind it are feeder mice and rabbits; in front on our right are mice, hamsters and gerbils; rats are in the back.

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The rat housings

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Very overcrowded, but clean! But the conditions these poor rats are in is too crowded! Stop the rat mills and help them have a happy life!
 

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