Mr. Curley, RIP sweet boy 10/7/13 The End of Curley's story

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Still syringing the meds into Curley but I'm going REALLY slow about .03 at a time so its a long process and by the time I have about .3 to go he doesn't want to swallow anymore!! I got the strawberry ensure yesterday and he did drink the up from a small bowl and I also mixed it with some baby cereal which he ate. We were able to SQ about 5ml into him, but he hated that.

Finn isn't really taking the meds at all anymore he really just spits them out so I really don't think he's getting much at all and at this point I'm not going to force him. He also took the ensure. We could not SQ him cause for some reason we could not get the needle into him and after 3 attempts we didn't want to subject him to it anymore.

They were both still with us this morning. I have no idea if my ratties understand me when I'm talking to them, but last night when I put GMC and Bumbles back into their cage after time out I took each one and had a brief talk with them. I told them to watch over Curley and Finn and as soon as they were back in the cage each one went to Curley (one at a time) and laid next to him while the other watched from above. :heart: those boys....

BF is going to try and get him in to another vet today for the Dex - although I think it could be too late at this point, but I need to try at least.
 
Baby cereal and yogurt have probiotics, not baby food. It would just decrease the effectiveness of the antibiotics if you gave them too close together, but that would not be a huge issue here because a) it's unlikely he even needs antibiotics and b) he needs food, no matter what you have to do to get him to eat.
 
Sounds like you are doing all you can for them. I hope the fluids help them to feel a bit better and I hope they can get some yummy treats down. I know most of my rats will go for the ensure, and coconut water seemed to be enjoyed as well so I mixed it in with that.

I hope you are able to get the dex. I honestly thought I was going to lose Munster last week and the dex brought him out of it amazingly. I know it's not a guarantee, but it really can do amazing things if it is going to work.
 
They are at the vet now there are three rat doctors working today - I told him all three should see Curley, since he is SPECIAL and deserves their attention. :heart: Just got a text message he's getting the Dex shot and pred for now. She is not totally convinced its PT :gaah: :rant: I told him to hold Finn like he's giving him meds and put syringe by his hands and show how he grabs it - then do the same with Curley and how he does NOTHING! Explain his walk - he's just using back legs to push himself. Show how when his front paws are under him top side down he doesn't right them. He has window rattling teeth clatter. :rant: :gaah: OMG what more do they need !!!! I don't want it to be PT either, but the signs are there..... At least they are giving him the shot and mommy doesn't have to get postal on anyone just yet. Both boys are also getting more SQ fluids.... Apparently Curley hauled himself up and headed for the travel cage - yea, he has momentary bursts or energy about once a day and that is because he is at the vet - he is trying to escape.... :wallbang: :wallbang: My poor baby has seen 4 doctors in a week ..... maybe more depending on how many he saw today! Good thing almost all our wedding stuff is paid for - except wedding rings those may have to wait.... and its a good thing there was no honeymoon in the plans. Tomorrow I'll find out what flowers will cost - I'm finding that to be a ridiculous expense, but I guess I need something. :emb:

EDIT: just informed they were given fluids each both got 30mls and absorbed it almost immedicately !!!! That seems like a lot to me, but I hope it helps. I know Finn is skin and bones, but Curley has always had extra skin hanging. No bromo Rx yet though, but for now I am happy with the Dex shot.
 
Munster did the same thing when at the vet, he would look quite a bit better, attempt to walk more, but once I'd get him back home he would just lay there barely moving. I would think that would be the case with many animals who might possibly have it in them to look better or move if needed, simply because they are panicked. I would assume most vets would be familiar with that.

I'm surprised the vets are so adamant about it not being PT. My personal opinion, my vets as well, is that once you've exhausted all other treatments, why not simply try what's left if there is a chance. I told my vet that I had given Munster the dex injection at home from what I had leftover from another rat, and explained that I understood he may not have liked me making that call, but he just said that if you are at a point where you're pretty much considering euthanasia, better to try something if there is something to try. In the case of Dex, the results are usually so fast and impressive when it does actually work, I can't imagine not giving it a go unless there were other medical considerations that truly made it not an option for a rat. We're pretty much talking about buying them time here, so it seems silly for a vet to have such a hard stand on the issue.

and lol. I guess it's good for both you and hubby to get a hard, fast sneak peek at marriage while there is still time to get cold feet. I'm kidding, of course, but things like this really help you to get a feel for the person you are sharing your life with, and to see if their values are on par with your own. <3

the fluids should help as well if they absorbed that fast. I can only imagine how dehydrated they must have been.
 
