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Welcome to the rat shack.


Just an FYI on your CO2 euthanasia. It does cause pain. It burns the lungs as they are dying. There are reasons why vets do not use CO2 anymore.
 
Whipple said:
I think if I am going to be chastised for owning rats for other than keeping them as play toys, well thats too bad. This is why people don't take care of their rats, because other owners are not as open as owners of other types of pets. I feel sorry for you. I enjoyed watching videos of your rats, ect, but when someone comes asking for help, you can't just say "Please don't mention this topic" but you have to beat it into me. I have been on other forums, and this is the first time this has happened. But I guess thats how it is when its ruled by one very righteous owner.

If I had been told simply to stop, I would've, gladly.
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I feel sorry for you. You want to have a rat for a pet, and yet you want to feed her offspring to a snake? How warped is that? If you love your rat that much how dare you go feeding her offspring to a snake? Rats have feelings too. Snakes may need to eat, but there are HUMANE ways of doing it and using CO2 to euthanize them is not humane.

BESIDES if you are giving CO2 to pinkies it will not kill them!!!! They do not absorb the CO2

I know that because sadly I have seen it done in the research field. Euthanizing pinkies is not a pleasant thing.
 
Although we are all sensitive to the topic of rats being fed to snakes, they do need to eat. Regardless of our various opinions on the topic, one remains true with all of us - we believe it should happen ethically, with much thought and care put into it. I love snakes, and if I ever were to have one, I would purchase pre-killed, frozen prey from a reputable source. I honestly don't understand how people can keep both pet rats, and feeder rats, and not feel anything toward the situation.

Simply because we don't like to hear about snakes eating rats, and the different practices that go into that (ie. breeding feeders), doesn't mean we're shutting our eyes to something and we're ignorant/naive about it; nor does it mean we're radicals with irrational beliefs that aren't based in reality.

As stated by Jo, this is a pet rat forum. Please take that into consideration.
 
As I see it, you were politely told that you needed to separate your sexes, as rats are sexually mature at very young ages. You then went into how you planned on breeding the young females for feeders and that you were intending to practice at home euthanasia.

You were then [and I quote] respectfully asked to not discuss the topic any further. At which point you went into a tirade about how unfair and unjust the world is that you couldn't come onto a pet rat forum and discuss feeder breeding, at home euths, and the supposed naiveties of this forum.

Yes, you will get more sympathy for your feeder issues and the plight of rat owners vs feeder breeders at a snake forum. I'm sure they'll love to hear all about every aspect of your pet owning/breeding experience.

Here, you will get the most up to date medical and behavioral information available to pet owners, as well as first hand experience. You will receive the collective support of this forum in your time of need. All of that on one single condition. That you leave your attitude and your personal views on feeder breeding at the door.
 
I respect you for being honest and open about what you are doing. You are quite welcome to stay and discuss your rats. But because we are pet rat owners discussing what you are doing will be very hard to stomach for many if not all. I would suggest that little part of your life be kept to your snake forum.

I am not a vegetarian, I eat meat, that's my choice, your choice is feeding your snakes rats that you breed and kill at home. I don't agree with it but it's your choice.

I hope you stay because there are a lot of people who have a lot of knowledge in keeping rats happy and healthy. We love rats.
 
I am sorry to everyone I offended. I am not going to mention the subject of snakes in the furture. I've never met anyone so passionate about rodents, and the way I was raised was that they're just animals. Sorry, I cannot help that. I want to take care of mine, properly, and on a snake forum, I will not get that help. They keep racks of rats, with little more.....sorry. Anyhow, it's not the help i want.

I will keep my posts limited to questions, as obviously I do not know the limits, and I do not fully understand your passion for rats. Again I am sorry, but when I have ten people repeating the same thing, I get defensive. I understood a few posts in that i should not have mentioned it. I did not need ten more posts repeating it. It seemed like an outright attack(even if that's not what it was).

