intro in the bathtub with running water: AMAZING

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sketchi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
388
Location
Toronto, ON
thanks a million to whoever suggested that trick, because yesterday I threw them all in water and THEY DID NOT FIGHT!!!!! :happydance: I've been trying to intro milky to noodle + strider for nearly two months now, and even the big scary bathtub didn't work (milky ALWAYS ended up biting someone within a couple minutes, tops) -- until yesterday, when I filled it with water. :cheeky: I made a little island out of the veggie-washing basin, and they all crowded around there while licking themselves. at one point noodle attempted a great jump out, and fell on to milky, who immediately went on the defensive and leapt on to noodle's back.... but didn't bite! he actually froze there for a while, considered the situation, and backed off slowly. I was giggling from relief. they were together for about 20 minutes, before I decided to let them up since they were miserable bedraggled things.

so it looks like they WILL be able to become friends yet!



question though, should I continue the filled-bathtub intro (they all HATED me afterwards, I had to coddle them individually for hours. at first they'd stare at me with hurt expressions, as if I betrayed them hahahah), or can I now move on to neutral territories? if I should keep doing scary intros, how long should I do it for?
 
Only continue the bathtub as long as necessary. Usually it is only necessary 1 to 3 or 4 times, depending on the rats involved.
Then move to neutral territory intros, then to nonneutral territory intros and finally to living together.
 
Milky is such a good looking bad little boy. Sounds like things are finally looking up. :D
 
I've put them together for the past three days (20 minutes each night), consistently getting NO BLOOD! ahhhh I'm sooo happy! scuffles, huffing, some scary squeaks, but no blood whatsoever! yesterday I put them in very shallow water, then took them out until they scuffled. then I'd immediately put them back in the tub for a minute, and repeat. today I decided to try it out on dry land first (since I noticed strider had shrivelley balls this morning, too much soaking? :giggle: ), and it went so good! I had cheerios spread out, and they all took a nibble here and there. here's a video compilation (of just the 'key moments'; scuffles and funny stuff). the last minute is HILARIOUS! (noodle and strider appear to be pretending to be occupied so milky will leave them alone? and milky slinks on the ground like a snake!) rats never cease to amaze me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksInD0pumXI



and yes, milky still seems to be the one instigating all attacks even though he's the neutered one. I think it's because A) it's only been a month since his neuter, and B) he's attacking out of fear and not true aggression. I think I'm going to continue waterless bathroom intros until they stop fighting at all, then move onto neutral territory. does that sound good?
 
That video is THE BEST! :happydance: I laughed my *ss off. I made so much noise, my husband had to come see.......then he laughed his *ss off!
Lovedddddd the video. :thumbup:
Congratulations, its working.
 
OMG... the best 7 minutes and 47 seconds I've ever spent on YouTube. That video was the best. Filled with suspense and comedy. Loved it.

Now about the trio. First I want to say kudos to you for continuing. So many people would have freaked out by the first scuffle and given up but you persisted and you are doing great. I must say, you are quite brave putting your hand near them when there's tension. The fact that they snap out of the red zone to recognize your hand is fab. Next time, what you could try when there's so much butt in your face, put your hand over Milky's head/neck and push downward. That will be dominating him and telling him to cool it. Be firm with the hold down, don't give him a chance to come up, you let him up after say 5 seconds. He might squeal like a pig but that's ok. He might also go sulk in a corner, let him. This might help with the intro process. Strider is a good boy, he's trying to overtake Milky but in a non aggressive way. At one point Milky was on his back. Good!

And... love your bathroom floor!!
 
anyone have any idea what the 'snake crawl' (in the last minute) means? even after I took out noodle and strider (20 minutes were up), milky slunk on the floor like that for a bit!

so I should interrupt their scuffles? I thought they had to work it out amongst themselves, but if you think me pinning milky down whenever he gets excited would be better, I could try that! I'm just really relieved that there's hope yet, because otherwise I'd have to buy another CN and probably look for a female rat to accompany milky. I'm glad you guys liked their little video, haha! I take one every time now so I know exactly how much time has passed, and I can go back and watch things in slow-mo to see who instigated a fight. :wink2:
 
The snaking could mean a number of things, from marking to just being tired.
Let the scuffles go but once in a while stop it with a firm push away on Milky.
Keep up the good work, you'll get there!!
 
oh I thought 'snaking' was some sort of ultimate ninja fighting tactic! :lol: but today I realized you're absolutely right, it does look to be tired. I didn't need to do the dominance pushing tonight, as milky wasn't puffing as much (and when he did nobody cared). they ignored each other for most of the 20 minutes, with noodle and strider more interested in the cheerios! however, noodle & milky did have "one" huge scuffle about 15 minutes in, there was so much squeaking I was afraid someone got hurt, but fortunately no blood (that I found anyway). *whew* and after that noodle was wagging his tail (I heard that was a sign of true aggression??) and sidling sideways all around the room. I saw him do that a bit yesterday, but not as much as today. however, other than that one fight, it was peaceful.

