Do you guys think this would be a complete rat diet?

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Martins make a really good bunny food but their rat one, I'm very disappointed at the 20% protein and I believe the fat % is high as well?
 
jorats said:
That's what my vet said and the animal nutritionist, how they calculated, I don't know. Something about having to eat more of the dog food to make it the same to the one block.
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I'm not really understanding how they got to the conclusion.. I mean, the dog food and HT are by gram, and a gram of anything is the same weight. Since the dog food is smaller in size than the HT pellet, I could understand that aspect, but if you broke up HT into similarly sized pieces it'd still be the same.

Ratlover101 said:
Well I dont agree with sausage4ever, to ONLY feed dog food. I have seen Rat Ration at one of he pet stores here...is that a good food? It's by Matins.
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I think I'm looking at the correct food, Martin Mills Little Friends Mouse and Rat Ration? It looks okayish. Lots of additives I'm not familiar with, though. It does contain animal protein, so I wouldn't see the purpose of feeding both. It only has 7% fat, which is only moderately higher than many HT blocks.



As for feeding only dog food, I don't feel that's a complete diet. Rats have a higher need for carbohydrates [grains] in their diet than dog food allows for. While lower quality dog foods do contain alot more grains than a dog should even be getting, it's still not enough and then you're also using a lower quality food. If you feed dog food, you need to be supplementing with a grain mix, not with a block or other rat diet. Blocks and various other rat diets are "nutritionally complete," so adding another food that is nutritionally incomplete isn't going to make the difference you might be intending. If you wish to introduce animal protein into your rat's diet, and feed a block, you can supplement with fresh foods like eggs, chicken, or fish fed in moderation.
 
That's the 2014, yes.. The 2018 has 6%, and 8604 has 4%. The HT blocks derive most of their fat from oils, whereas the Rat Ration gets atleast a portion from animal sources. It's still not all that high, and in most cases is less than the majority of dog foods.
 
I will think about eventually switch to a pure rat diet but I don't see if the rats are healthy and happy what the problem is. I take mine to the vet every six months and don't have any problems.The real reason I feed dog food is there is no corn. I refuse to feed any rat food with corn in it. It was very hard for me to find a rat food without any corn and I had been in talks with a breeder (she's doesn't breed anymore) who used to feed her rats dog food.

I used to use Subee's but it didn't really work, I used to feed Mazuri but the protein content ws too high and I didn't even know how to find Regal Rat and that was a major problem. I will be moving to Guelph soon and as I have read on here one of the stores there carries Regal Rat, not to mention they maybe changing their fomulation.

I still see no problem with feeding purely dog food considering I've had great results on it. If my rats were sickly and disgusting, I would refuse to feed it. That's just me and I can clearly see that most people will not agree I am doing a good thing for my rats, but I was just putting it out what I happen to feed at home with results I found favourable.

Also I only used Martin Mill's from a sample pack; it has corn as the first ingredient so I refuse to actually buy a pack of it.

But it would help if there were actually great rat foods available without any corn that was easy to access for those of us without credit cards and online purchasing arrangements. I will try Regal Rat after all my dog food is finished but if the results are poor I will definetly continue to feed dog food.
 
A lot of knowledgeable, and very experienced Canadian rat owners on this forum have gone to great lengths in order to obtain Harlan Tech. 2014 or 2018 for their rats.
People, such as jorats (and her exotic vet.), have spent years researching the best diet for their rats and continue to do so.
If we were aware of other foods that were as good and healthy that we could feed our rats, we would be doing that instead of feeding a good quality lab block, supplimented with daily vegs and other healthy things. The data seems to be there with Harlan but doesn't seem to exist with the homemade diets.

edit: We all make our own choices, but diet is one of the few things we can control in order to maximize the health of our rarts. I'm just saying consider what these people are saying, and give their info. the weight it deserves.
 
Ratlover101 said:
Sausage4ever - Your rats may be healthy and happy but it may shortan there lifespan wheres as rat food such as Harlan will lengthan the life span.
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This is exactly why I choose the rat food. I know several have had healthy rats with the dog food and grain mix, but for me, 2 years is not good enough, I want more for my rats.
Perhaps a high quality dog food and extra care in selecting the right grain mix might very well be a good food but I'm not ready to stop what's been working for my rats to see if the dog food works.
On our current diet, my rats, mamarat's rats and Nickelrat's rats mostly all live a good long life, over 2.5 years, some reaching three and some going beyond. I'm not taking only a few rats, I'm talking dozens and dozens of rats between the three household which is why I believe it works because the numbers are there. Is that because of the food itself or the fact that we keep our rats on a low fat, low protein diet, this I can't answer. It's probably a little bit of both.
 
sausage4ever said:
I used to use Subee's but it didn't really work
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What do you mean it didn't really work? You feed it along with the dog food to make sure your rats are getting adequate grains in their diets. So, how did it not work?

