Melissa's ZOO
Well-Known Member
As soon as my girls are awake and walking normal I put them right back in with their cagemates, usually the very next morning after surgery. Other rats will rarely mess with another rats incision area.
Do you guys think this would be a complete rat diet?
- Thread starter Christie
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SQ : I was just typing out what I was reading, in case anyone didn't want to go read it for themselves. I know I hate having to go back and forth from web pages for a tiny tidbit of info.
Jo : I meant that there's probably only going to be 2-3 flakes per Bowl. Not per serving per rat. Because it is Buffet Style, there is no way to say that Rat 1 will get the exact same amount as Rat 2 did. There's also no way to say that they didn't. It still remains that the actual amount would be in the less than a gram. 0.001g of sugar is infinitesimally small.
Ratlover : If she's only getting a tumor removal, I wouldn't separate. You don't really need to feed them anything special after a surgery, they don't need the extra protein in order to make them heal faster or anything. It is a good way to say "I'm so sorry you had to go through that!" and to ease your guilt at the pitiful expressions they give you.
Jo : I meant that there's probably only going to be 2-3 flakes per Bowl. Not per serving per rat. Because it is Buffet Style, there is no way to say that Rat 1 will get the exact same amount as Rat 2 did. There's also no way to say that they didn't. It still remains that the actual amount would be in the less than a gram. 0.001g of sugar is infinitesimally small.
Ratlover : If she's only getting a tumor removal, I wouldn't separate. You don't really need to feed them anything special after a surgery, they don't need the extra protein in order to make them heal faster or anything. It is a good way to say "I'm so sorry you had to go through that!" and to ease your guilt at the pitiful expressions they give you.
Christie
Well-Known Member
Thank you. I was just thinking, since she was gonna have stiches, that her sister might hurt her or something like that. Just makes me a worried Mommy. lol
SQ
Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
relocated ...
anita1216
Well-Known Member
Its interesting about the different levels of protien in the HT. I spent two hours talking to one of the people that was part of the formulation of the 2018 and he said that rats do not process the 2014 or 2018 any differently :doh: He also said that the vast majority of their colonies are fed the 2018, not the 2014 that so many people think is used.
It does get rather overwhelming, but I do agree that lower fats/protien is a better way to feed. I also think rationing food is not a good way to feed rats. They have an extremely high metabolism and should have food available at all times. I know a couple of breeders that ration blocks and the rats look sickly. They want the rats to be slim and trim, nothing wrong with that, but it just makes the animals look gaunt. At the very least ration enough for them to maintain a good weight.
It does get rather overwhelming, but I do agree that lower fats/protien is a better way to feed. I also think rationing food is not a good way to feed rats. They have an extremely high metabolism and should have food available at all times. I know a couple of breeders that ration blocks and the rats look sickly. They want the rats to be slim and trim, nothing wrong with that, but it just makes the animals look gaunt. At the very least ration enough for them to maintain a good weight.
leonakitty
Member
"Do people who feed their rats dog food buy the best brands that actually use good ingrediants instead of crap - doubt many do because it would be more expensive."
I certainly feed the best brand possible. Their staple food costs me $18 for a 4.4 lb bag. I know I'll get crap for this, but my rats are actually vegetarians, have been their whole lives with me, and do very well. Their diet is also all organic and all the food is purchased at Whole Foods - so no artificial anything, no colors, no flavors, no trans fats, no hydrogenated oils, MSG, etc.
Their staple is PetGuard Organic Vegetarian.
INGREDIENTS: Organic Quinoa, Organic Oat Meal, Organic Ground Barley, Organic Brown Rice, Organic Dried Eggs, Organic Sunflower Oil, Organic Apples, Organic Peas, Organic Carrots, Organic Potatoes, Organic Flaxseed, Organic Amaranth, Organic Kelp, Organic Cranberries, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Ascorbate (Source Of Vitamin C), Choline Chloride, Vitamin A Supplement, D-Alpha Tocopherol, Calciferol (Source Of Vitamin D), Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Inositol, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Source Of Vitamin B6), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Calcium Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Folic Acid, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Sodium Selenite.