strider got a GOOD sniffing of milky's missing manhood, which milky wasn't too happy about but obliged perhaps due to tiredness.
here's a video of the fight, the sniffing, and the tiredness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vuj3vjrufe8





I feel so terrible to be causing all this stress on milky, but I guess it's all for the best! once they're friends it'll be sooo dandy. I also don't know if I should dominance push milky at all, since he's already so stressed from feeling inferior (I think! since he is the smallest and oldest/weakest). I felt so sorry I just sat with him alone afterwards and fed him cheerios (he didn't dare go near the pile of cheerios when the other two were around, and only ate half of the one I gave him). I've been giving him soymilk instead of water since he's so scrawny, is that ok?
IMG_4089.jpg

IMG_4096.jpg

(poor baby crawled up to me and laid down, made me feel so guilty! eep)
 
"I have no balls, leave me alone"... :laugh4:

He's trying hard to be alpha but it ain't happening. Noodle is not letting go of the position.
The tail wagging is not a sign of true aggression, but one of stress and even excitement.
If those rats had any aggressiveness in them, you'd have some torn open rats already.
Keep it up!
 
:urock:

That first video is the funniest thing ever - I was dying at the captions.. Butt in your face Butt in your face :laugh4:

Seriously, you are brave for keeping it up with the squabbles and all. It looks like they're slowly working it out. Poor Milky is all stressed isn't he? If he'd just trust Noodle to take over... I hope he does soon.

That one Strider/Milky roll at the end of the second vid isn't something I've seen a rat do before - He must have been pretty tired at that point? Have other people seen that? Something I'll file away for reference.

Anyways, they're a good lookin' set of boys! And it's great that the scuffles aren't leading to bloodshed - they're respecting each other already to some extent. Yey!
 
^as for the roll, I think it was from tiredness. he started lying down around the 18 minute mark, and just fell over into a 'roll' I believe.
ahh, tail wagging as a sign of excitement and stress, sounds reasonable. strider wagged his tail tonight!
I can't believe noodle is alpha, since he's the youngest. I've always assumed strider was alpha (he was, anyway) but I guess noodle overpowered him permanently sometime this past month! it's funny too because I've always thought of noodle as the silly/spastic/brainless one, and here he is being all macho and alpha. :laugh4:

I appreciate everyone's help & insight!





hmm... ok so today milky got in a fight with strider (yesterday was all noodle & milky, while strider sat in the corner eating cheerios mostly; today noodle was the one sitting out pigging on cheerios!), and I noticed 'dust' flying. then upon closer inspection I realized it was fur--strider's fur! and yes, there is a (sliiiightly bloody) scratch mark. it wasn't exactly bleeding, but the skin did break a bit. was there no blood all these days only because milky missed his mark? nobody's tried to bite milky yet, or maybe because his luxurious fur is too thick to get through. :lol: but really, I found a slash on strider's nose. it looks painful (right down the middle of his sensitive pink nose!), but isn't bleeding out either.

so after the fight, once I'd inspected strider I put him down and started to inspect milky in my lap (was going to put them all back after that), but noodle jumped up too and strider crawled up after him! I do have a video but I don't have time to upload tonight. it was surprisingly peaceful, despite the tension (all three of them crowded on my lap!). a LOT of squeaking from milky, but no challenging/biting! this went on for 5 minutes before I decided to end it on a non-violent note (tonight's intro was a bit over 25 minutes).


I was going to move them out to "happier" territory soon, but looks like I'll have to keep doing bathroom intros, perhaps even moving them into the bathtub tomorrow. arrg. oh, and also, milky STILL squeaks in his cage (which is next to the big cage). every day. once in a while, without fail. hmm...
 
Milky might be a talker and always squeak.
I've had some bites/blood with intros and I still didn't stop. I only stop if I see real aggression, teeth chattering, attacks to the scrotum and stomach.
I would start pressing down on their hands on each rat that get puffy. See how they react to that?
 
oh, milky always chatters his teeth (should I be worried?)! especially after a scuffle. no successful attacks to the scrotum/stomach yet though!
alright, I'll start pressing their heads. I would feel terrible doing it to milky since he's already so, well, pathetically weak, but if that would restore order I'll do it. I can't tell if any other rat gets puffy, if they do it isn't as obvious. they don't make that 'hff hff hff' sound, or start dancing around sideways.
 

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