Critter Nation cage for just two rats?

[Rachael]

I don't think its possible to have "too much" space for rats.l

There are some rats that you can definitely give too much space - I had a group of boys and a bigger caged caused confusion and lots of fighting. Moving them to a smaller, but still big enough, cage definitely worked for them.

 

[Francis]

I agree. Its also great that when you fall in love with rats, you have the space to get up to 10 more, since you already have the room! If you find you don't use one half at all, you can always sell it on kijiji or somethng as an add-on for a nice price.

Hahahah in theory, I guess I could do that!! But I have kept up to four or five in the past (I kept rats from when I was ten till I was seventeen), but usually just two, and I like that number best. Sure, I might change my mind in the future, though, so it's nice to have ample space! :nod:

Hmmm I'm a little worried this might happen, where the additional space would become a bit redundant... but it sounds like you found a good way to keep them interested both parts of the cage, and I like the idea of there being a food/snack area (and where I'd also keep the litter pan (yes I plan on toilet training them! haha)) and the play/leisure area up top. Why do you think the rats like the upper area more? Better lit? Better ventilated?

Keeping the food and toys on the bottom is a great idea to make full use of the cage, but I wouldn't reccommend putting the only litter pan down there. If rats have to go way out of their way to take a poo there, they won't bother and just poop anywhere (my girls will even poop where they sleep sometimes so they dont have to go the eight inches to the litter box!). Especially when you are training them, and even after that, having at least one litter box in each half would be best. Personally I think they won't really use the full cage. I had six female rats in a double CN before (the max number of females you can have in a SINGLE CN, and they hardly ever used the bottom, even with all of them. But like I said above, having the extra space would be nice if you want to get many more, or you can sell it.
Also, don't count on food and toys staying where you originally put them, haha! Rats love to stash their food wherever they want and redecorate their cage. I would spread food and toys out evenly to make things easier on you and them.

Lots of good pointers here, thanks! Yeah I like to have little treat bowls at lots of different places around the cage. Also thinking of those hanging skewers you can get for pieces of fresh food (they come with wood chews in them initially).

They like the upper area more because it is closest to you! They love to come to the front of the cage and say hi, lick your fingers, etc, and just watch you as you go about your life. I think for some rats, like my girls, also like to sleep as high as possible. Not really sure why.

I just read an article that mentioned rats instinctively prefer higher perches! So there ya go... not much of an explanation, but for me at least I'll know it's not a behaviour I could really change much by improving the layout in the bottom half! haha

Hmmm, I have already decided against getting rescue rats. Thanks for your suggestions/concern, though!

May I ask why? I am not trying to be argumentative I am actually quite curious. Why you would be against such an amazing avenue for getting animals?

Sure! Firstly, because most rescue rats originate from pet stores or litters from pet store rats, which in turn came from rat mills... where inbreeding is rampant and no regard is paid to breeding for health or temperament, where rats are removed from their mother prematurely, and where living coniditions are minimally sufficient just to sustain existence until sale — all factors that will adversely affect the health and disposition of the rats throughout their life; secondly, because I think it's worth supporting responsible, independent breeders (which, while never perfect, generally have the best interests of their rats at heart and usually DON'T do the things listed above); lastly, because I'm interested in somewhat unique coats/appearance (though this isn't a deciding factor).

I don't think the answer to rescue rats is not to buy from breeders. I think, if you care enough, have enough time and people, and you like lobbying the government to do things, the solution is getting pet stores banned from selling pets, and banning rat mills, as those are the primary causes for rats ending up in shelters. All the while encouraging the local breeders, since that should become the norm for obtaining a rat. It might feel good to adopt a shelter/rescue rat, but in my view it's just side-stepping the real problem.

They do. I was one of the first to get the new design, and I got my cage in July. I love it!

Good news!

I have 3 rats in a royal savic cage

This cage looks better than the Critter Nation!! It has proper sides to contain the bedding! Rather than having to get the aftermarket bedding trays for the CN. I'm going to have to look into whether these are distributed in Canada or even the US. Anyone know?

Not likely. They were manufactured by Savic for the European market because CNs and FNs are not available there. Even the smaller Savic (and Ferplast) cages are quite pricey here because they are imported. I know quite a few people have made pans for their cages from coroplast or had metal ones made for a reasonable amount of money. Maybe you can make a thread asking for advice on doing that.