I realize the vet has the education, but I see my babies every day and I know how they behave and what's wrong with them!!! Aggh!!! I tried explaining that to her last Thursday that what she was seeing was not what I see when he is home. He was doing exactly that - panicing and trying to get away and that involved using what strength he could muster up. I'm trying to be optimistic, but we are way behind on getting Curley treatment if it is PT since I started off just thinking he was depressed so by my guesstamation (yes, I made up that word) he's a month into this already. I cannot believe he absorbed so much fluid - we put in 5ml yesterday and he didn't absorb it all right away and he was drinking or appeared to be the ensure.

Glad to hear Munster is doing much better and seems to be on his way to a happy life with some friends. I certainly hope we have Curley around longer, but I know we have tried everything and I have piece of mind in that.
 
Last night his walking had improved - he was holding his upper body up instead of just pushing himself along with his back feet. He did whimper some though when I touched his lower abdomen - don't know if something is hurting in there or if it was from the SQ injections and I was touching a tender spot. He did get a warm "shower" as he decided to bathe in the ensure, so did Finn..... This morning I put my finger under his right paw and he did make a slight attempt to grasp it, meaning he actually curled his paw around my finger - this is a response he was no longer doing, but I got nothing on his left side. Tomorrow we see his normal vet - I'm sure she won't be happy we went and got the Dex shot she wouldn't give and the pred starts tomorrow too. Which reminds me, the pred is pink??? All the pred I've had to this point has been a milky white color... She didn't want to give the bromo just yet because its a blood thinner and they didn't want him to start throwing blood clots. I'm alright with that for now. Hopefully there will be more improvement when I get home from work.
 
Don't see any improvement and I'm guessing that if the Dex was going to work, it would have by now. :cry4: He has also taken another baby cereal bath so he will be getting another "shower" to clean him up. I guess this isn't a good sign either he's too far gone or its not PT and we have another mystery on our hands... :gaah:
 
I'm so sorry to hear that. I wish I had more guesses up my sleeve but I'll leave that to the experts on the forum. Hopefully Curley still has a few more upturns for you. I know it's really nasty getting to the point where there is just not much more to try, but then it's most important to simply love them and spoil them in every way they'll allow. These are the moments that matter the most, and if it's to be their final time, you get the opportunity and foresight to make it as happy as possible. <3
 
violet976 said:
Also, do you happen to know the dose they gave for the dex? Just curious how strong of a dose it was.
Click to expand...

I don't know the bf took him. However, I guess we shouldn't of given him the dex shot so soon after the metacam - something about non steroidal (metacam) and then the steroid given on top of each other could do damage to his stomach? We had him at his regular vet yesterday and she has no idea what is wrong with him and referred us to an exotics specialist if we want to go further with testing. He pooped dark black yesterday which indicates he may have had some internal bleeding at some point, but since its dark black the bleeding probably stopped. He's lost 100g. We could try a blood test, but the bleeding could be so some it wouldn't detect it. X-ray would only show a mass and no one feels any. He's lungs sound clear again. When his front paws are pinched he pulls away 90% of the time so I think he has feeling in them. He attempts to groom himself on very rare occasions, usually I have to bathe him because he lays in the the baby food or ensure. He is however, walking on all four paws again rather than just pushing himself along with his back feet. We are taking him out of the cage to eat now - he eats on the couch and yesterday (no comments) I gave him half a chocolate covered strawberry which he nibbled on along with his baby food. He is only eating soft foods right now. Today I figured out how to add the fish oil to their diet - I made cous cous and replaced olive oil w/fish oil. He's now on famotidine 1mg daily (stomach protector) w/pred twice a day. We're not giving up yet. Surprisingly yesterday he kept trying to snuggle with the cat - they have never had any interaction - and the cat didn't care at all that she had a rattie on her back.
 
it sounds like you are doing what can be done at this point, and I wouldn't dare comment on any item you were feeding him unless it was something that was known to be very bad for rats. At this point in the fight, getting them to eat *anything* is better than nothing at all. For Munster, I was giving him cookie, ice cream, you name it if he wanted it. I also think if you can find something, anything.. sometimes it's enough to stimulate their non-existent appetite for a bit of healthier foods as well.

I'm glad he is at least still getting some loves in, even if it's with the cat. Be careful, of course, as I'm sure you are, but every little happiness counts. I also wanted to mention, simply because it happened to me this week, to be sure you are also checking him for penis plugs. I'm sure someone has already brought it up, but I hadn't thought to check Munster for them simply because he was peeing so much I didn't think it was possible, but he had a large one this week when I flipped him over.

