dspch911
Senior Member
Good idea - best to keep the post separate... Love the modified cage ⥠going to copy you and attempt something like that tonight for Finn & Curley - you did a fantastic job on that and he looks good
Munster wont eat/drink after surgery - He's gone <3
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violet976
Well-Known Member
It should be easy enough to duplicate. you just need some larger flat hammocks mainly. Luckily, I already have 4 shelves for my FN and 4 ramps, bought when one of mine had major HED issues. I cringed at buying them at the time, but they've been a very useful purchase I've never regretted. They've come very necessary on multiple occasions.
dspch911
Senior Member
I have plenty of fabric to make the hammocks, extra shelves, but the ladders might be a problem...
violet976
Well-Known Member
You can try using long flats as ladders. I did that in Munsters Rat Manor, as it only came with 1 of the 3 ladders. You can see a photo here. There is a black flat near the middle of the picture with butterflies on it, I used it as a ramp for him.
This is partly why I'm not leaning towards PT for him. You can see the lower shelf in the photo... he actually would just jump right up to it, didn't use the sides or any boost at all. He had a very great leap until the problems after this surgery.
This is partly why I'm not leaning towards PT for him. You can see the lower shelf in the photo... he actually would just jump right up to it, didn't use the sides or any boost at all. He had a very great leap until the problems after this surgery.
dspch911
Senior Member
violet976 said:Here is Munster this morning, bright eyed and alert:
Munster's upgraded cage. I tried to make it fall proof and low inclines on the ramps. I saw him go up one ramp, and back down using the lower layered flat hammocks, and then back into his lower hammock.
Are you using the plastic pans? Those shelves look really thin
violet976
Well-Known Member
The large bottom pan is the standard plastic tray that comes with the cage. The shelves might look thinner because they are the old style FN shelves, before they changed to the drop in plastic trays. I have both styles as I bought a newer one later on, but the ones pictured are the old shelves. They have a sheet of plastic that you bend and slide horizontally into the frame (you can see what I mean here)
dspch911
Senior Member
How is Munster doing?
violet976
Well-Known Member
He's still doing very well. He's *mostly* taking his meds, as he's finally caught onto them and it's taking a bit of trickery to get them all down. But he's eating well, snatching his food like a rat even, I see him drinking from the water bottle now and he's even climbed up on top of his travel cage. His eyes are bright. The main concern I have now is that his breathing still sounds grunty (which is wasn't before I brought him home). Merles has been that way too despite hard courses of ab's, and Minca sometimes does some wet sneezes, so I'm hoping I don't have a nasty respiratory issue that is passing through all my rats. It would be tough to tell with Munster if the respiratory sounds were from the other rats or the after surgery issues, so for now I'm just hoping the ab's clear it up.
He's back to his old, lovable self now. He simply wants someone to keep a hand on him, pet him, rub his cheeks and talk to him. I'm going to try a small neutral intro with him and Merle tomorrow to see how they do, as both are very mellow and I'd really love for Munster to have some companionship all day long. I figure my vet is open tomorrow so I'll feel safer if something goes wrong intro-wise. I did hold up both Minca and Merle to the side of the cage for Munster. No reaction really from him, and both Merle and Minca seemed good too. A little excitability, but no huffing/hissing. When I rub them and let the others smell my hand, very little reaction at all between them.
He's back to his old, lovable self now. He simply wants someone to keep a hand on him, pet him, rub his cheeks and talk to him. I'm going to try a small neutral intro with him and Merle tomorrow to see how they do, as both are very mellow and I'd really love for Munster to have some companionship all day long. I figure my vet is open tomorrow so I'll feel safer if something goes wrong intro-wise. I did hold up both Minca and Merle to the side of the cage for Munster. No reaction really from him, and both Merle and Minca seemed good too. A little excitability, but no huffing/hissing. When I rub them and let the others smell my hand, very little reaction at all between them.
Godmother
Well-Known Member
Glad he is doing better now. Fingers crossed for the intro!
mamarat
Well-Known Member
Good luck with intros!
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
That is great! Good luck with intros!
violet976
Well-Known Member
Munster does seem to be declining a bit again. His eyes are more squinty and dull, and he's not as interested in food. We've been weaning him off the dex and he's still on baytril/doxy, still drinking from his bottle but I'm worried he's heading back in the direction we just pulled him out of.