Actually there are aftermarket pans available for the Critter Nation, which I plan on buying. Yeah, I don't think it'd be worth it to import a Savic cage from Europe just for the improved pans.

Do they still tend to spend time together or does all that space make them less sociable with each other? Do you think males generally take up more space than females or make use of the space more? (I'm getting two females.)

I have two girls in a single CN and they love it. I open it up almost every time I walk by just to play "hand-tag" with my hyper ratty. She's able to run and jump over stuff - really helps with her energy level. lol
As far as making them less sociable with each other - I don't think so. I'll find them sleeping in different areas than the other, but I think that's normal and good for them. Even when I had a smaller cage, if there was only one hut in it, I'd often find one ratty curled up in the corner of the cage by herself. Everybody needs space sometimes. They still snuggle and clean each other often.
If you're debating getting a double and you aren't concerned about the cost, I'd do it. Even if you don't use it right away.

Do they still tend to spend time together or does all that space make them less sociable with each other? Do you think males generally take up more space than females or make use of the space more? (I'm getting two females.)

They still sleep with each other all the time. I don't think it changes their socialization at all.. if anything it should help calm things mood-wise as they have room to get away if one of them is bothering the other.
Bucks (males) are generally larger in size then does (females)...so theoretically bucks do take up more space. However, females are known to be more hyper, so probably would make "more use of the space".

OK good to know! Thanks! =) Yeah it will be good for them to be able to have their time apart too, I'm sure.

I have 3 rats in a royal savic cage(pretty much identical to a double CN), and they aboslutely LOVE it!
In my opinion, rats can´t get too much space..
Mine mostly use the upper half, but I have food and veggies + play stuff in the lower half..

Hmmm I'm a little worried this might happen, where the additional space would become a bit redundant... but it sounds like you found a good way to keep them interested both parts of the cage, and I like the idea of there being a food/snack area (and where I'd also keep the litter pan (yes I plan on toilet training them! haha)) and the play/leisure area up top. Why do you think the rats like the upper area more? Better lit? Better ventilated?

You also have the advantage that if two rats don´t like each other that day, they have a big enough cage so they don´t HAVE to be in eachothers face.
I also have toys and stuff in the lower part. They still use the upper part the most, but they have done that with every cage I´ve ever had, no matter the size(from barely big enough to two males permanently, to this cage that holds up to 10 rats..(we generally calculate with more space per rat than you do I think).
I think mine like it better because there are less "dangers" on top, and they have a better view of things..
There MAY be savics over there, or you might get it shipped(I know of people getting CN´s shipped here), but it would probably be expencive..

That's OK, I think I'll just stick with the Critter Nation and the aftermarket pans. Should be fine.

I tried to sneak a peek at your babies, but the links wouldn't work.

It looks like they've changed the website since I posted those links! hahaha.. Try this page for Samba... I don't see Requiem up there yet.

Think of it this way... if you could live in a bigger house with more entertainment - would you?

haha I think I would

I don't think its possible to have "too much" space for rats.l

There are some rats that you can definitely give too much space - I had a group of boys and a bigger caged caused confusion and lots of fighting. Moving them to a smaller, but still big enough, cage definitely worked for them.

Hmmm that's interesting, I guess in the smaller cage they had to cooperate and try to get along, whereas in the larger one they each tried to carve out a piece of the territory :laugh2:


One more question: is possible to remove the second floor of the cage but still retain the upper mesh?


hahahaha this is a great emoticon! :grouphug:

 

[lizmo1221]

One more question: is possible to remove the second floor of the cage but still retain the upper mesh?

I am assuming you mean the upper mesh of the lower level? Yes, that is possible.

I will give you my view on breeding/adoption just so you can see the other side of it. Firstly, I definitely appreciate that you have looked into adoption, educated yourself, and weighed out the choices before deciding, and didn't just choose a breeder because they are "cute little babies." I don't think anyone should be breeding rats at all, whether that be in a crappy rat mill or a well respected and "good" breeder until there are no unwanted, homeless rats available (or very very few). By adopting you are not supporting the rat mill/pet store trade (sadly someone else has likely already done that), you are supporting a local animal rescue (always a good thing!), and are helping a few rats in need at the same time. What could be better than that? Adopting doesn't just feel good, but it is doing good.

