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CrocHunter said:
Well, in my opinion I woulld not feed it & I'm not just takling about eatingit, I am also talking about the bedding (which is horrible)
carefresh
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Well, in my opinion I woulld not feed it & I'm not just takling about eatingit, I am also talking about the bedding (which is horrible)
Moon
Well-Known Member
CrocHunter said:
No, they are made from corn meal, not dried corn. But that's not the point.
Fresh, cooked, or corn as an ingredient in blocks is fine. Dried corn, as in the individual dried kernels or the decorative stuff you put out in the fall, is not. It is the harbourer of molds. Theoretically the corn cob bedding could also have those molds, and I believe there's a concern about the rats possibly choking on the bedding when they try to chew it.
jiffystiffy
Active Member
Newspaper is my bedding of choice. It's not dusty, easy to clean, and I don't have to go out of my way to buy it since it's delivered to my doorstep.
jorats
Loving rats since 2002.
Like moon pointed out corn meal, fresh corn, canned corn, frozen corn are good for rats.
But the kernels, not so much because it has been tested and found to contain mold spores. I wouldn't want my rats eating the corn cob bedding anymore than having them eat that Schweats bedding or however it's called. It's wheat and highly palatable to rats.But it's still a bedding and not subject to the same standards as food.
But the kernels, not so much because it has been tested and found to contain mold spores. I wouldn't want my rats eating the corn cob bedding anymore than having them eat that Schweats bedding or however it's called. It's wheat and highly palatable to rats.But it's still a bedding and not subject to the same standards as food.
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
As everyone is saying dried corn kernels are potentially dangerous, but ground corn (in lab blocks), and fresh corn are just fine.
As for corn cob bedding, I truly don't advise it. Oddly enough corncob bedding is TOO absorbent and will draw moisture from a rat's tail and cause a condition called ringtail, where the tail can end up falling off
As for corn cob bedding, I truly don't advise it. Oddly enough corncob bedding is TOO absorbent and will draw moisture from a rat's tail and cause a condition called ringtail, where the tail can end up falling off
CrocHunter
Well-Known Member
Well. I've been reading since then (and thank you all for the warnings)... Someone should notify your friends on Crafty Rat that it is bad for them, as they sell dried corn as a treat for rats on there (on the cob). I also mentioned this before, and no one seemed surprised or even addressed it.
I've seen both sides to this. Because there was a site with Q&A in which a PHD said that even corn meal would contain the same fungus, and avoid lab blocks with corn in them.
There is a lot of ambiguity on this subject, and for me personally, I don't just take a site that says "Corn contains fungus which is linked to liver cancer" without them citing the study and the percentage of corn that does or does not contain this so called fungus.
I fed my rats before plenty of dried corn, and they died of old age (nearly 3 years old). Mostly respiratory problems. I don't take at face value that because the corn is ground up into powder that it makes it fungus free. I'm sorry, I always find myself playing devil's advocate. I am probably the biggest skeptic there is on stuff, just because I need to see proof. I should have been born in the "Show Me" state.
I am also finding sites that say only to feed lab blocks "once in a while" due to corn being an ingredient, and that it still harbors the same fungus and mold. It says to always feed fresh food.
So, do any of you see where I am coming from?
I've seen both sides to this. Because there was a site with Q&A in which a PHD said that even corn meal would contain the same fungus, and avoid lab blocks with corn in them.
There is a lot of ambiguity on this subject, and for me personally, I don't just take a site that says "Corn contains fungus which is linked to liver cancer" without them citing the study and the percentage of corn that does or does not contain this so called fungus.
I fed my rats before plenty of dried corn, and they died of old age (nearly 3 years old). Mostly respiratory problems. I don't take at face value that because the corn is ground up into powder that it makes it fungus free. I'm sorry, I always find myself playing devil's advocate. I am probably the biggest skeptic there is on stuff, just because I need to see proof. I should have been born in the "Show Me" state.
I am also finding sites that say only to feed lab blocks "once in a while" due to corn being an ingredient, and that it still harbors the same fungus and mold. It says to always feed fresh food.
So, do any of you see where I am coming from?
CrocHunter
Well-Known Member
IngredientsâWheat middlings, ground wheat, ground corn, corn gluten meal,
calcium carbonate, soybean oil, dicalcium phosphate, iodized salt, L-lysine, DLmethionine,
choline chloride, niacin, vitamin A acetate, biotin, pyridoxine
hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid,
menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), vitamin E
supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, calcium pantothenate, ferrous
sulfate, magnesium oxide, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, calcium
iodate, cobalt carbonate, chromium potassium sulfate.
Standard Product
Crude Protein 14.5%
Crude Oil (Fat) 4.0%
Crude Fiber 4.5%
This is common on all brands except Oxbow which has NO corn in it, only wheat. I looked at the ingredients of all brands. There are some scientists insisting not to buy brands with corn "ground corn" because it is no different than the dried corn, whether someone thinks it being ground somehow makes its chemical make up different or not. Oxbow is not available locally to everyone, and can be costly to get it shipped. Is it the position of everyone that we should only be feeding Oxbow and nothing else?