They DEVOUR it and love it very much. They get limited grain mix but fresh fruit/veg/cooked grains/baby food/soy dairy plus supplements like flax oil for omega 3s, nutritional yeast for B vites, green mush, probiotics and I add powdered copper/vitamin K to their baby food about once a week, more if I remember.
I do a modified Suebee's but not modified in a 'I'll add cheaper, crappier cereals" way. Rather, I've modified in the other direction. All organics, a wide variety of less processed grains (they get things like millet, quinoa, kamut, brown rice, amaranth, spelt, etc. - I feel a BIG variety of foods = more balanced. Each food has it's own micronutrients and benefits.), only organic, freeze-dried veg with no added crap, and avoiding corn/soy/wheat in the staple as much as possible (I'd rather feed these in the form of fresh veg or organic soy-based dairy, in smallish amounts).
All the kids are slim. I've only had one fattish rat (522 gram neutered male) and it seems that being big ran in his family, looking at his brothers. Sully was definitely thinner than his burly chubby brothers. He succumbed to pneumonia induced via his CHF Saturday. He was my youngest non-surgical death at 16 months. Two of his sisters died younger than him (different owners) and his mother died at a 18 months, the day before he passed (also different owner). Of the four siblings left, at least two are showing signs of CHF/heart issues. I do not think his diet made him ill. If anything, he was healthy right up until the month before he passed.
My rats are all rescues - some from HSUS, some from rescues, some from rehomes, so keep in mind I'm working with unknown genes, or, in the case of my Frannie and Sully, known bad genes. PT/bad URI and CHF running strongly in the lines, respectively.
I've lost rats due to PT (Fran, 21 months), cancer (Sophie, 22 months - spayed rat with uterine cancer? Very rare.), chest tumor (Bev, 22 months), old age (Mattie 30 months), and CHF/pneumonia (Sully, 16 months) plus one surgical mishap (Jonesy, 10 months). My oldest right now is 30 months and looks healthy as can be - I think she's been on meds twice in her life. I've got one a bit over two now who is doing splendidly (Mae from HVRR, for those who met her while she was with Kaia) plus two mid-aged gents at 18 months who are amazingly fit and handsome boys. The vast majority of my rats are vibrantly healthy up until they come down with what ends up killing them. I've only had one rat (Fran) who was chronically ill with URI/myco things. I've had no mammary tumors.
I think my kids are right in there with other folks who've had rescues. We don't have as good a luck since our rats are coming with genetic stuff we don't know about. Mine are all shiny furred, bright eyed, good weights, do not get chronically ill, and have high energy and pep. Rats who are showing deficiencies would show it in their fur, skin, weight and would start getting ill easier, due to malnourishment.
I feel like this diet is a good one, the rats like it, my vet approves and I do not think my rats are dying younger or of illness that vary wildly from those who feed blocks. If anything, I like how few chronically ill rats I've had. Most present with symptoms and need to be PTS only days later, due to the inoperable or uncurable nature of their illnesses. It sucks to lose them so fast, but it's better for them to be healthy right up until the end, I think.
Sorry so long!
Melissa
I certainly feed the best brand possible. Their staple food costs me $18 for a 4.4 lb bag. I know I'll get crap for this, but my rats are actually vegetarians, have been their whole lives with me, and do very well. Their diet is also all organic and all the food is purchased at Whole Foods - so no artificial anything, no colors, no flavors, no trans fats, no hydrogenated oils, MSG, etc.
Their staple is PetGuard Organic Vegetarian.