IMHO, many animals should have stayed in the wild, including rats. Not just snakes or lizards, or things that eat rats and mice.
 
Whipple said:
IMHO, many animals should have stayed in the wild, including rats. Not just snakes or lizards, or things that eat rats and mice.
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I would have to disagree with this (just discussing it though no attack) because our rats (my fiance and I) have brought us great joy. If you had asked me 2 years ago if I would ever own a rat I would have told you no way. I was able to take care of my stepbrothers rat for 3 months and learned what wonderful animals they can be. They are great for me, because I am allergic to cats, a dog is out of the question for me at the moment due to limited space. I am not a fan of hamsters. I find rats to be the perfect pet in my opinion. I can cuddle them without having an allergic reaction and they love to be cuddled. They are extremely intellegent, adoring and loveable. I even think they are more intellegent then a dog, but that is my opinion.

Glad you can be here and ask the questions you need.
 
I'm not saying I'm not glad to have these animals, rats, horses, snakes, fish, ect in our lives. But if everything had stayed in nature, we wouldn't have to worry about bad breeding, or feeding snakes, or puppy mills, ect. Of course we would have other worries, and the joy of owning a pet cannot come without knowing that there are people just barely keeping their animals alive.

So, yes, it's great that we have rats. Its great we have snakes (so pretty to look at, it'd only be better if those snake sausages were available for retail sale), and horses, and birds too. But they should have ALL stayed in the wild. Of course there is no way they can go back, so we do our best to take care of the ones we have.

I hope i made my point clearer
 
I have seen an episode on animal planet and the snake sausages, apparently it's really a good food for snakes.

Thinking on it... I would have to agree with you too. I wish all animals could have been left in the wild if it means that NONE would ever suffer at the hands of a human. :wink:
 
jorats said:
I have seen an episode on animal planet and the snake sausages, apparently it's really a good food for snakes.

Thinking on it... I would have to agree with you too. I wish all animals could have been left in the wild if it means that NONE would ever suffer at the hands of a human. :wink:
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Snake Sausages are available to the public I will find the site and post it for everyone.

And I agree If I had to live without pets so that they would no longer suffer I would in a heartbeat
 
I checked one site, and emailed them to clarify. I was told they are not available to private collectors/owners. If you know of another source, that'd be great.
 
Don't worry Bruxxy so did I.

Yes I would have to agree with that comment. If they were left alone in mother nature to their own devices without human intervention then yes I agree with that.
 
I wasn't sure what they were either until I looked it up :( Whipple, I found a site from new york that sells them if you want it, PM me for the address, I won't post it on here out of respect for owners

By the way Whipple. Welcome to the Rat Shack :D
 
Definately a big welcome to the rat shack! I hope you can enjoy yourself here, for in my opinion, it's the best pet rat forum I've seen!

The thing people have to understand is that everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Another thing is that there is always going to be instances where your opinions don't match, or even severely clash with others. THAT'S THE WAY LIFE IS. But that certainly doesn't mean that there has to be arguments about them.

In my opinion (and I'm just saying this because I want you to know that you aren't being victimized or anything) I think it's wonderful that you joined the forum for the chance to meet other people who enjoy their little sweethearts like you do. Your babies certainly are precious! And there are others on this forum who own snakes and rats, so that's nothing abnormal.

But you'll have to realize that people here may and will be touchy about the subject of having herps, so please don't be upset about that. I think both sides have to realize that it's only their opinion, and that you can't change the opinions of others. You can say your thoughts, and maybe offer some advice, but I don't think it's fair for any side to put down the other just because of what they think.

Just be careful where you mention your snakes, for the obvious reason that people can feel strongly about that subject. It doesn't mean at all that you can't be here, but just understand that you'll have to watch what and where you say that sort of thing here. You'll avoid a lot of unnecessary drama that way!