This is from your own website Jo -
"Corn and alfalfa is not bad for rats. They do have nutritional value. They do however contain cellulose which reduces somewhat but not entirely itâs digestibility. They provide energy, protein and fiber.
It has been said that corn may contain fungi but all grains cultivated in fields, kept in silos may contain fungi, nitrates and nitrites⦠Cheerios anyone? â¦not to mention all the vegetables!
Hereâs an excellent article on alfalfa"
So not only is corn dangerous, but now ALL grains are dangerous. So why the prejudice toward corn?
calcium carbonate, soybean oil, dicalcium phosphate, iodized salt, L-lysine, DLmethionine,
choline chloride, niacin, vitamin A acetate, biotin, pyridoxine
hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid,
menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), vitamin E
supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, calcium pantothenate, ferrous
sulfate, magnesium oxide, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, calcium
iodate, cobalt carbonate, chromium potassium sulfate.
Standard Product
Crude Protein 14.5%
Crude Oil (Fat) 4.0%
Crude Fiber 4.5%
This is common on all brands except Oxbow which has NO corn in it, only wheat. I looked at the ingredients of all brands. There are some scientists insisting not to buy brands with corn "ground corn" because it is no different than the dried corn, whether someone thinks it being ground somehow makes its chemical make up different or not. Oxbow is not available locally to everyone, and can be costly to get it shipped. Is it the position of everyone that we should only be feeding Oxbow and nothing else?
This is from your own website Jo -
"Corn and alfalfa is not bad for rats. They do have nutritional value. They do however contain cellulose which reduces somewhat but not entirely itâs digestibility. They provide energy, protein and fiber.
It has been said that corn may contain fungi but all grains cultivated in fields, kept in silos may contain fungi, nitrates and nitrites⦠Cheerios anyone? â¦not to mention all the vegetables!
Hereâs an excellent article on alfalfa"
So not only is corn dangerous, but now ALL grains are dangerous. So why the prejudice toward corn?
victoria
Well-Known Member
What everyone is trying to say is that corn is not the problem, dried corn kernels are because they can contain toxic mold that is invisible to the naked eye. It's quite possible much of the dried corn you gave to your rats did not, but we can't know if it's safe or not which is why it's not recommended. Lab blocks made with corn are cooked, which would kill the mold if there was any.
I'm not sure if corn cob bedding carries the same risks, from my experience using it with cats though, it's intuitive to me that it would be less than ideal bedding for rats. It would almost be like putting your rats in a sand box, except corn cob bedding is not as dense as sand. It seems to me that a rat would not be comfortable living in it. The absorbency potency pointed out by Shelagh is another hazard (that I hadn't even thought of) and I have yet to come across a corn cob bedding that is labeled as unscented (many that are not labeled as scented are) which can also pose serious risks to rat health.
I'm not sure if corn cob bedding carries the same risks, from my experience using it with cats though, it's intuitive to me that it would be less than ideal bedding for rats. It would almost be like putting your rats in a sand box, except corn cob bedding is not as dense as sand. It seems to me that a rat would not be comfortable living in it. The absorbency potency pointed out by Shelagh is another hazard (that I hadn't even thought of) and I have yet to come across a corn cob bedding that is labeled as unscented (many that are not labeled as scented are) which can also pose serious risks to rat health.
CrocHunter
Well-Known Member
I can't find any information on lab blocks being cooked. The so called PHDs didn't seem to think they were cooked.
Can you cite? I'm not on any quest to be right or anything, just on a quest for truth. Would love to see how the process of lab blocks goes. But it says on Jo's site that ALL grains have the same risk of mold. So you wouldn't be able to feed wheat, or anything else like that either.
Can you cite? I'm not on any quest to be right or anything, just on a quest for truth. Would love to see how the process of lab blocks goes. But it says on Jo's site that ALL grains have the same risk of mold. So you wouldn't be able to feed wheat, or anything else like that either.
CrocHunter
Well-Known Member
Update - same goes for sunflower seeds.
Guest
As I said before, just last week I had two rescues (they are in a forever home now) were kept on corn cobb bedding, it was so flaky it was all in the fur and stuck on the skin and it smelt like mold (once pee'd on) and they had bumble foot.
CrocHunter
Well-Known Member
If i ever gave the impression that i was talking about corn-cob bedding, i apologize. I didn't realize i had mentioned it in any of my posts.
Guest
CrocHunter said:
I was not directing that comment at you, it was towards Victoria as she said she is unsure if corn cobb bedding has the same risks.
smilez_n_hugs
Senior Member
CrocHunter said:
If you are no longer discussing bedding then this isn't the thread to continue this discussion as this is supposed to be about carefresh bedding. It's probably worth starting your own topic about it to get all your issues addressed :thumbup:
CrocHunter
Well-Known Member
I wasn't the only one talking about it my friend lol :thumbup:
But i do get your point. Its easy for threads to get out of hand.
But i do get your point. Its easy for threads to get out of hand.
Guest
missnikki said:
What other materials do you use? & what kind of cage do you have?
I'm at work right now so I can't tell you the name of the cage because I don't have the name memorized - it is pretty big tho, very tall with three different levels, one is plastic, and the others i cover with paper towel or old cloth pieces.