It's good you are able to take him out to eat as well. Hopefully he will have an easier time of it. As another mentioned, you might also consider taking the others out and leaving him in for feedings if he seems less stressed and likely to eat in the cage.
 
I have been checking him for plugs a couple times a day, but ironically, I read that in your Munster thread today and just last pm we discussed that. I had asked the bf if he checked him and he said no, but he wouldn't have one since he just peed. So, we too thought he wouldn't have them as long as he was peeing. So I did see your post today and went and checked him since we didn't last pm and he has been having them on a pretty regular basis, but I have never seen any the size of the one you found. Finn has the every once in awhile, but surprisingly that boy can still clean his winky pretty well, just not the rest of himself.

We have discussed dividing the DCN and making it two singles, putting Curley and Finn in one and the other three in the other, but we're just afraid separating them will cause them more stress since they have been together since birth. (Curley is the other four's daddy) I think as long as we keep taking Curley and Finn out of the cage for some extra feeding time they will be alright and they are eating outside of the cage so they must be hungry since these boys don't eat outside of the cage for anything. On a lighter note, Finn was trying to eat the cous cous out of the saucer dish and Kona was barging in - Finn took a paw to him with force - not only did it shock me, but Kona had no idea what hit him smack on the nose and he took off defeated. :joy: Finn!! That boy still has fight in him and he wanted his food! Kona went on to destroy the pirate hat they sleep in! We put multiple dishes in their cages or try and keep the healthy boys out of the saucer dishes that they sick boys eat better out of.

We're not giving up on them, but we really have to start thinking about what we're spending on them. We have no problem going to the vet, but we really have to think about diagnostic testing and specialists. If Curley isn't showing improvement in a couple weeks we'll probably so to the exotic specialist to see if they have any idea what is wrong with him.
 
I try to weight the expenses against how likely or helpful those expenses have a chance of being. I mean, sometimes there are things that seem drastic, but really have a decent probability of helping and you do it. Other times, you realize that you are simply grasping at straws and at some point, be it financially or even for the rats quality of life, you have draw the line. I've done it myself, and it's usually in a situation like Munster or my former Nibs (who battled chronic respiratory issues). Part of me kept thinking of anything I could be missing. Wondering if it was his heart, or somehow he had just gotten backed up. Part of me wanted to try diagnostic testing for heart issues, part of me wanted to do xrays to see if we could find out what was wrong, but a larger part of me had to look at the condition he was in, how hard and long he had fought, and realize that I could try those options, but they weren't likely to do anything for him and, if they didn't, he would suffer longer while I tried to get the answers I was seeking. There will come a point where you have to really consider if the decisions you are making are what's best for them, or more for your own piece of mind, and that's usually the deciding factor at the end. Luckily, for many of us at least, our heart simply tells us that they are done, and tells us we need to let them go.

I think both you and your husband will know when you are at that point, and it sounds like your boys still have a bit of fight in them yet. You've done so much for them, given them so much care... they are all very lucky to have you. I wouldn't worry to much in advance about making the "financial" decisions. In my experience with situations like these, your heart will guide you through the best course of action. Hindsight may always kick you later and the "what if's" never ease up on you, but it makes it easier to realize that you simply made the best decisions you knew based on the information you had at the time, and in the end that has to be enough.
 
I have piece of mind we're doing everything we can especially when it comes to Finn. There is no point putting him through blood tests, etc when we know there is nothing we can do for him that we aren't already doing. Unless, someone decides to do a kidney transplant.

As for Curley, the only thing I'm wishing I had asked was for an ultrasound since that should of detected any internal bleeding and I don't even know if that was an option - if they even had one or not.

My boys will tell me when they have had enough. I won't keep them here with me just for me :heart:
 
Our boy is making no progress he is pushing himself along now with his back feet kind of in a back stroke motion which would be fine if he was a swimmer. We are syringing fluid and food into him along with giving him saucers of baby food, ensure, etc., but he isn't eating much. I have noticed a "fishy" smell by his winky so we will start him on the baytril/doxy again in case he is getting a UTI on top of everything else. The bf says he was head bumping a lot today as if he didn't know where he was - I'm pretty sure this is PT and I really wish he would go peacefully in his sleep so we wouldn't have to make the decision when to have him PTS. Unfortunately, our only day off together, that the vet is working, is Saturday and that also happens to be our wedding shower ... but it looks like that could be the day we lose our Mr. Curley :cry: :sad3: :cry4: :(
 
Poor guy... I hate when you cannot figure out or help them. I have a few that way now that I cannot pinpoint what exactly is the problem. Did you try bromo or will they not give it to you?
 

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