He is also doing intros which may be stressing him a little, but his breathing is seeming more labored at this point. He's got some heavy side breathing and just looks more tired now. He's more inclined to leave his legs behind him again when he stops to lay down, laying in a bit more pee lately. He can still walk around, but looks less balanced. He also feels very skinny now. I haven't weighed him but I will today to see how much weight he has lost. I can easily feel his spine and when I got him he had weight to him, a little bit chubby. I'm still doing intros on the bed as, at this point, if he's going to decline I want him to know friends. They are doing well on the bed with the travel cage and one hammock that they all share without squabbling, so I'm hoping it's good for him to have some rattie cuddle time while he's not feeling so well.
Trying to feed him fattening foods as well, but it's getting tougher as I just don't think he's eating as much right now.
He is also doing intros which may be stressing him a little, but his breathing is seeming more labored at this point. He's got some heavy side breathing and just looks more tired now. He's more inclined to leave his legs behind him again when he stops to lay down, laying in a bit more pee lately. He can still walk around, but looks less balanced. He also feels very skinny now. I haven't weighed him but I will today to see how much weight he has lost. I can easily feel his spine and when I got him he had weight to him, a little bit chubby. I'm still doing intros on the bed as, at this point, if he's going to decline I want him to know friends. They are doing well on the bed with the travel cage and one hammock that they all share without squabbling, so I'm hoping it's good for him to have some rattie cuddle time while he's not feeling so well.
Trying to feed him fattening foods as well, but it's getting tougher as I just don't think he's eating as much right now.
violet976
Well-Known Member
I've had Munster out on the bed with the other two for a few hours, intros are doing fine but Munster definitely looks under the weather. He did spend a lot of time cuddling with Minca at least. I noticed that his tail is completely limp, like there is no muscle movement there at all. I ended up giving him a shot of dex since he wont take his meds orally, and found a penis plug as well. I wasn't even aware that they could still pee with one so I hadn't been checking, but a heads up to others to check even if they are because he has a big one in there.
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
Yes, rats can still pee with a plug. How was he after removal of it? I've noticed some males become very distressed and uncomfortable when one needs to be removed and then they perk up after.
I sure hope he improves again.
I sure hope he improves again.
violet976
Well-Known Member
I've gotten him to eat a little of his favorites after, so I'm hoping there is something to it. I'm sure there is more going on here than just the plug is responsible, but I cannot imagine it made him feel good to have it in there. It's good to now know that they can pee with plugs, because I hadn't even thought to check him for one simply because he was peeing ok. Now I'll just have a routine to check all my males regardless.
I ended up calling the vet in case I could get in before Monday's appointment, but he'll be out of town until then. I did let him know all that is going on, and the weaning down of the dex, and he said to move him back up to the higher dose again to try and pull him through the weekend and to see if he responds well again at the higher dose. His thought is that perhaps we are dealing with some sort of cancer and that the dex might be reducing the swelling of something. It was just a quick note passed through the receptionist, so I don't really know there. I myself am wondering what would have responded so well to the dex initially, and then so quickly not responded as well at the lower doses. Again, we've got a lot of variables still, as the fluids were discontinued when we started the dex, but I've seen him drinking water quite frequently and until this morning he was drinking a lot of ensure. The tiring and labored breathing have me wondering as well. I'm not seeing the familiar signs of PT, and would PT also cause labored breathing? He just seems very very weak and tired.
I also forgot to mention that his weight has gone down considerably. He's down about 200 grams since everything started.
I ended up calling the vet in case I could get in before Monday's appointment, but he'll be out of town until then. I did let him know all that is going on, and the weaning down of the dex, and he said to move him back up to the higher dose again to try and pull him through the weekend and to see if he responds well again at the higher dose. His thought is that perhaps we are dealing with some sort of cancer and that the dex might be reducing the swelling of something. It was just a quick note passed through the receptionist, so I don't really know there. I myself am wondering what would have responded so well to the dex initially, and then so quickly not responded as well at the lower doses. Again, we've got a lot of variables still, as the fluids were discontinued when we started the dex, but I've seen him drinking water quite frequently and until this morning he was drinking a lot of ensure. The tiring and labored breathing have me wondering as well. I'm not seeing the familiar signs of PT, and would PT also cause labored breathing? He just seems very very weak and tired.
I also forgot to mention that his weight has gone down considerably. He's down about 200 grams since everything started.