Yes you won't be getting the "pure genetic lines" (in quotes because most breeders claim this but cannot deliver), but does this really matter? The only reason this would matter is because you are going to breed yourself, which would not be ok. As long as you get happy, healthy, well behaved ratties, who cares about the genes? Any good rescue out there will first quarantine or screen the rats for health and temperament for at least a few weeks, if not a month or two, before putting them up for adoption, and will guide you through the process of adoption to find the best rats for you. They will also accept the rats back if there are any issues with compatability, temperament, or health after you take them home. You have just as much as a guarantee for happy, well behaved rats as any breeder out there, if not, more.

Rats from breeders have just as much chance, if not more (since most breed indiscriminately) to have health problems later in life, like PT, mammary tumors, strokes, HED, etc, and to be given up by their owners (since most breeders don't screen buyers properly). So, assuming that most or all rats up for adoption in rescues originated from pet stores/rat mills is misguided. I would say its an even mix between breeder rats and pet store rats. And there are still LOTS of pretty colors and patterns in shelters and rescues.

It definitely should NOT be the norm to get rats from breeders. 99% of them are mini rat mills, and are doing all the things you listed (breeding back to back, removing litters early, not screening for health or temperament, inbreeding, etc) and only care about the money, and absolutely nothing about the rats themselves.

It would be amazing if rat mills were shut down forever, and pet stores were banned on selling live animals, but they aren't and won't be for the foreseeable future (as sucky as that is). We do not live in a perfect world, we live in a real world. In the meantime, you can help the problem by adopting homeless, needy ratties until that happens (crosses fingers that it will someday happen). Not adopting rats from shelters will not stop rats from being bought in pet stores, or being given up by their owners. By buying rats you may not be supporting rat mills, and may be supporting a reputable breeder, but you are still paying for more rats to be brought into this world unnecessarily when there are literally thousands out there already born needing homes.

You also have to remember: breeders (good or bad) do this for the money (as much as they say they don't). Rescues don't. Most if not all of them lose money every month by doing this, but still do anyway because it is the right and humane thing to do (and, yes, it does feel good, whats wrong with that?). Hundreds more rats a month would be put to sleep or fed to snakes if rescues didn't exist.

You have obviously figured out that this is a very pro-rescue forum. I think its safe to say that we will not judge if you choose to get rats from a breeder (if you have done your research, which you seem to have done), but we strongly encourage adopting rats already born than paying to have more brought into this world, no matter the source.

Again, just wanted to share my side of it.

 

[Francis]

One more question: is possible to remove the second floor of the cage but still retain the upper mesh?

I am assuming you mean the upper mesh of the lower level? Yes, that is possible.

Well, there's a solid floor separating the lower half from the upper half, right? Not just a layer of mesh? So basically I'm wondering if you can remove any division between the lower and upper halves, turning the cage into one very tall, undivided cage. Cause I might want to set it up this way instead sometimes.

I will give you my view on breeding/adoption just so you can see the other side of it. Firstly, I definitely appreciate that you have looked into adoption, educated yourself, and weighed out the choices before deciding, and didn't just choose a breeder because they are "cute little babies." I don't think anyone should be breeding rats at all, whether that be in a crappy rat mill or a well respected and "good" breeder until there are no unwanted, homeless rats available (or very very few). By adopting you are not supporting the rat mill/pet store trade (sadly someone else has likely already done that), you are supporting a local animal rescue (always a good thing!), and are helping a few rats in need at the same time. What could be better than that? Adopting doesn't just feel good, but it is doing good.

Yes you won't be getting the "pure genetic lines" (in quotes because most breeders claim this but cannot deliver), but does this really matter? The only reason this would matter is because you are going to breed yourself, which would not be ok. As long as you get happy, healthy, well behaved ratties, who cares about the genes? Any good rescue out there will first quarantine or screen the rats for health and temperament for at least a few weeks, if not a month or two, before putting them up for adoption, and will guide you through the process of adoption to find the best rats for you. They will also accept the rats back if there are any issues with compatability, temperament, or health after you take them home. You have just as much as a guarantee for happy, well behaved rats as any breeder out there, if not, more.

Rats from breeders have just as much chance, if not more (since most breed indiscriminately) to have health problems later in life, like PT, mammary tumors, strokes, HED, etc, and to be given up by their owners (since most breeders don't screen buyers properly). So, assuming that most or all rats up for adoption in rescues originated from pet stores/rat mills is misguided. I would say its an even mix between breeder rats and pet store rats. And there are still LOTS of pretty colors and patterns in shelters and rescues.

