Rachael
Well-Known Member
RattusNorvegicus said:
I wasn't advising that, mine don't get it Bromo at all, sorry for any confusion.
They get the Dex and then a course of Prednisalone.
Mr. Curley, RIP sweet boy 10/7/13 The End of Curley's story
- Thread starter dspch911
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I wasn't advising that, mine don't get it Bromo at all, sorry for any confusion.
They get the Dex and then a course of Prednisalone.
dspch911 said:
My vet gave me a bottle of Dex so I could inject it whenever I needed. Squid was on it, but it's nice to have on hand in case of severe resp issues. They may give you a bottle or you may get a single shot, or some vets pre-measure single-serve syringes for you, so that you have one syringe for each dose - If they do this, make sure they change out the needles after drawing the medicine into the syringe, or you'll be stabbing your boy with a dull needle.
I've never used bromo before, so I can't comment on it.
Unepuce
Well-Known Member
What I do is an initial shot of Dex, than wait 48 hours to start the Prednisone, as they cannot be given together. He would be on Pred daily, but if he responds very well to it, you can try and lower the dose gradually until you find the right balance. My PT rats only get Dex once.
Other people here will use Dex instead of Pred, and give it every other day, I believe. Dex is much stronger than Pred, which is a plus, but it also deprieve the immune system much more, that's why my vet prefers Pred as the long term option.
And I honestly don't believe there are issues with giving abs while on Bromo. I can't remember from the top of my head, but I am sure I had a rat with PT that was also treated for a URI. But please don't take my word for it, I never actually researched it.
Other people here will use Dex instead of Pred, and give it every other day, I believe. Dex is much stronger than Pred, which is a plus, but it also deprieve the immune system much more, that's why my vet prefers Pred as the long term option.
And I honestly don't believe there are issues with giving abs while on Bromo. I can't remember from the top of my head, but I am sure I had a rat with PT that was also treated for a URI. But please don't take my word for it, I never actually researched it.
dspch911
Senior Member
Curley saw his regular vet this afternoon. She also does not believe he is showing clear enough signs to say he has PT. She believes he is just really sick and not responding as quickly to the medication. I just don't know what to do with him anymore. She didn't want to give him the dex do to it being a very strong steroid and that it would make the antibiotics less effective and he needs them to work right now. I am very concerned over his stool, he made a solid reddish one at the vet and just had another same color/looking but looser one a little while ago - and released his whole bladder on me again. I'm hoping its just do to the antibiotics and not because that vet the other night took his temperature and injured something inside. I brought his favorite treats with me to the appointment to show her it doesn't take them, but he took a yoogie eating only half and did hold it in one paw for a brief moment. I tried getting through to her that Curley is my most out going rat he will push other ratties out of the way to be the center of attention and that he lives for food. He wouldn't leave a half eaten yoogie - he would eat five! He has feeling in his front paws and he was walking around exploring and he even groomed himself (which I haven't seen him do in awhile) - I have no problem with him making me look like a lier. I did tell her Curley dying IS NOT AN OPTION!! He was a bit dehydrated and was giving fluid which I'm told he was not happy about. I have been cleaning plugs and wiping his belly since he seems to be laying in pee - which was explained also. That's when he decided to groom :emb:
I was AGAIN pointing out his porphyrin eye (about the third appointment I've mentioned it) and at first nothing, but then she says his eyes don't look right. His left eye is very cloudy and has a bit of a white circle/bubble. This is where I rather rudely mention I brought (actually bf, I was working) him in over two months ago for his eye since a porphyrin eye wasn't normal for Curley and I was having to clean it for him. She said nothing was wrong with it!!! Again, the bf was there and some reason appts go wrong when I'm not there - he's not that forceful. Anyway, she does a stain test - he has a severe eye injury - a deep ulcer and has probably been in severe pain for quite some time. He is now on an eye ointment three times a day and metacam. The eye will be re-examed on Thursday and if it gets any deeper he will need to see an Opthamologist.
Just have to keep praying he is just really sick and will over come this and be our Mr. Curley again... :heart:
I was AGAIN pointing out his porphyrin eye (about the third appointment I've mentioned it) and at first nothing, but then she says his eyes don't look right. His left eye is very cloudy and has a bit of a white circle/bubble. This is where I rather rudely mention I brought (actually bf, I was working) him in over two months ago for his eye since a porphyrin eye wasn't normal for Curley and I was having to clean it for him. She said nothing was wrong with it!!! Again, the bf was there and some reason appts go wrong when I'm not there - he's not that forceful. Anyway, she does a stain test - he has a severe eye injury - a deep ulcer and has probably been in severe pain for quite some time. He is now on an eye ointment three times a day and metacam. The eye will be re-examed on Thursday and if it gets any deeper he will need to see an Opthamologist.
Just have to keep praying he is just really sick and will over come this and be our Mr. Curley again... :heart:
dspch911
Senior Member
Don't see improvement today either. He attempted to hold down a piece of banana after one was stolen from him. Curley never would of let food be taken from him - the battle would of been on! He's walking around the cage and I added another shelf and ladder trying to make it handicap friendly for my two boys. He did show some interest in helping me clean it - he always has to approve of my cleaning job he's my helper. Tried to put syringe in his paw while giving him his meds and he did nothing. Finn grabbed it. I'm thinking of giving him some of Finn's pred, but they give us so little at a time I would be taking away from Finn.
violet976
Well-Known Member
Is there any way to feed him separately from the others? Possibly just take him out on the bed or couch for feeding time?