Godmother
Well-Known Member
Poor sweetie. It must be hard to see him decline. I don't recall any of my rats with PT who had labored breathing. Hoping that Munster can hold his own until Monday.
violet976
Well-Known Member
Munster isn't looking good at all. I managed to get them all in the cage together last night, wanting him to have friends by his side if his time was short. I put a plate down with everything I could think of, and he ate a sunflower seed, a small piece of lettuce and nothing else. His eyes are dull, he's very weak, sitting in his own pee and not drinking much water and no ensure or treats at all. I think I will try one last ditch shot of dex and a small amount of sub-q, but I'm not sure I can make him go like this.
I also wonder if he's been pooing much. It's just a hunch, but when I flipped him over I thought I could feel a small hard lump on one side of his lower abdomen, just slightly above his penis and over a bit. I didn't feel the same on other side, so I wonder if there is a mass there, or backed up poo. I don't know what is going on really at this point which is killing me, as I feel like I have to make a decision on whether to keep trying or give up without even knowing if there is a chance for him. I thought maybe an x-ray could provide answers, but his breathing is labored and he's in such bad shape, I'm not sure it's even fair at this point. I'm also not sure what an x-ray might show that would actually provide a course of treatment that was likely to help him, nor if that's really even close to the issue of what's wrong here. Part of me feels as if I'm simply grasping at straws because I don't want to let him go with this much wonder about if I did something wrong, or overlooked something that would have easily saved him. I'm just stunned that he made such a great upturn to just go right back downhill again, and I've only just got him to put him through all this. It kills me to throw in the towel knowing this is the life I provided for him, and that the best I can think of to do now is to simply give him friends and possibly have to let him pass.
I also wonder if he's been pooing much. It's just a hunch, but when I flipped him over I thought I could feel a small hard lump on one side of his lower abdomen, just slightly above his penis and over a bit. I didn't feel the same on other side, so I wonder if there is a mass there, or backed up poo. I don't know what is going on really at this point which is killing me, as I feel like I have to make a decision on whether to keep trying or give up without even knowing if there is a chance for him. I thought maybe an x-ray could provide answers, but his breathing is labored and he's in such bad shape, I'm not sure it's even fair at this point. I'm also not sure what an x-ray might show that would actually provide a course of treatment that was likely to help him, nor if that's really even close to the issue of what's wrong here. Part of me feels as if I'm simply grasping at straws because I don't want to let him go with this much wonder about if I did something wrong, or overlooked something that would have easily saved him. I'm just stunned that he made such a great upturn to just go right back downhill again, and I've only just got him to put him through all this. It kills me to throw in the towel knowing this is the life I provided for him, and that the best I can think of to do now is to simply give him friends and possibly have to let him pass.
violet976
Well-Known Member
My sweet Munster was helped across today. He stopped eating last night and got weaker as the night went on. I placed Merle and Minca with him last night. I think he had some time with them, but it looked to me like something was paining him and he just kept trying to move around the cage all night. I held him this morning until the appointment, and he continued to not be able to get comfortable, nor could I see any bowel movements. He was maxed out on dex, I didn't have the heart for more sub-q fluids/shots if it was to be his time, and I just felt he had fought long enough. My vet was not supposed to be there today but he had dropped in and came to check on him, and he said he still suspected cancer, that he could feel another mass or two in his abdomen which might be why he couldn't go potty, and that perhaps the tumor we tried to remove was larger than thought and had gotten to his spine. I will never know for sure, but I just hope it wasn't something I did that took him from us. I hope his time was just the time he had left, and I hope he had some good moments with me before he departed. He simply loved love, loved to be held, to be kissed, to be talked to, to sit with his head in your hand and be rubbed. Just soaked up every last drop, which makes me certain that he was well loved and cared for before I got the chance to know him. He must have had a good life before me as they just don't get to be this sort of rat without that, and I am deeply saddened that I didn't get to know such a wonderful, loving, sweet rat such as him for longer than this. My heart simply aches that I could not save him, but he was nothing but pure love while I had him. <3
YorkieLove
Well-Known Member
:hugs: I am so very sorry for your loss :hugs: I am sure Munster knew and understood all the love, care and treatment you gave him. He knew how hard you fought to save him. I am sure it was nothing you did it was just his time. :heart: RIP sweet boy you will be missed :heart:
