Evie update with video, is this girl ok???

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Petunia

Petunia

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Messages
6,126
Location
USA
Things have been going very well with the addition of a pair of bonded neutered boys to my colony of five girls

At first, it looked like Teddy was going to claim Top spot, as he clearly dominates his buddy Owen. But the girls quickly let him know they were not going to be bossed around by a mere male LOL

so now it appears that Hope is still Top Rat, and everyone seems to respect that, although she needs to remind Teddy and sometimes Brenna and Smidgen with a few nudges and some serious sidling.

Teddy will puff up at first, but he backs down quickly.

inside the cage, all is well most of the time.There was one altercation that I didn't witness, I only saw the aftermath, and it looked like Teddy or Owen bit Evie's foot. It bled a lot, so I put some flour on it and that slowed it down, then it stopped and she was ok. She was on some ibu for a couple of days til the swelling went down. She recovered fast, ratty fast, lol

so, now all is well as i was saying, inside the cage

but Owen and Teddy have a harder time when they come out of the cage. Owen knows how to behave when approached by one of the girls with the intention of putting him/keeping him in his place, he freezes and lets them sniff him etc til he gets a signal that its ok to carry on. How they communicate this, I have no idea, there's no sounds at all, they just seem to know when its ok to go about their business.
*shrug*
mine is not to question why, mine is just to observe and marvel at the intricacies woven into rat social relationships and hierarchies. :giggle:


But poor Teddy, he is so full of energy and wants so much to run and play, he's come out of the cage and had a few precious moments of fun
and then Evie catches wind of him, and chases him round and round til he runs back in the cage and hides
Evie is so fierce when she does this that it scares even Brenna, who is not even involved.

so, now when it's play time, Paige is out first, as always!! and then Evie and Brenna and Smidgen and Hope, who comes out just to check out her Queendom and then goes back to over see things from the second level of the cage LOL
and then Owen will venture out, sometimes I take him out and let him sit with me and watch the girls til he's got up the courage to join them,
but Teddy, Poor Teddy!
he will let me hold him but he will not go and play,
if I put him on the floor he runs back into the cage and hides from that evil Evie

what should I do? let them work it out on their own? regardless of how long it takes? (It's very hard for me to see him in the cage by himself while everyone else is out playing :sad3: )

Would it mess up their whole system, or whatever you call it LOL, if I take him out to play by himself or with just a couple of others?
and if that's ok, should it be where Evie can't see us?

Evie, by the way, is the smallest rat I have. Teddy is not yet the biggest but he and Owen likely will be, when full grown (they're around 9 mos now)
Paige is the next largest rat, but she's er, fluffy, if you know what I mean :giggle: solidly "fluffy" lol

Hope is the oldest & has always been the alpha. Although now it looks like Evie is gunning to take that spot if/when Hope passes on.
 
Evie sounds like a hallway monitor clipboard and all. Maybe a bit of a time out for her?
 
Jo might be able to answer that better I epically fail at them :(

I have tried a million times but never been able to pull it off with a rat. I did with the ferrets but not the rats.

I know i was putting them in the cat carrier with nothing in it. Or a small cage for a few minutes. I just say my rats names and they generally stop.
 
Well your first problem is that you named her Evie. My mom's Evie was the very same way. lol Notice what happens when you change the last letter to L? haha

Ok, I would do a time out cage. You need a very small cage with nothing in it, no water, no food. Each time Evie goes into a frenzy, you pick her up, say a firm NO and place her in the cage for 10 to 15 minutes. Do this each time she goes into bully mode.
 
jorats said:
Well your first problem is that you named her Evie. My mom's Evie was the very same way. lol Notice what happens when you change the last letter to L? haha

Ok, I would do a time out cage. You need a very small cage with nothing in it, no water, no food. Each time Evie goes into a frenzy, you pick her up, say a firm NO and place her in the cage for 10 to 15 minutes. Do this each time she goes into bully mode.
Click to expand...


OK I think you could be right about the name.........am seriously thinking I should change it! :nod:

actually I am wondering if there might be something physically wrong with this girl, I've never had a rat act quite like this before.

I didn't see what happened earlier today, but I found Teddy in a corner licking his bleeding toe. Looks like the nail was bitten- or maybe ripped? - off.

Don't want to accuse anyone without proof, but let's just say, Evie was in a "mood". I was taking care of Teddy, putting some cornstarch on his foot to stop the bleeding and I hear a bunch of squeaking and howling from the rat room
so, i go in and there's Evie all puffed up
challenging any one who came near her.