Rachael
Well-Known Member
It definitely sounds like PT to me, it is so fustrating that your vets aren't listening. 
I agree with feeding him separately right now. Soft / liquid foods would be easier for him to manage - things like baby food for example. He might also find a flat bowl like a saucer easier to eat from.
I agree with feeding him separately right now. Soft / liquid foods would be easier for him to manage - things like baby food for example. He might also find a flat bowl like a saucer easier to eat from.
dspch911
Senior Member
Rachael said:It definitely sounds like PT to me, it is so fustrating that your vets aren't listening.
I agree with feeding him separately right now. Soft / liquid foods would be easier for him to manage - things like baby food for example. He might also find a flat bowl like a saucer easier to eat from.
The banana was a morning treat. He is eating and he is showing very very little improvement. While he will not take food out of the bowl he is on occassion holding it and he is hold it down with both paws as of this am when I put it in front of him. He also fought me this am when giving him meds, but never grabbed the syringe, before he was just a blob. He sees the vet again on Thursday. I am hesitant to give him baby food while on the antibiotics. These boys will not eat outside of their cage - I've tried they will not even take treats.
Rachael
Well-Known Member
Why can't he get the baby food while on antibiotics?
If he needs some extra time to eat you could take the others out into a carrier / for some playtime while he eats
If he needs some extra time to eat you could take the others out into a carrier / for some playtime while he eats
dspch911
Senior Member
Rachael said:Why can't he get the baby food while on antibiotics?
If he needs some extra time to eat you could take the others out into a carrier / for some playtime while he eats
I know I was told before that some baby food and yogurt has probiotics in them and shouldn't be given within 2 hours of some antibiotics and I KNOW its been clarified for me on what these are, but I didn't write it down so I cannot remember the exact information and I do not want to mess up the affects of his meds since he needs to get better. He was eating this am when mean mommy took him out for his meds!! In fact he actually spit the food in his mouth out at me - they hate me at this point (him and Finn) I'm the mean medicine lady!!
violet976
Well-Known Member
I would think if the baby food had probiotics added, it should certainly be listed on the jar. I'm certain there are many baby foods out there that are nothing but fruit or veggies.
For getting meds down, I can *usually* fool mine with fresh mashed banana. I make up my own meds by crushing the pill and mixing the powder into strawberry syrup (calcium free - they add calcium to everything these days). When they catch on (like this week with Munster), I have to get creative. I found two things that really seem to get them to eat their meds are the fresh banana mixed with lemon wafers (this is what I use), or this week with Munster I used vegan chocolate ice cream sandwiches (mainly, the chocolate wafer part). I added a pinch of salt to it and a pinch of nut butter, even a pinch of a calcium free vegan ice cream if needed, and he's eaten most of his meds down. There are quite a few vegan ice creams that are calcium free, thank goodness, as that's usually part of my back up plan for meds.
For feeding a sick rat, I noticed with Munster this week part of the issue seemed to be that he would lose focus when he was at his sickest. He would take a bite, look away, and right when I'd think he was turning it down, I realized that if I dipped my finger in it and put it up to his mouth, he'd eager eat more. It was as if he just got distracted. Now that he's better, I don't see that at all, but when I try to feed him I always make sure to offer it multiple times, usually starting with off my finger first. I also multiple types of food in front of him so hopefully he'll quickly find something he'll like, and then at least I know quickly that he still has an interest in food.
Another thing to keep in mind (I almost forgot this week) is to have a water bottle on every level. Once I did that, I noticed Munster drinking more. It helps ensure that they aren't lacking water simply because they may not have the strength to get to the bottle. I also gave Munster *a lot* of strawberry ensure and coconut water this week, the main thing he truly enjoyed when he was sick. I sucked it up in a syringe and slowly dropped it out for him as he licked it down.
Hang in there love. You are doing the very best you know how for them both. I know it begins to feel terrible when you suspect that the only things they are now associating you with are the bad things, but I do think they let it go faster than you think. I spent my first real week with Munster taking him right in for surgery, home for recovery, trying to force foods into him, giving him shots, etc, and he still wants nothing but love from me. Even at his sickest, he just wanted love. Just love them at every possibly moment you can. Talk to them, pet them, give them little rattie grooms with your nails. I think somewhere deep down they understand that we don't really intend them any harm.
For getting meds down, I can *usually* fool mine with fresh mashed banana. I make up my own meds by crushing the pill and mixing the powder into strawberry syrup (calcium free - they add calcium to everything these days). When they catch on (like this week with Munster), I have to get creative. I found two things that really seem to get them to eat their meds are the fresh banana mixed with lemon wafers (this is what I use), or this week with Munster I used vegan chocolate ice cream sandwiches (mainly, the chocolate wafer part). I added a pinch of salt to it and a pinch of nut butter, even a pinch of a calcium free vegan ice cream if needed, and he's eaten most of his meds down. There are quite a few vegan ice creams that are calcium free, thank goodness, as that's usually part of my back up plan for meds.