If I may offer a thought about the topic of having your rats as feeders, though? A friend of mine has many herps and inverts, as well as rats, and for a time she was considering breeding for herself just to save the hastle of buying from pet stores (since they're expensive and certainly not the best health-wise, so I'm sure that's a concern for the snakes eating them). I did share with her my feelings on the matter, but also asked her if it were possible that she could look into someone in the area who bred them. I know that that still isn't the best possible outcome, because they'd still be bred for feeders, but atleast that way SHE wasn't the one doing it, and she would also have the security of knowing that these ones were cared for, unlike what they would be like in a pet store.

That may be a possibility for you, if you wanted to look into it. I don't know, I understand that snakes have to eat, and that snake sausages as previously mentioned aren't always readily available, but I think I would feel better that I wasn't a part of the whole thing, you know? Maybe that doesn't give me the best impression to others, but that's what in this situation, I think would be the easiest thing.

If you were still wanting to breed them, maybe you could contact a veterinarian and brainstorm with them what would be the best option for the little ones, for I know a lot of at-home methods are inhumane.

In any case, good luck, and I hope you can still enjoy the forums here! And to others, I hope my opinions here are okay to post. If not, please let me know!
 
Riana, thanks for that. Actually I have looked into other options, and found on a pet rat site a method that is supposed to be humane. I asked snake owners if it would harm the snakes and I got a not so nice response. So until I can find a method that works for both I am not aquiring a snake. I honestly thought that Co2 was humane, but after reading how a human tested it on herself, I know differently.
Anyhow, as I said before I am seperating my boys and girls, just sooner than expected. I am getting my boyfriend to build a big girl cage and my two boys will stay in their small cage (for now).
Anyhow, I think we all could have reacted better, but I understand your stance on it. And I am going to PM you Chicky82 about the sausages. That'd be a great option. As I know that all feeder breeders in the area are horrid ones, like in the example link I posted before.

Again, thank you Riana, I appreciate how you stated everything.
 
I can definately understand how both parties acted though. It's unhappy to think about harming such wonderful little ratties for ANY reason, but snakes do have to eat. I think that if it has to be done, then try to do it as humanely as possible. I always think of it as the animal is giving its life to help another, and I think it's necessary to thank that animal for it.

I'm glad to hear you're holding off on things for a bit, to be honest. Even without the wishy-washy topic of morals, that's a lot of stress on yourself! If you can avoid it, then it's better! I think that for any situation!

Good luck. I really hope you can still enjoy this community, because it really is a great one!

ETA: In case you haven't seen this before, http://www.dapper.com.au/cagebuild.htm is a great page for building your own cage! I think you have to be conscious about the stink potential with using wood, but I think melamite is different? You'd need to look into that though, cause I'm not sure. :p

I honestly thought that Co2 was humane, but after reading how a human tested it on herself, I know differently.
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I think the important thing is you know now. No one can say badly of you, because we're ALL constantly learning, it just so happened yours was a bit more of a touchy subject than some, you know?

ETA 2:
Riana, thanks for that. Actually I have looked into other options, and found on a pet rat site a method that is supposed to be humane. I asked snake owners if it would harm the snakes and I got a not so nice response.
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Given this experience, if you were to pursue things, it may certainly be more beneficial to look into talking to a vet. The vet would have the best interest of the rat/mouse in mind, AS WELL as what's best for the herp.

Ok, enough second-reading posts :p
 
The method is actually one vets use, and you have to get the stuff from a vet. But it's hard to obtain because it's a "vet-only" product. It starts with an H. So I have no choice but to talk to a vet. If possible I might be able to find a breeder who works with this stuff or something. I want the rats getting the best possible life before it ending (as it should be in any circumstance) but I want to make sure my snake has healthy food. Not easy, snake owners tend not to care much about the rats welfare.

Anyhow, my girls will have new cage-mates soon. And the big cage is being fasioned after the Grotto. If you've heard (I'm sure you have - Dapper Rat), it looks like an awesome basic design.
 

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