PT and making decisions

Fins us on Amazon
Advertise with us
Shop with us on Ebay
The Rat Shack Forum

Help Support The Rat Shack Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Sheldon

Sheldon

Rataholic
Joined
Nov 1, 2013
Messages
2,100
Location
North Texas
I could not find an active thread that was specific to discussing PT. None of my rat's have it because they are too young right now but it has been bothering me how many people have threads about their rats that suffer from this. As such I have read many of them and gathered a lot of data.

Please, please do not take this question the wrong way, because honestly it is just a question on my mind and not meant to imply anyone should or should not have made the choices they did for their unique situations.

It seems to me that even though there are some pharmaceutical interventions that can buy more time, that many of these little guys still may suffer until they are finally pts. I just wonder if it wouldn't be better and less heartbreaking to let them go at the first sign of a struggle?

This topic and the chance I may have to deal with it has been weighing on my mind of late.

Thank you for your genuine consideration and input.
 
Some rats do not respond to the medications, some respond a bit and some improve and their pt seems to go into remission and they have a good quality of life for some time.
Some medication reduce the symptoms by reducing inflammation around the tumour, but the tumour will continue to grow.
Some medication shrink the tumour.
Some tumours grow very slowly while others grow very fast.

So it depends on the tumour and the rat .... and sometimes it isn't pt but a different neuro problem.
You will not know if meds will help enough or be worth it until you try.
 
Honestly, I wondered the same when Zephye was confirmed with PT by the vet. (Though it was obvious beforehand, didn't think it would something else.) Even now I'm wondering if I could've spared him and me the heartache by making the decision 3 weeks ago. Since now he's doing owie stretches and I suspect an internal mass perhaps causing it. (Ugh this poor boy can't catch a break). But when he did respond to his medication I really did have some hope he would at least live a few more months. He was bright eyed, not puffy and excited for food again. He even was able to climb a little so he could play with his cage mate. His decline was rapid, it seems either the Tumor stopped responding to the meds or something else started to be at play :c To see him wither right now breaks my heart but there's not much else I can do anymore except help him across the bridge. I still don't know if it's worth treating PT, part of me says yes just to try even if it's an expensive treatment since you never know. The other part of me feels like it might be prolonging suffering. I'm honestly on the edge of both.
 
Most of us do no believe in giving up just because they were hit with PT. We all try the meds because the meds can buy weeks or months of good time with little or no issues. Gloria lived for 3 almost 4 months extra before she went down hill and her death was very peaceful. I much prefer letting our residents die in their home rather than on the way to the vet or at the vets office. With PT it is usually a quiet death. Most of us have taken these rats in from people who have given up already on them so we fight like hell to give them any chance they can get. Gloria has a thread on here for pt, shows her the first days that I found her and a week later looking like nothing has happened to her. I wouldnt give that up for anything for her, it gave her life for months more.
 
I wish it was a quiet death for Zephye. It's what I wanted for him since he was hit with PT. But the owie stretches I would think indicate to something else working against him in his body. At least he seems happy being doped up on children's Advil~ I do think you're right Hope. The few weeks I've had with Zephye definitely made me happier and I would like to think it made him happier too. I probably would still go the route of medication if this ever happened again. I doubt I ever wouldn't choose to.
 
I have treated rats in the past for PT without much success. However, my latest rat Dixie was diagnosed three months ago, and up until a day or so ago, was back to her old self. She fights her medication, so I wonder if she is not getting a full dose, or maybe she has entered her final decline, but no matter what, she has lived three more months happily and that is a long time in rat years!
 
Zephye said:
I wish it was a quiet death for Zephye. It's what I wanted for him since he was hit with PT. But the owie stretches I would think indicate to something else working against him in his body. At least he seems happy being doped up on children's Advil~ I do think you're right Hope. The few weeks I've had with Zephye definitely made me happier and I would like to think it made him happier too. I probably would still go the route of medication if this ever happened again. I doubt I ever wouldn't choose to.
Click to expand...

Have you checked for a penis plug? Many of us give another dex shot to start the bromo again once they start to decline again. Its a process that is continually repeated until they no longer respond.
 
Yes, I do agree with you and I think about that all the time. I promised our Curley (first rat to have PT) that his passing wouldn't be in vain, since we could not find a proper vet to treat him correctly. So when Kona got PT we tried and he improved for a very short time, but died a horrible death from the side effects of the medication. When Bumbles started showing PT signs last week we made the decision to let him go and not put him through everything PT brings with it, but he choose his own path and left us yesterday. Its a very difficult decision to make. You want them to pass peaceful, but on the other hand, you want to give them every chance you possibly can even though its a no win situation. You cannot win against PT it always takes your baby in the end. Its extremely heartbreaking and difficult to watch your fur baby going through it and you spend a lot of time telling them good bye, letting them know how much you love them, and that its alright to let go. While you hope and pray for the medication to start working you are constantly syringing food, water, and medication into them while they lose weight at a rapid weight and lay limp in your hands. I hope you never have to go through it, but if you do, I would support any decision you make.
 
dspch911 said:
Have you checked for a penis plug? Many of us give another dex shot to start the bromo again once they start to decline again. Its a process that is continually repeated until they no longer respond.
Click to expand...

Yes, I check about twice a day for one. He still does owie stretches regardless. S: I can ask the vet since we have an appointment for him to be PTS if he thinks he can do anything with a dex shot.
 
Zephye said:
Yes, I check about twice a day for one. He still does owie stretches regardless. S: I can ask the vet since we have an appointment for him to be PTS if he thinks he can do anything with a dex shot.
Click to expand...

