Oh Lord.... the boys have LICE!

[jennifervb]

While I'm trying to figure out just how in the :rant: my boys managed to pick up lice.... I have just invested in a steam cleaner and a lice comb (advice from my vet)! Fortunately, the steamer was on sale (a Bissell) so I got it for less than $100! YAY!!! :happydance: :joy: :bunnydance: :bunnydance: :bunnydance: :bunnydance: :joy: :happydance:

It appears as if the lice is breeding on poor, little Albert, because he has a serious scab on his back. Dr. Richards told me that she was able to find lice eggs on Albert but not on the others. :shock:

They are all being treated with ivermectin and are supposed to stay in the cage for the next 6 weeks!!!! I told her that this would not work so we have agreed that the boys can run in the bathroom. I can mop the floors afterwards and there should be no problem.

Needless to say, all boxes have been tossed out and their wooden toys are all in the freezer for 48 hours.

I am going to steam clean the living room carpets this evening and then again tomorrow to kill any, nasty, bastards in the shag! :stickpoke: I will also be combing the boys to rid their fur of eggs and lice. :sick2:

My poor little noses!!! :hugs:

Dr. Richards told me that the boys were so brave when they got their shots! No squeaks, jumps or bites from anyone! :heart:

Their appointment was at 11:30 so, of course, I had to wake them up. They are all still dozing so I will leave them in the cage tonight. Dr. Richards said that the ivermectin can make them tired for a day or two.

If anyone has any advice on anything else I can be doing for my boys, please let me know! Should I get flea/lice powder for the carpets as well?

This is the first time something like this has happened, so I am not sure if I am doing everything I can to help rid them of these hideous pests.

Of course, no one can blame me for having taken comfort in a Five Guys Cheeseburger after such a day... :laugh4:

 

[Dahlas]

Don't panick....it is not a bad as you think. Revolution will kill the lice...I would use that works faster...no need to keep them confind for 6 weeks...and they are species specific....won't go on people.....

Oh I just re-read your post...they have already had shots...I don't know anything about that stuff.
I know revolution will kill lice....we usually re-treat in a month.......

 

[jennifervb]

Don't panick....it is not a bad as you think. Revolution will kill the lice...I would use that works faster...no need to keep them confind for 6 weeks...and they are species specific....won't go on people.....

Oh I just re-read your post...they have already had shots...I don't know anything about that stuff.
I know revolution will kill lice....we usually re-treat in a month.......

Thanks Dahlas!!!!

I read up on lice in Debbie D's book and she recommended oral ivermectin for treatment. She also said a lice spray for birds and rodents would be good. I will see if I can find somewhere to buy it!

I will ask Dr. Richards about Revolution!

Thanks Sweetie!!! I feel much better. :hugs: :heart: :rose:

 

[Fidget]

Ick. I don't think I've contended with lice yet, I just start the Ivermectin when it get obvious the owies aren't from playing. Always assumed mites but if they can get lice living inside and have them cleared up with the same med then who knows what unwanted house guests we've had?
I hate that they get these bugs, how does that happen? I use newspaper but I guess if one little prego bug survives processing to newspaper, or rides into the newspaper place on the clothes of some CEO who was out checking the logging stage.... What I don't understand is that it's so prevalent in our kids and they sure aren't out partying in the wrong places and picking them up, while most of us are out in the big world every day... how is it that they get them and neither our homes or selves get them?

Well, lice, mites - all the same in effect on the kids & treatment. That makes it easier. So does a good cheeseburger!

Now if she only found a problem on Albert how far could it have spread?. You sure don't need to jail them for 6 weeks!!!! :redhot: They free-roam? The Ivermectin is a 3 wk treatment (in the form I use - same for you?) I'd limit their space for the 3 wks they're on it and just clean that well once a week day before their next dose, and leave their wood stuff in the freezer longer than 2 wks (hit the 2nd hand store if you need to, new fun for all) Main thing is to clean the cage and everything in it well , get all the crevices (I love that mine can go in the tub) - I do a major 2 or 3 days after the first dose, replace all the cozy-rags same day as the dose and again 2-3 days after, then every week[/b].

It's worked for me so far.... Even tho all the sustenance I have to accomplish this great eradication is a Wendy's Junior Bacon-cheese & large Chili.....