For feeding a sick rat, I noticed with Munster this week part of the issue seemed to be that he would lose focus when he was at his sickest. He would take a bite, look away, and right when I'd think he was turning it down, I realized that if I dipped my finger in it and put it up to his mouth, he'd eager eat more. It was as if he just got distracted. Now that he's better, I don't see that at all, but when I try to feed him I always make sure to offer it multiple times, usually starting with off my finger first. I also multiple types of food in front of him so hopefully he'll quickly find something he'll like, and then at least I know quickly that he still has an interest in food.
Another thing to keep in mind (I almost forgot this week) is to have a water bottle on every level. Once I did that, I noticed Munster drinking more. It helps ensure that they aren't lacking water simply because they may not have the strength to get to the bottle. I also gave Munster *a lot* of strawberry ensure and coconut water this week, the main thing he truly enjoyed when he was sick. I sucked it up in a syringe and slowly dropped it out for him as he licked it down.
Hang in there love. You are doing the very best you know how for them both. I know it begins to feel terrible when you suspect that the only things they are now associating you with are the bad things, but I do think they let it go faster than you think. I spent my first real week with Munster taking him right in for surgery, home for recovery, trying to force foods into him, giving him shots, etc, and he still wants nothing but love from me. Even at his sickest, he just wanted love. Just love them at every possibly moment you can. Talk to them, pet them, give them little rattie grooms with your nails. I think somewhere deep down they understand that we don't really intend them any harm.
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dspch911
Senior Member
His breathing didn't seem right when I got home from work. I was able to slowing give him his meds with some soy formula, he did walk around some and he ate a yoogie, but this is him now. I have no idea what a dying rat looks like, but I believe I'm looking at one. His sons keep coming by one at a time and laying down next to him - I think they are saying good bye. :sad3: :cry4: :cry: I don't know what we will do without our Curley - I will give them a little more time with him and then I will get him, but I don't want him to know how sad I am and all I do is cry on him...
EDIT: I had him out just laying on my chest for awhile and BIG surprise, I was once again the human liter pan :lol2: as he let it out both ends. I know that sounds bad, but he actually perked up after that and started moving around. He is now on top of the couch w/Finn hanging out. I have apple pieces up there and hopefully they will eat them, but no luck so far as Curley is asleep again and I see Finn has some how gotten under the blanket since I see it bouncing up and down so that will need investigating. Fingers crossed they hang on until daddy gets home in am for SQ fluids... :bow: He's also going to get Curley into another vet in am if possible.
:cry: I don't know what we will do without our Curley - I will give them a little more time with him and then I will get him, but I don't want him to know how sad I am and all I do is cry on him...
EDIT: I had him out just laying on my chest for awhile and BIG surprise, I was once again the human liter pan :lol2: as he let it out both ends. I know that sounds bad, but he actually perked up after that and started moving around. He is now on top of the couch w/Finn hanging out. I have apple pieces up there and hopefully they will eat them, but no luck so far as Curley is asleep again and I see Finn has some how gotten under the blanket since I see it bouncing up and down so that will need investigating. Fingers crossed they hang on until daddy gets home in am for SQ fluids... :bow: He's also going to get Curley into another vet in am if possible.
violet976
Well-Known Member
out both ends? I thought rats could not vomit, so I wonder if he was at the tail end of a choking session. When he coughed it up, what did it look like?
dspch911
Senior Member
violet976 said:
I meant he peed and pooped on me at the same time - sorry for the confusion!
dspch911
Senior Member
Which reminds me of a question - since this started I have checked Curley regularly for plugs. There was nothing (not even pus, goo, nothing) last night when I went to bed around 9pm then this evening around 5pm he had the worst one I've seen yet. When I went to remove it - it kept coming out of his "winky" so it was like a round head w/a stem. Is that bad or normal? There was more goo than usual too. Sorry to be so graphic :sick2:
mamarat
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a normal plug to me. They kinda come in all sizes. lol
dspch911
Senior Member
mamarat said:
Good, cause I've only had just goopy stuff nothing hard before, maybe I was just getting to it before it hardened. I gave the sicky boys bowls of baby cereal w/soy formula last night and this morning in shallow dishes. Curley was all over it - Finn did the best he could, but with that swinging head of his my poor baby has such a hard time. I tried Curley on just soy formula last night before the cereal, but he kept putting his nose into it and I was afraid he was going to drown himself.
violet976
Well-Known Member
Does he eat off your finger easier? Perhaps you can hold him steady while feeding him off your finger? I know at his worst last week Munster seemed much more eager to eat off my finger or from a syringe.
Godmother
Well-Known Member
I'm glad that Curley is doing a little better, poor sweetie. Thanks to you and Violet976 I now have some more ideas up my sleeve for getting meds down sick rats.
violet976
Well-Known Member
I also just figured out today that medjool dates work really well for masking meds too. Today I got Munster's meds down with some mashed banana, oatmeal and a bit of a mushed date.