No one diet can claim to extend the life of a rat. I'm sorry, that's impossible. Genetics plays entirely too big of a role to be able to make blanket statements like that. Suebee herself, and others like her, have had rats live to 3yrs or more. She had one group [Hogan's Heroes, I believe] who lived well past 3yrs. So why can't her diet be just as viable as HT? Saying that any food but HT or HT/Oxbow will only get your rat to 2yrs is not fair and is not correct. Especially since I've known hundreds of rats who were fed a good diet of 2014, 2018, or Oxbow who still died at 16-18mo. My own Mac was barely 18mo when she passed quite suddenly, and she had never eaten anything but HT. Her sister Penn is going strong at nearly 29mo, and is showing absolutely no signs of stopping. Fed the same diet, given the same care, yet one died long before the other.

Not everyone can compare data at the same time to the extent that some can. It's like comparing someone with 2 new rats to a lab setting. I will never own 20+ rats at any given time, so I can't sit back and say I've got twenty 30+monthers sitting at home who are happy and healthy. Give me several years, and I may be able to come back with some data saying that more often than not, I'm getting my rats past 30 months with a certain diet and care. Until I'm able to do that, I refuse to believe that one is better than the other.
 
I never said that dog food and grain mix won't allow your rats to live to 3yrs. I'm saying I'm not willing to change what I'm doing to experiment with that. But I do know that when I did feed the dog food and Suebee's mix back in 2002 - 2004, my rats died young, were fat and unhealthy. At the time I was following what people recommended on Goose.
Also, genetics certainly plays a role but our rats living beyond 2.5 were not all related and are all rescues, some from deplorable situations so I doubt that they all had ideal genetics.
 
jorats said:
I never said that dog food and grain mix won't allow your rats to live to 3yrs. I'm saying I'm not willing to change what I'm doing to experiment with that. But I do know that when I did feed the dog food and Suebee's mix back in 2002 - 2004, my rats died young, were fat and unhealthy. At the time I was following what people recommended on Goose.
Also, genetics certainly plays a role but our rats living beyond 2.5 were not all related and are all rescues, some from deplorable situations so I doubt that they all had ideal genetics.
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That's the way it read when you're saying that while a grain mix may be suitable for others, 2yrs isn't good enough for you. I totally don't expect anyone to change what they're doing if it's working for them, just to acknowledge that there are other options that have every potential of giving similar results when done correctly. Not just say it's not good enough for anyone, because it's not good enough for them [the poster].

I didn't say that the diet and care had nothing to do with it, just that genetics play too big of a role to say that any one thing is perfect for every rat. Just as no one thing is perfect for every human, everything has it's own needs and ways of things.
 
I wanted to leave this alone but I appreciate javakitties comments
No one diet can claim to extend the life of a rat. I'm sorry, that's impossible.
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I wasn't saying anybody should do what I do. I just find nice results with this (considering my Eli is now 32months) but I don't know if it is the dog food or just Eli. I just do what seems to work. I did not want to start a fight with anyone. :sad3: I don't recommend dog food to anyone bcause I don't know if it works, it keeps Eli healthy but may not work for the skinkids. I think it would be nice to find more choices for rat owners. I don't want anybody to think I am risking with my rats' lives. Not everyone could have trusted HT when it came out but now we see it works.

I would prefer not to be blasted for feeding my rats what I do, however a thread like this reminds me how important it will be for me to take Animal Nutrition in school. I have found something else that may help rat's but don't think it will be well recieved here. :(

*Subee's was just hard to make for me and took a long time to prepare. I remember asking my parents to drive me all over the city to find the ingredients and mixing it al up in a giant garabage bag. :D
 
Sausage4ever - I wasn't implying anything by that statement, and really did not intend to single any one person out by it. People believe in what works best for them, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. You didn't "start" anything, and I really hope you don't feel that anyone's singling you out with any of this. Everything here is just an opinion, and you're just as entitled as the next person. Please don't feel that you can't express your opinions or state what does work for you just because some people won't agree with you.

I understand about Suebee's being difficult for some people to make. I had thought you meant that it didn't work as a food somehow, and was pretty confused. I'm lucky and have several stores within a 10 mile radius that each sell just about everything I would need to make it. Feeding your animals shouldn't have to be difficult.

Jo - I'm sorry I misunderstood your statement, but that's how it came across.
 

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