It definitely should NOT be the norm to get rats from breeders. 99% of them are mini rat mills, and are doing all the things you listed (breeding back to back, removing litters early, not screening for health or temperament, inbreeding, etc) and only care about the money, and absolutely nothing about the rats themselves.

It would be amazing if rat mills were shut down forever, and pet stores were banned on selling live animals, but they aren't and won't be for the foreseeable future (as sucky as that is). We do not live in a perfect world, we live in a real world. In the meantime, you can help the problem by adopting homeless, needy ratties until that happens (crosses fingers that it will someday happen). Not adopting rats from shelters will not stop rats from being bought in pet stores, or being given up by their owners. By buying rats you may not be supporting rat mills, and may be supporting a reputable breeder, but you are still paying for more rats to be brought into this world unnecessarily when there are literally thousands out there already born needing homes.

You also have to remember: breeders (good or bad) do this for the money (as much as they say they don't). Rescues don't. Most if not all of them lose money every month by doing this, but still do anyway because it is the right and humane thing to do (and, yes, it does feel good, whats wrong with that?). Hundreds more rats a month would be put to sleep or fed to snakes if rescues didn't exist.

You have obviously figured out that this is a very pro-rescue forum. I think its safe to say that we will not judge if you choose to get rats from a breeder (if you have done your research, which you seem to have done), but we strongly encourage adopting rats already born than paying to have more brought into this world, no matter the source.

Again, just wanted to share my side of it.

Yeah, I realised afterwards how pro-rescue many people here are, and that I probably alienated a good many people here by posting my view of things. Conversely, it's kind of lame that a few of you here put newcomers on the defensive right away if they don't agree with your opinion. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with adopting rescue rats, far from it, I just disagree that it's better morally to do that than to buy rats. In fact (as expressed in my previous post) I hold that it's better overall to support good breeders. Also, some people just want to have good pets, and don't even consider the moral crusade side of things whatsoever, and I don't see anything wrong with that either. Now, you say a good rescue will screen rats for a few weeks or even a couple months before adopting them out. In my mind, this doesn't compare at all to the screening that happens for many generations with a good breeder. Personally, I wouldn't knowingly increase the risk that the rats I'm getting will be a burden, because the main reason I am getting rats is that they will make wonderful companions, and without too much fussing. Not to save the world's abandoned rats. I have other things on my plate, and to be unpopularly blunt here, I think there are more important issues. I would like to go to the Congo, for instance, to establish churches and aid groups for the ravaged populace there. It's really great that people interested in rat rescue are doing it, but quit acting like that makes you better than everyone else who just wants to have a nice pet! It's your choice to lose money rescuing rats, and it doesn't give you the right to try to make others feel obliged to do the same!

So, in summary, as much as you think I am wrong to be paying for rats, I think you are wrong to be telling other people they should not.

Thanks, though, for going to the trouble of writing out your views. I can see you're very passionate about it, and I get where you're coming from. As for judging me for not getting rescue rats... again, in my opinion being a rat rescuer yourself doesn't give you the right to judge others who do not want to adopt rescued rats.

Shall we all shake hands and agree to disgree then? I think we all can find common ground in our love for rats, and just keep discussing everything to do with caring for them! These forums are a great place for ALL rat owners, rescued or otherwise.

To end on an optimistic note, please check out this article about the first city in Canada to consider banning the sale of puppies in pet shops. I heard it on the radio just a few weeks ago. A first step towards what we were talking about!
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columb ... y-ban.html

 

[Fidget]

Oh please! Surely there cannot be too much space now?
My pet peeve - literally PET peeve - is that Cage Calculator that doesn't take into consideration if the cage is a prison? or just a sleep space when they're done running around their available space? Life should be measured in day-to-day comfort & joy, not square inches. Now you ask what's too much? OMG, I hope someone doesn't measure that out.
Not ridiculing your question at all Francis, just a little afraid of it..

 

[LittleCritters]

This forum caters to rescues and those that don't see rat welfare as a lesser cause in this world. It's great that everyone has an opinion, but it is always important to be sensitive to the fact people are very emotionally attached to certain issues... on all sides! That said... let's end this conversation before it begins! The internet is a bad place for debates and speeches and it is impossible to change a decided mind.

This forum is a great resource for rat information, it's helped me out and will no doubt help you. Congrats on your babies! I'd go for the bigger cage if you have the money. I always regret I didn't just splurge and get a large, good quality cage.

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

Did I miss you mentioning what breeder you are going to? I'm just curious because I have yet to hear of a good ethical breeder anywhere in Canada.