INGREDIENTS: Organic Quinoa, Organic Oat Meal, Organic Ground Barley, Organic Brown Rice, Organic Dried Eggs, Organic Sunflower Oil, Organic Apples, Organic Peas, Organic Carrots, Organic Potatoes, Organic Flaxseed, Organic Amaranth, Organic Kelp, Organic Cranberries, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Ascorbate (Source Of Vitamin C), Choline Chloride, Vitamin A Supplement, D-Alpha Tocopherol, Calciferol (Source Of Vitamin D), Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Inositol, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Source Of Vitamin B6), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Calcium Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Folic Acid, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Sodium Selenite.
They DEVOUR it and love it very much. They get limited grain mix but fresh fruit/veg/cooked grains/baby food/soy dairy plus supplements like flax oil for omega 3s, nutritional yeast for B vites, green mush, probiotics and I add powdered copper/vitamin K to their baby food about once a week, more if I remember.
I do a modified Suebee's but not modified in a 'I'll add cheaper, crappier cereals" way. Rather, I've modified in the other direction. All organics, a wide variety of less processed grains (they get things like millet, quinoa, kamut, brown rice, amaranth, spelt, etc. - I feel a BIG variety of foods = more balanced. Each food has it's own micronutrients and benefits.), only organic, freeze-dried veg with no added crap, and avoiding corn/soy/wheat in the staple as much as possible (I'd rather feed these in the form of fresh veg or organic soy-based dairy, in smallish amounts).
All the kids are slim. I've only had one fattish rat (522 gram neutered male) and it seems that being big ran in his family, looking at his brothers. Sully was definitely thinner than his burly chubby brothers. He succumbed to pneumonia induced via his CHF Saturday. He was my youngest non-surgical death at 16 months. Two of his sisters died younger than him (different owners) and his mother died at a 18 months, the day before he passed (also different owner). Of the four siblings left, at least two are showing signs of CHF/heart issues. I do not think his diet made him ill. If anything, he was healthy right up until the month before he passed.
My rats are all rescues - some from HSUS, some from rescues, some from rehomes, so keep in mind I'm working with unknown genes, or, in the case of my Frannie and Sully, known bad genes. PT/bad URI and CHF running strongly in the lines, respectively.
I've lost rats due to PT (Fran, 21 months), cancer (Sophie, 22 months - spayed rat with uterine cancer? Very rare.), chest tumor (Bev, 22 months), old age (Mattie 30 months), and CHF/pneumonia (Sully, 16 months) plus one surgical mishap (Jonesy, 10 months). My oldest right now is 30 months and looks healthy as can be - I think she's been on meds twice in her life. I've got one a bit over two now who is doing splendidly (Mae from HVRR, for those who met her while she was with Kaia) plus two mid-aged gents at 18 months who are amazingly fit and handsome boys. The vast majority of my rats are vibrantly healthy up until they come down with what ends up killing them. I've only had one rat (Fran) who was chronically ill with URI/myco things. I've had no mammary tumors.
I think my kids are right in there with other folks who've had rescues. We don't have as good a luck since our rats are coming with genetic stuff we don't know about. Mine are all shiny furred, bright eyed, good weights, do not get chronically ill, and have high energy and pep. Rats who are showing deficiencies would show it in their fur, skin, weight and would start getting ill easier, due to malnourishment.
I feel like this diet is a good one, the rats like it, my vet approves and I do not think my rats are dying younger or of illness that vary wildly from those who feed blocks. If anything, I like how few chronically ill rats I've had. Most present with symptoms and need to be PTS only days later, due to the inoperable or uncurable nature of their illnesses. It sucks to lose them so fast, but it's better for them to be healthy right up until the end, I think.
Sorry so long!
Melissa
Christie
Well-Known Member
That is some great info Melissa. Sorry to hear about you rats 
CardboardCastles
Well-Known Member
:bow: Melissa does exactly what I always plan to do and then realize that I hardly have time to breathe, nevermind shop and prepare...and our "local" health food store is 5 or 6 towns away...
I've been proud of myself for the past few days remembering that I have lecithin (that I use for me ^_^) and yerba prima that the girls can have, though!