 

[dubchick]

ya.. i agree with fidgit.. dont need to completely jail them up.. just limit their free range... id steam clean everything tho... plus just a little extra where they roam . eeep.. im starting to feel itchy thinking about it lol anic: lol

our girls had lice once. we think willow brought it with her from the pet store when we got her and alice.. willow had it the worst poor girl... we used revolution .. it worked great.. im sure the other stuff will work fine to.

it wont last too long.. so no worries there.. just keep them and their areas clean.
no worries mate

 

[user 78]

I would strongly recommend against using any sprays or anything like that for lice. As we all know, a rat's respiratory tracts are so sensitive, I've never felt that the risk was worth it.

Lice are species specific, so they won't feed on anyone/thing else. There have been people who reported that they may have carried the lice, though, so make sure to thoroughly clean any clothes you wear around the boys. A lice life cycle is 14 to 21 days, so make sure to treat for atleast that long. As Dahlas said, I would retreat in a month to make sure you get any eggs that may have been left.

 

[MumsyRat]

I'm sure your vet meant well but it's obvious that Dr. Richards is way behind the times when it comes to treating rats for lice! You may want to provide him with some information that's not from one of his old college textbooks!

It really annoys the hell out of me that vets don't bother to stay current on this type of thing. They put their patients and their owners through hell for no reason!

And I'm completely baffled as to why Debbie Ducommon would recommend a spray! Maybe on your carpets but not on your rats!! :doh:

 

[lilspaz68]

There is a saying "lice are nice..."...well compared to mites they are!! They cannot live off of their host animal for long at all, and aren't wanderers so much like fleas and mites, which are much more difficult to get rid of.

I also prefer Revolution (which you can get without a prescription online if your vet won't prescribe it). It's very effective, its fast, one treatment and the lice are dying in hours, and any new hatchlings take a bite and they die...for up to 30 days of protection which as Javakittie said, is the lifecycle of the lice. NO jailing involved. Even with Ivermectin you shouldn't need to keep them in their cage for 6 weeks! Considering its only a 3 week life cycle.

Ivermectin injections often do not work, and are very very expensive. I prefer ivermectin orally or topically, but Revolution is your best bet.

You could print this for your vet
http://ratguide.com/meds/antiinfectives ... lution.php

And this too...
http://ratguide.com/health/integumentar ... asites.php

Lice are like mites in that they hitch rides on things to get to your rat.
But you should be able to see them. Do you see any slow moving buggies on their backs or butts? They are cigarshaped and usually clearish unless they have eaten and you will see a rusty red dot in the middle (blood meal). Lice prefer backs, and rumps to start whereas mites love to start on shoulders, neck, head and especially chin. You will find scabs there.

 

[jennifervb]

Ick. I don't think I've contended with lice yet, I just start the Ivermectin when it get obvious the owies aren't from playing. Always assumed mites but if they can get lice living inside and have them cleared up with the same med then who knows what unwanted house guests we've had?
I hate that they get these bugs, how does that happen? I use newspaper but I guess if one little prego bug survives processing to newspaper, or rides into the newspaper place on the clothes of some CEO who was out checking the logging stage.... What I don't understand is that it's so prevalent in our kids and they sure aren't out partying in the wrong places and picking them up, while most of us are out in the big world every day... how is it that they get them and neither our homes or selves get them?

Well, lice, mites - all the same in effect on the kids & treatment. That makes it easier. So does a good cheeseburger!

Now if she only found a problem on Albert how far could it have spread?. You sure don't need to jail them for 6 weeks!!!! :redhot: They free-roam? The Ivermectin is a 3 wk treatment (in the form I use - same for you?) I'd limit their space for the 3 wks they're on it and just clean that well once a week day before their next dose, and leave their wood stuff in the freezer longer than 2 wks (hit the 2nd hand store if you need to, new fun for all) Main thing is to clean the cage and everything in it well , get all the crevices (I love that mine can go in the tub) - I do a major 2 or 3 days after the first dose, replace all the cozy-rags same day as the dose and again 2-3 days after, then every week[/b].

It's worked for me so far.... Even tho all the sustenance I have to accomplish this great eradication is a Wendy's Junior Bacon-cheese & large Chili.....

Thanks Fidget,

Dr. Richards said that the Ivermectin treatments are every two weeks for three injections. I made it clear that locking them in the cage for 6 weeks was not an option so they are getting their run time in the bathroom where I can mop the floors afterwards!

I will follow your advice and re-scrub the cage tomorrow evening. That will have been 2 1/2 days since their first shot and alot of their lice should be either dead or dying. I am combing them once daily and washing the flea comb in scalding hot water.... (I know that lice are living creatures too, but my boys take top priority against any other life form. :heart: )

My cage can go into the tub too!!! Isn't that fabulous!!!!! :bunnydance: :bunnydance: :bunnydance: :bunnydance:

The boys spent a quiet first night and have just enjoyed their blueberries and HT blocks.

They will each be getting a small piece of Ahi tuna with dinner this evening. :cuddle:

 

[jennifervb]

ya.. i agree with fidgit.. dont need to completely jail them up.. just limit their free range... id steam clean everything tho... plus just a little extra where they roam . eeep.. im starting to feel itchy thinking about it lol anic: lol

our girls had lice once. we think willow brought it with her from the pet store when we got her and alice.. willow had it the worst poor girl... we used revolution .. it worked great.. im sure the other stuff will work fine to.

it wont last too long.. so no worries there.. just keep them and their areas clean.
no worries mate

Thanks Dubchick!!!

I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out where the lice came from. Dr. Richards said that they are animal specific, but that the lice could adhere to a person's clothes and be transmitted to the rats that way.

In my book, that would mean that I would have had to have contact with a rat owner with lice on his/her clothes. The last time I was in direct contact with rat owners was at the Small Angels Picnic in June, but that was over a month ago. Dr. Richards said that it is very possible that the boys were able to ward off an infection for a time.

My friends and family do not have rats at home, nor do they have friends with rats, so it would be highly unlikely that anyone other than myself could have come home with rat lice on their clothes.

Whatever the case, at least it has been diagnosed and my boys are getting treatment!

This is going to wallop the pet insurance company but I couldn't care less. They screwed me over with Jerry last year so I don't feel the need to take their well being into consideration. They are good in many cases.... but otherwise.... they can fry.

 

[jennifervb]

I would strongly recommend against using any sprays or anything like that for lice. As we all know, a rat's respiratory tracts are so sensitive, I've never felt that the risk was worth it.

Lice are species specific, so they won't feed on anyone/thing else. There have been people who reported that they may have carried the lice, though, so make sure to thoroughly clean any clothes you wear around the boys. A lice life cycle is 14 to 21 days, so make sure to treat for atleast that long. As Dahlas said, I would retreat in a month to make sure you get any eggs that may have been left.

Thanks Javakittie,

I have sent an email to Debbie D regarding the spray and will let you know what her response is. I am not sure if the spray is to be sprayed directly onto the rats. I too would have a problem with that since I know of their respiratory sensitivity. I have asthma so I am acutely aware of how it feels to not be able to breathe. I won't do anything to jeopardize my boys. :heart:

Dr. Richards told me that the treatment shots are to be done every two weeks for three injections, so that should squash any hope of survival for the lice.

I steam cleaned my carpet yesterday and will re-steam them today. They look good, I must say. :laugh4:

 

[user 78]

Once the newspapers have been printed/processed, they lay about in a warehouse/packing facility. In the trucks to news stands and such, back alleys, delivery bays.. There are a thousand and one places where wild rats can and do go through or even live in. This goes for any variety of paper or wood products. Everything sits in a warehouse of some sort for a period of time. Aspen, YN, Carefresh, parrot toys, etc... Given the life cycle of lice, if a contaminated product was brought into the house it could be that the rats weren't infected for a short time until the product was either put where they could get to it, or the lice were carried to the rats. The idea that the lice could manage to survive for a month without you noticing any symptoms, or that they somehow survived a month away from a host, seems a little far fetched.

Also, if your vet insists on giving the injections, they really should be every 10 days.

 

[jennifervb]

I'm sure your vet meant well but it's obvious that Dr. Richards is way behind the times when it comes to treating rats for lice! You may want to provide him with some information that's not from one of his old college textbooks!

It really annoys the hell out of me that vets don't bother to stay current on this type of thing. They put their patients and their owners through hell for no reason!

And I'm completely baffled as to why Debbie Ducommon would recommend a spray! Maybe on your carpets but not on your rats!! :doh:

Thanks Mumsyrat!

I will give Dr. Richards the link!!!

Dr. Richards loves my boys. She says that Basil is her favorite patient. :hugs: I understand their dilemma. Although they have rat patients, they do not have enough of them to be able to keep up to par on the newest treatments. Fortunately, Dr. Richards and Dr. Davis are always willing to read what I give them and listen to what I have to say.

I sent an email to Debbie D regarding the lice spray. I will keep everyone posted. If you have the Rat Health Care book, the statement about the spray is on page 35. It reads as if the spray is supposed to be applied directly to the rats but it doesn't say it specifically.

:hugs:

 

[jennifervb]

There is a saying "lice are nice..."...well compared to mites they are!! They cannot live off of their host animal for long at all, and aren't wanderers so much like fleas and mites, which are much more difficult to get rid of.