 

[Rachael]

I don't see the problem with the OP getting breeder rats, no I don't agree with breeding but I got my first pair from a breeder and now I only take on rescues, it doesn't make the OP a worse rat owner than anybody else here if that's their choice.

 

[MMak]

Did I miss you mentioning what breeder you are going to? I'm just curious because I have yet to hear of a good ethical breeder anywhere in Canada.

http://www.evergreenrattery.com/

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

Did I miss you mentioning what breeder you are going to? I'm just curious because I have yet to hear of a good ethical breeder anywhere in Canada.

http://www.evergreenrattery.com/

Like I said I have yet to hear of an ethical breeder in Canada. Evergreen Rattery has been discussed before....

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16827&hilit=evergreen+rattery

I don't see the problem with the OP getting breeder rats, no I don't agree with breeding but I got my first pair from a breeder and now I only take on rescues, it doesn't make the OP a worse rat owner than anybody else here if that's their choice.

I don't see a problem with getting breeder rats either as long as the breeder is a good ethical breeder.

 

[MMak]

http://www.evergreenrattery.com/[/url]

Like I said I have yet to hear of an ethical breeder in Canada. Evergreen Rattery has been discussed before....

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16827&hilit=evergreen+rattery[/quote:4mxkhc7f]

I just read the entire post. I personally know Robin. She took care of my rats for a month not too long ago and I've sporatically kept in contact with her since. I've seen her facility numerous times as well as her adult rats and litters. They are all very healthy and clean.
I understand the frustration about how she bred a supposively high white in the beginning... but I don't believe there was much research of that during that time period.
Even so... she atleast admitted to her mistake and hasn't done it since.
She grew up with 2 veterinarians PLUS worked in their office. She's not just some idiot who saw a cute pair of rats online and jumped into the decision of breeding them.

I, also, would personally rescue/adopt a rat. My two current boys are from the SPCA.
However I don't think Robin's a horrible person for choosing to breed. Especially since she isn't some rat mill, and she isn't living off that as a career. She has a F/T job out in the real world too!

I don't want to steal this topic, so if you'd like to discuss your views you are welcome to PM me.

 

[lizmo1221]

Yeah, I realised afterwards how pro-rescue many people here are, and that I probably alienated a good many people here by posting my view of things. Conversely, it's kind of lame that a few of you here put newcomers on the defensive right away if they don't agree with your opinion. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with adopting rescue rats, far from it, I just disagree that it's better morally to do that than to buy rats. In fact (as expressed in my previous post) I hold that it's better overall to support good breeders. Also, some people just want to have good pets, and don't even consider the moral crusade side of things whatsoever, and I don't see anything wrong with that either. Now, you say a good rescue will screen rats for a few weeks or even a couple months before adopting them out. In my mind, this doesn't compare at all to the screening that happens for many generations with a good breeder. Personally, I wouldn't knowingly increase the risk that the rats I'm getting will be a burden, because the main reason I am getting rats is that they will make wonderful companions, and without too much fussing. Not to save the world's abandoned rats. I have other things on my plate, and to be unpopularly blunt here, I think there are more important issues. I would like to go to the Congo, for instance, to establish churches and aid groups for the ravaged populace there. It's really great that people interested in rat rescue are doing it, but quit acting like that makes you better than everyone else who just wants to have a nice pet! It's your choice to lose money rescuing rats, and it doesn't give you the right to try to make others feel obliged to do the same!

So, in summary, as much as you think I am wrong to be paying for rats, I think you are wrong to be telling other people they should not.

Thanks, though, for going to the trouble of writing out your views. I can see you're very passionate about it, and I get where you're coming from. As for judging me for not getting rescue rats... again, in my opinion being a rat rescuer yourself doesn't give you the right to judge others who do not want to adopt rescued rats.

Shall we all shake hands and agree to disgree then? I think we all can find common ground in our love for rats, and just keep discussing everything to do with caring for them! These forums are a great place for ALL rat owners, rescued or otherwise.

To end on an optimistic note, please check out this article about the first city in Canada to consider banning the sale of puppies in pet shops. I heard it on the radio just a few weeks ago. A first step towards what we were talking about!
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columb ... y-ban.html

I do not want to get into this any more, because as civil as it is right now it can definately turn ugly quickly. I just want to be clear that all I was doing was stating my opinion so you can see the other side of it. I did not tell you you what to do, claimed rescuers and adopters of rescues were better than other people or judge you for making your decision (in fact, I stated that I was NOT judging you). Yes, I am very passionate, but I am not here to put people on the defensive or alienate them. If that is what happened or how you saw it I sincerely apologize, that was not my intention. I was purely stating my opinion calmly, that is all.