Now mind you, there's no treats in the cage, just lab blocks, so I don't know what set this girl off, but she was like a Tazmanian devil.

I took her out and put her in the empty g.pig cage, and she was just going bananas in there, trying to chew her way out.
I took a video of it; if you want to hear me talking on it, you need to put the volume up pretty high. I don't know if I'm just very soft spoken or if there's a setting I need to change on the camera to pick up sound better.
http://youtu.be/vF0fyDU5ZgE

right after the video ended, she was chewing on the thing I'd secured the cage closed with, that little bungee cord, so I ended up taking her out of the cage, and putting her in the bonding pouch for awhile til she finally settled down. (I had to get some work done and couldn't sit much longer to watch and make sure she didn't chew her way out :roll: :giggle: )

Then I put her back in the cage and all has been well since; it's been oh, about 3 hrs now.

Jo, I did do a time out with her one time before, but I forgot to have a cage ready, so I just held her (she is not one of the rats who enjoys being held, so I think for her, it was really a time out- several of the other rats love to be held and snuggled but her and Paige have shown no interest in this at all- Funny most of my PEWS have been like this. They might come around in the later months(over 18mos), but when they are still healthy and young, they don't like being held)

is there any chance she's like, sick or something? or is this within the normal range for rat behavior?

still consider myself a newbie to rats, haven't had that many- and it's just coming up to the end of my 3rd year with em.
 
I'll watch the vid when I get home.
But, this behavior start out of the blue? Or did something trigger it? New cage, new toys, diiferent out time?
Being held is not a time out. So if you can get a cage ready. Preferably a tiny hamster cage.
 
sorry that video made me giggle! Mally bit me one time, well one time that mally bit me, i put her in a cage with a lid.....nut job was on the ground jumping straight up trying to head bump the lid off the glass aquarium i used.

That girl is a BUNDLE energy. She does not approve of being put in that cage LOL she wants out and looks like she will taste test every bar to see if she can get out.

I dont see anything that is sick related or harmful other than you have a pika on your hands! :laugh4:

how old is she?
 
She is not enjoying being in the cage, so I think it is an effective time-out. You just need to secure it in a non-chewable way. Not all intros go well, and are all done and settled in a few days. My latest intro took months to work out, and just as things settled down, I rescued Petunia and her babies. I put their cage next door - the new rats upset the apple cart and fights and domination started again. It can go on for a while.
 
Just watched the vid, pretty normal for a rat wanting to come out of a cage. She's just a hyper determined kid. If you want to keep that as your punishment cage, I still would find a smaller one, no bedding or anything in it. She can't have anything to do like burrowing. It has to be very boring.
 
jorats said:
I'll watch the vid when I get home.
But, this behavior start out of the blue? Or did something trigger it? New cage, new toys, diiferent out time?
Being held is not a time out. So if you can get a cage ready. Preferably a tiny hamster cage.
Click to expand...


ack, I moved the cage and they were out at a different time than usual and for a lot longer (almost 3 hrs)

so she's sensitive to change, this girl, eh?

most of my rats have enjoyed a change of scenery, or an extra playtime, never had it upset anyone before (or maybe it did, but I didn't notice because I wasn't thinking there'd be a problem...?)
 
jorats said:
Just watched the vid, pretty normal for a rat wanting to come out of a cage. She's just a hyper determined kid. If you want to keep that as your punishment cage, I still would find a smaller one, no bedding or anything in it. She can't have anything to do like burrowing. It has to be very boring.
Click to expand...


oops we posted at the same time, I guess

well in light of the changes today, do you still think she'd need a time out, or maybe holding her was the right thing to do, since she may have been upset and that would have been my fault, not hers.

I mean, she's been fine since.
Yes yes I know, I"m a complete pushover, just ask my daughter!! :giggle: she admits to me now how she'd just keep pestering me and pestering me, cuz she knew eventually she could wear me down (or out, or both LOL)
 
Yes, so if it's due to changes, holding her and reassuring her, that was perfect but if she's being a bully just because she wants to be a bully, then the out time cage is what she needs.
Some rats absolutely hate changes in their routine. My sister always had a few of those and it was so weird to see that behaviour change in them.
 
jorats said:
Yes, so if it's due to changes, holding her and reassuring her, that was perfect but if she's being a bully just because she wants to be a bully, then the out time cage is what she needs.
Some rats absolutely hate changes in their routine. My sister always had a few of those and it was so weird to see that behaviour change in them.
Click to expand...


oh whew! good to know. yeh I guess I get a time out for not realizing that I caused her upset!
:oops:

I just knew it was unusual for her, she's always been sweet and kind of quiet, never bothered any one before, that's what made me think maybe she was sick or something.

since I'm accustomed to rats accepting changes fairly easily, that wasn't even on my list of possible reasons.
So glad I posted
and then took the time to RE read your questions, Jo- the first time I read it, that whole sentence about possible changes "went in one ear and out the other", so to speak :giggle:
wow it's so true that you see what you are expecting to see, or are looking for.
:/

well I made it up to her, I had her out this morning in the bonding scarf for a long cuddle, with Owen,
Then took Brenna and Teddy out.
Hope Smidgen and Paige are awaiting their turns
:wink:
 
How is she acting now? It is cause for concern when the behaviour is just out of character, if there were no changes, then I would be worried for a neurological event.
 
jorats said:
How is she acting now? It is cause for concern when the behaviour is just out of character, if there were no changes, then I would be worried for a neurological event.
Click to expand...


well funny you should ask............... she's been fine in the cage, and she was fine for the first half hour of play time outside of the cage
and then, I don't know what set her off, but suddenly she was pushing Brenna and Smidgen around, they backed off fast, but she came after Owen, who doesn't know what else to do, I guess, besides run like "he-dble hockey sticks" :lol: (and wow can he run fast!)

she chased him around til he got inside a hut to hide.
I tried to pick Evie up, she tried to bite me...!! (any time there were fights with other rats not one ever tried to bite ME!)

I grabbed a towel but she was too fast, so I spent a few minutes just blocking her access to Owen with whatever else was handy, to avoid being bitten,
and then she ran off, sniffing all over the place, with every one else, I mean EVERYONE ELSE- me, and all of the other rats LOL watching her, frozen in fright, because she was just a little whirling dervish!

She ended up going into that g pig cage and I took that opportunity to close her in. I know it would've been better to catch her in the act of chasing after the other rats, and telling her no first
but this was the best I could manage at the time.

She was securely latched in, and the rest of the rats relaxed and went back to playing,
while Evie went beserk trying to get out of the time out cage.

I took a video of that, and will upload it soon. She even didn't notice when the other rats were able to slip past me and run across the top of the time out cage (I spent a lot of time shoo-ing them away, if she had seen them she probably would have tried to bite them thru the bars- I accidentally let one of my fingers get too close and she tried to bite it!)

so, I kept her in there for a full 15 mins. at least, and then when she stopped trying to get out and sat still, I opened the cage door. She didn't notice right off, and went on grooming herself and sniffing around, and then she calmly walked out the door and went back to exploring.

she came face to face with all of the three rats she'd been fighting with before, and nothing happened. Teddy and Owen and her all explored the same laundry basket at the same time, and a few other things as well; their paths crossed several times, with no other incidents.

so! I think I did the time out ok, since she did settle down. But this is out of character for her, so I am thinking I should take her with me when I get Hope checked out, just in case there's something else going on..........? I don't see any other signs of illness and no other obvious neuro signs, no circling, no head pressing, nothing like that. what else would I want to look for?

I'm hoping it's just her adjusting to having two more rats running around in "her" play area. She really only has tiffs with the other active rats- which used to be just Brenna and Smidgen, but now includes the two young boys.

The tiffs with the girls were much shorter and ended with no residual resentments. They settled things quickly and went about their business.

I don't know if the boys are just inexperienced with dealing with a wacko female LOL or if the fact that they are newbies, is what makes their spats worse than the ones with the girls, or what.
Owen runs away. Teddy has faced off with her and she backed down, so I think the two of them have settled things for the time being. But Owen is a lover, not a fighter, and he will not stand up to her, at least, not yet.

it sure is interesting! I am not really upset about this change in the group dynamics, it's too interesting to be upsetting. I don't like fighting and I don't like having to discipline anyone, but it's been a learning experience that I wouldn't trade for all the peace and quiet of all on single gender group.

They all do so much more together, now than when there was just the girls.

and the boys give me kisses, an definite added plus :heart:
 
:thumbup:

the only downside, really, to having the new boys, is that NONE of the regular housework is getting done
:lol:
I just want to play with my rats, or check on them often to see who is sleeping on, or under, or next to, whom :giggle:
they are so sweet together
 
lilspaz68 said:
Althea, you need to post the video link for everyone :)
Click to expand...


the second video hasn't finished uploading yet, my computer decided to shut itself down last night while It was being uploaded :roll:
I think Jorat's is just responding to what I wrote, cuz she's not seen the second video either :giggle:

It's almost done uploading now, cross your fingers it finishes without a crash and I'll be back to post it :wink2:
 

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