I also prefer Revolution (which you can get without a prescription online if your vet won't prescribe it). It's very effective, its fast, one treatment and the lice are dying in hours, and any new hatchlings take a bite and they die...for up to 30 days of protection which as Javakittie said, is the lifecycle of the lice. NO jailing involved. Even with Ivermectin you shouldn't need to keep them in their cage for 6 weeks! Considering its only a 3 week life cycle.

Ivermectin injections often do not work, and are very very expensive. I prefer ivermectin orally or topically, but Revolution is your best bet.

You could print this for your vet
http://ratguide.com/meds/antiinfectives ... lution.php

And this too...
http://ratguide.com/health/integumentar ... asites.php

Lice are like mites in that they hitch rides on things to get to your rat.
But you should be able to see them. Do you see any slow moving buggies on their backs or butts? They are cigarshaped and usually clearish unless they have eaten and you will see a rusty red dot in the middle (blood meal). Lice prefer backs, and rumps to start whereas mites love to start on shoulders, neck, head and especially chin. You will find scabs there.

I didn't see anything on the boys Sweetie! I was looking for mites and didn't see them either!

I think I just screwed up and gave Mumsyrat credit for the links you sent me... I'm sorry Shelagh. I must have inhaled some of the carpet solution. :laugh4:

Albert's back has a nasty scab on it so what you are saying about lice preferring backs and rumps rings true.

Basil and Roquefort appear to have the least trouble with the lice and Ben isn't in bad shape either. Albert is a mess but he does not appear to be suffering at all. I combed him with a flea comb, last night, but he couldn't seem to decide if he liked it or not...LOL!!!

 

[lilspaz68]

With mites you will only see scabs...since almost all are microscopic

With lice you will see nits (silvery eggs on the hair shafts) or the crawlies themselves.

They often scratch like mad, and that can also cause the scabs.

Good thing is the same treatment can be used for both with one small exception. Even Debbie D is suggesting Revolution for mites, since it seems some mites are now resistant to Ivermectin.

 

[jennifervb]

Once the newspapers have been printed/processed, they lay about in a warehouse/packing facility. In the trucks to news stands and such, back alleys, delivery bays.. There are a thousand and one places where wild rats can and do go through or even live in. This goes for any variety of paper or wood products. Everything sits in a warehouse of some sort for a period of time. Aspen, YN, Carefresh, parrot toys, etc... Given the life cycle of lice, if a contaminated product was brought into the house it could be that the rats weren't infected for a short time until the product was either put where they could get to it, or the lice were carried to the rats. The idea that the lice could manage to survive for a month without you noticing any symptoms, or that they somehow survived a month away from a host, seems a little far fetched.

Also, if your vet insists on giving the injections, they really should be every 10 days.

I line the rat cage with Trader Joe's grocery bags and organic paper towels. They usually get fleece too, but I have been advised to take the fleece out until the problem is solved.

What you say about storage makes sense so I am assuming that the Trader Joe's bags would also fall into this category.

I will call the vet tomorrow and see if the boys' treatment can't be changed over to Revolution.

LOL.... they love it when I come in with all this information... I must make them feel as if they know nothing at all. LMAO!!!

:laugh4: :bunnydance: :laugh4: :bunnydance: :laugh4: :bunnydance: :laugh4: :bunnydance: :laugh4: :bunnydance:

 

[lilspaz68]

Fleece is actually a good one for buggies. Wash it in hot water and it kills them, so I honestly would keep them on it

 

[user 78]

I'm with Shelagh. I would scrap the bags/paper towels and go with fleece only. You can wash fleece, you know exactly where it's been, and you know it's not harboring eggs.

 

[jennifervb]

With mites you will only see scabs...since almost all are microscopic

With lice you will see nits (silvery eggs on the hair shafts) or the crawlies themselves.

They often scratch like mad, and that can also cause the scabs.

Good thing is the same treatment can be used for both with one small exception. Even Debbie D is suggesting Revolution for mites, since it seems some mites are now resistant to Ivermectin.

Dr. Richards said that Albert had the nits and she tried showing me one. It looked like a small, silver, rounded rectangle.

Albert does scratch like crazy so it makes sense that his scabs would be bad!

I also read that mites are resistant to Ivermectin but, fortunately, Dr. Richards mentioned that too. That means that she does have some insight into the latest findings.

 

[jennifervb]

Fleece is actually a good one for buggies. Wash it in hot water and it kills them, so I honestly would keep them on it

I cook washed the suckers yesterday and then dried them on a high setting... I don't think there could have been any survivors!!! :wink:

I will put the fleece back down this evening while the boys play in the bathroom.