Kona had a UTI while he had PT. What medication is he on?
 
dspch911 said:
Kona had a UTI while he had PT. What medication is he on?
Click to expand...

He's on Cabergoline, Baytril for a suspected mild URI (his lungs sound clear) and Infant's advil right now for the owie stretches.

This would be his 4th week on the Cabergoline and baytril.
 
Last edited:
Zephye said:
He's on Cabergoline, Baytril for a suspected mild URI (his lungs sound clear) and Infant's advil right now for the owie stretches.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm not sure about a dex shot with cabergoline, but I do believe it has been used. Either way the meds for PT suppress the immune system so its possible he has a UTI can you get him to urinate on a white paper towel or something so you can see the color of his urine. Can you smell it - does it smell bad? We had Kona on tramadol for pain. The PT meds are also hard on the stomach so we had Kona on pepcid. Unfortunately, he passed from a ruptured ulcer and internal bleeding, a bromocrytine side effect.
 
dspch911 said:
Well, I'm not sure about a dex shot with cabergoline, but I do believe it has been used. Either way the meds for PT suppress the immune system so its possible he has a UTI can you get him to urinate on a white paper towel or something so you can see the color of his urine. Can you smell it - does it smell bad? We had Kona on tramadol for pain. The PT meds are also hard on the stomach so we had Kona on pepcid. Unfortunately, he passed from a ruptured ulcer and internal bleeding, a bromocrytine side effect.
Click to expand...

He peed on me yesterday, and I got some on a tissue I was holding when I was wiping his penis plug. It smells like urine from what I can tell, doesn't smell any worse than what pee should smell like. He also smells like pee now since he doesn't move much any more and just sits in it. The color was a light yellow. Would the baytril have helped if he had a UTI though? Just saw it listed on the rat health guide as a medication that's used for UTI's.
 
Zephye said:
He peed on me yesterday, and I got some on a tissue I was holding when I was wiping his penis plug. It smells like urine from what I can tell, doesn't smell any worse than what pee should smell like. He also smells like pee now since he doesn't move much any more and just sits in it. The color was a light yellow. Would the baytril have helped if he had a UTI though? Just saw it listed on the rat health guide as a medication that's used for UTI's.
Click to expand...

Kona was on clamavox and doxy
 
Zephye said:
Do you think it would be a UTI then? Since his pee is either a light yellow or clear and he doesn't have foul smelling pee. (define foul? I mean how bad does infected pee smell?)
Click to expand...

Kona's was bad - made me gag! Doesn't sound like your guy has a UTI.
 
Zephye, It sounds like your boy has other issues as well, continuing owwie stretches are not a good sign. How's his pooping? Is he eating well?

As for me, I usually try the bromocriptine (not expensive really), and will jumpstart it with dex injectable. I try to just have them on bromocriptine alone so I can tell when its really working or not. If it's not really working you can try steroid therapy but this is very short term with some side effects, BUT whenever you get an improvement its like the rat knows it just got this huge reprieve and they are sooo happy.

I have had a few cases that didn't respond to bromo or dex, but I have also had some fantastic success stories.

Issa was my first using bromocriptine...she was the guineapig for my vet, myself, and the forum regulars. I documented the improvements for my vet and emailed them in.

Issa sadly came to me with issues (starving with malocclusion), and the issues are what took her from me, not so much the PT returning. At this time Dr Munn only necropsied her head, not the rest of her.

For Issa we got almost 3 months of almost-normal. :D Unf

My second successful case was Shade, Shade also came to me with serious issues. She was starving, and grew a terrible tumour across her chest (in-operable). Shade got 3.5 months of normal :D She was my first girl to actually go into heat while she had PT. :D She was put to sleep with some confusing symptoms that I don't think were PT-related. Shade's necro showed a lot of different issues internally.

My other great case was Malcolm, who developed PT suddenly at 26 months of age. He recovered on low doses of bromocriptine and we had 6 whole months before he left us at 32 months. :D He had outlived a lot of his rescue siblings :D

And now we have Buddy...when I got Buddy on April 17, we was already an olld boy at 28 months. He was a bit dozy, he wasn't really active or strong, just seemed kind of frail. I put it down to his age mostly and continued to watch him. Then he developed very obvious signs of PT...

May1414BuddywithPT3.jpg~original


He was diagnosed, put on bromocriptine, and its now been 3 months and he's still going "strong" for an old man of 32 months, and with a tumour on his side and HED.

Aug1914Buddy.jpg~original


As for the PT being painful, its not really. It looks terrible when those symptoms show but they aren't aware of it. You can try treating, especially if they are a younger rat it can really extend their QOL if you luck out and its the more common type of pituitary tumour that responds to it. :) Steroids should help with all types, but its much shorter term with often not quite the same benefits but still worth it if treatment doens't work.
PT rats (unless there are other issues involved) usually go quietly and I also often let them pass at home, cuddled in my arms.
 
lilspaz68 said:
Zephye, It sounds like your boy has other issues as well, continuing owwie stretches are not a good sign. How's his pooping? Is he eating well?

.
Click to expand...


I'm assuming the wet poops I find around are his, if so he's been pooping regularly. He's been eating well. He can still eat on his own, (mushed up oxbow) and has gained more of an appetite when I started giving him Advil.
 
Zephye said:
I'm assuming the wet poops I find around are his, if so he's been pooping regularly. He's been eating well. He can still eat on his own, (mushed up oxbow) and has gained more of an appetite when I started giving him Advil.
Click to expand...

Would your vet be willing to try him on steroids instead of bromo? It can be harsh on the tum at times, and he's not responding really well to it.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top