This forum is for all rat owners, no matter where they go their rats from. That being said, we of course all have our own opinions and the vast majority of us have very pro-rescue ones. That is something that you will see again and again and deal with if you choose to stick around (and this is a very good forum for getting rat information, advice, finding more rats to adopt, etc).

I can definitely agree to disagree

 

[Rachael]

You are new to rats too lizmo and it is all about learning, like I said I started with 'breeder' rats and there's nothing wrong with that, after owning rats and learning more about them I realised breeders weren't as good as I probably thought to start with. The OP sounds like a caring rat owner to be to me anyway so I wish them lots of luck.

 

[Joanne]

Yah, I would hope we can all agree to disagree. Just because I choose to adopt rescue rats doesn't mean everyone else has to! I have to admit we bought both our Portuguese Water dogs from a breeder (although my excuse is that my husband is allergic to dogs LOL!)
I was glad to see that a community in Canada is considering banning the sale of puppies. I did like one of the comments posted that encouraged the placement of SPCA animals in pet stores instead. That would be great! I would love to see that happen for all types of animals!

 

[MMak]

Yah, I would hope we can all agree to disagree. Just because I choose to adopt rescue rats doesn't mean everyone else has to! I have to admit we bought both our Portuguese Water dogs from a breeder (although my excuse is that my husband is allergic to dogs LOL!)
I was glad to see that a community in Canada is considering banning the sale of puppies. I did like one of the comments posted that encouraged the placement of SPCA animals in pet stores instead. That would be great! I would love to see that happen for all types of animals!

Vancouver DID ban the sales.

and I think thats a great idea for the stores to adopt out animals from the SPCA (and possibly other rescues).
the only thing is no one would be making money... which Im sure not many pet stores are going to appreciate.

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

http://www.evergreenrattery.com/[/url]

Like I said I have yet to hear of an ethical breeder in Canada. Evergreen Rattery has been discussed before....

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16827&hilit=evergreen+rattery

I just read the entire post. I personally know Robin. She took care of my rats for a month not too long ago and I've sporatically kept in contact with her since. I've seen her facility numerous times as well as her adult rats and litters. They are all very healthy and clean.
I understand the frustration about how she bred a supposively high white in the beginning... but I don't believe there was much research of that during that time period.
Even so... she atleast admitted to her mistake and hasn't done it since.
She grew up with 2 veterinarians PLUS worked in their office. She's not just some idiot who saw a cute pair of rats online and jumped into the decision of breeding them.

I, also, would personally rescue/adopt a rat. My two current boys are from the SPCA.
However I don't think Robin's a horrible person for choosing to breed. Especially since she isn't some rat mill, and she isn't living off that as a career. She has a F/T job out in the real world too!

I don't want to steal this topic, so if you'd like to discuss your views you are welcome to PM me.[/quote:17y782ya]


I was merely trying to provide more insight for the OP so they can make an educated decision.

 

[MomRat]

and I think thats a great idea for the stores to adopt out animals from the SPCA (and possibly other rescues).
the only thing is no one would be making money... which Im sure not many pet stores are going to appreciate.

Pet stores don't make money off of selling animals. They sell you a $10 Rat, or a $6 hamster or a $25 guinea pig or whatever, and then they make money off the STUFF you buy for the animal. You don't need a cage, water bottle, wheel, bedding, food, toys, etc with no pet, but your little kid sees it there, and its ONLY ten dollars, and they HAVE to have it, and then you pay for the rest. Having rescue animals at the pet store, with responsible care and no breeding, would bring them in just as much revenue from the sale of STUFF.

Sorry, I know this thread is amazingly off topic, but I needed to comment.

Also, I would like to commend the community for how politely this entire conversation has proceeded. :thumbup:

 

[zenia wulfe]

I just read the entire post. I personally know Robin...

I read that thread earlier too. I also know Robin. Not very well and I haven't been to her house... But I find her to be a great woman and though sometimes I think she is breeding a little much, that is her choice, not mine. I have two girls from her right now and they are fantastic pets! She also even carted a boy I wanted from the Idaho rescue a few weeks ago back up here to Nanaimo for me!