Baby steps!
I've been proud of myself for the past few days remembering that I have lecithin (that I use for me ^_^) and yerba prima that the girls can have, though!
Baby steps!
sausage4ever
Well-Known Member
I feed only dog food. I use a mixture of Nutro Lite (same ingredients and GA as Regal Rat) and Wellness Weight Management. It costs me about $30 every few months and the rats are extremely healthy and happy. The dog food has to be rationed or else they get really fat, really fast.
LA
Well-Known Member
I free feed and I constantly break up hordes (had big issues with hordes). My girls are not overweight at all. They eat what they need.
Christie
Well-Known Member
Um....sausage4ever, Nutri lite dog food does not have the same ingreidients as Regal rat in it. If it did, we would all be feeling it because 1)it would be easy to get and 2) it would a whole lot cheaper than Regal Rat. I know that for a fact. I have no idea why you say that. I'm sure everyone else would question that statement too.
Sausage4ever, Ratlover is correct.. Nutro Lite dog food and Regal rat aren't the same thing. They may have similar ingredients, but they have very different quantaties of things, not to mention Nutro contains Lamb Meal. Their Guaranteed Analysis is similar, but still not the same..
theratlady
Well-Known Member
SQ said:
i dont feed lower end dog food to my dogs or rats.
leonakitty
Member
CardboardCastles said:
Heh, to be fair I work at Whole Foods, so it's easy to shop there. :lol:
Also, hey, employee discount!
I'm vegan, so I'm used to balancing my own diet. I just use what I know for me and extrapolate to them, keeping in mind their higher needs for copper and K and their reduced need for vitamin C, compared to us. So far, so good.
Melissa
sausage4ever
Well-Known Member
Sorry I don't even know why I said the same becuase I know that's untrue. I find they tend to be quite similar. I believe all rats need meat in their diets and not only soy. If I remember correctly (and no one quote me on this) Regal Rat used to be purely soy with no meat protein. I have recently noticed fish meal in this diet so may begin to feed it although it will be mixed with Wellness. I have had a hard time finding Regal Rat, considering I don't have a credit card and don't purchase anything online. I only know of on rat ever on Regal Rat and he was terribly ill and constantly underwieght. I will try to get some Regal Rat through vet purchasing and use it with mine seeing as Nutro becomes increasingly crappy with each passing year. I like to mix in some Rat Ration sometimes but hate using diets with any corn that's why I opt for dog foods. I like the idea of that veggie dog food, I used to feed Mazuri but it was purely veggie, very high in protein and then Petsmart stop carrying it. I think Regal Rat might work now for me but it was completely not ideal before when I believe it was completely soy based.
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
What concerns me most about dog food is the fact that it is simply not energy dense enough.
sausage4ever
Well-Known Member
I like this seciton cuz get to learn more, I really want to begin to feed "rat" foods but seeing as oxbow is currently sold out and I have a whole bunch of dog food left over. Have to get me some good easy rat food.
How do you figure that dog food isn't energy dense enough, Jo? The Kcal is similar for both the 2014 HT pellet and.. Canidae Platinum Senior dog food.
HT lists ME Kcal/g : 3.2.
Canidae Platinum Senior Lists ME Kcal/g : 3.32
Hardly any difference.. And according to HT's own website, the ME calculations are more accurate since they allow for digestion, wastes, etc..
HT lists ME Kcal/g : 3.2.
Canidae Platinum Senior Lists ME Kcal/g : 3.32
Hardly any difference.. And according to HT's own website, the ME calculations are more accurate since they allow for digestion, wastes, etc..
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
That's what my vet said and the animal nutritionist, how they calculated, I don't know. Something about having to eat more of the dog food to make it the same to the one block.
Christie
Well-Known Member
Well I dont agree with sausage4ever, to ONLY feed dog food. I have seen Rat Ration at one of he pet stores here...is that a good food? It's by Matins.
