adoption contract .... broken

[Moon]

That's what I am saying though... depending on who feels they have been "harassed", the meaning can be loose.

 

[trillium]

I'm sorry to hear you're dealing with such a problem. I got curious, and went to look up the defn' of harassment as the courts see it.

Thought the page, or even just the site http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/fv-vf/pub/har/har.html

for the Dept. of Justice in Canada might be a useful reference. I know you have to look specifically at your province as well though. Good luck with working this out.

 

[SQ]

Thanks for the link trillium.

 

[Vanessa]

Harassment, like slander and liable, is legally subjective to the circumstances surrounding it and is very difficult to prove. In recent years some forms of harassment, especially those involving domestic issues, has become a lot stricter but many forms are still dependant on the entire set of circumstances.
If Holly loaned me money and we had a contract for repayment that I breached, and she was phoning me 20 times a day at work and at home to get her money from me, that is not going to be looked upon as the same type of harassment. Yes, it might not end up to be in her favour if she causes me to lose my job, but I won't get anywhere claiming that she was harassing me. The same way that collection agencies can still call you dozens of times a day, although now they are not allowed to call your work, in order to collect on a contract. Many times the courts will consider that the person was asking for it by not upholding their end of the bargain and dismiss claims of harassment.
It is still very, very subjective and it depends on the circumstances surrounding it.
People love to throw it out there, as another scare tactic, simply because they don't want to be accountable for their breach of an agreement. To those people, any form of contact from you holding them responsible is going to be harassment.

 

[smallvic]

hmmm... could it very possibly be the case that this thread can be read by a member of the public, or this family has joined the board, and sees everyone foaming at the mouth to brand them evil and throw a book at them, and nit-picking defensive manouveurs.

It seems like everyone hates them, and who would want to adopt from anyone if this is what it comes down to.

The whole point of the exercise of finding animals good homes is not so that we can force everyone to do exactly what we want them to do at all times, but to get them to adopt animals that otherwise do not have good homes, and see this as important, and conduct themselves rightly from the point of view of the animal.

The only basis here and now for anything further is whether Dandy is going to have a friend. No? Then can you please have her back so she can rejoin her previous cagemates.

 

[jorats]

Oh you have a point smallvic, I'm moving this to rat chat and pics.

 

[henry's_mum]

hmmm... could it very possibly be the case that this thread can be read by a member of the public, or this family has joined the board, and sees everyone foaming at the mouth to brand them evil and throw a book at them, and nit-picking defensive manouveurs.

It seems like everyone hates them, and who would want to adopt from anyone if this is what it comes down to.

The whole point of the exercise of finding animals good homes is not so that we can force everyone to do exactly what we want them to do at all times, but to get them to adopt animals that otherwise do not have good homes, and see this as important, and conduct themselves rightly from the point of view of the animal.

The only basis here and now for anything further is whether Dandy is going to have a friend. No? Then can you please have her back so she can rejoin her previous cagemates.

I agree with this 100%, when trying to find your rats or animal a good home, you're trusting that the person/people that you're adopting to, will make the decisions that best suit the animal/rat. You cannot think that they will do EVERYTHING as though you would.
In this situation it seems as though they had these girls for a long while, and all of a sudden one passed, and some rats do go quickly, and you're unable to get them to the vets, but they must have been taking care of them to have had them this long. It's unfortunate that the last girl is left alone, if this were me, i'd ask if they'd like help finding her a suitable friend, or return her to the rescue to live her days with her previous friends.
Either way if I were these people i'd be done with 'adopting', this situation would've scared me out of the idea...
:?

 

[SQ]

hmmm... could it very possibly be the case that this thread can be read by a member of the public, or this family has joined the board, and sees everyone foaming at the mouth to brand them evil and throw a book at them, and nit-picking defensive manouveurs.

It seems like everyone hates them, and who would want to adopt from anyone if this is what it comes down to.

The whole point of the exercise of finding animals good homes is not so that we can force everyone to do exactly what we want them to do at all times, but to get them to adopt animals that otherwise do not have good homes, and see this as important, and conduct themselves rightly from the point of view of the animal.

The only basis here and now for anything further is whether Dandy is going to have a friend. No? Then can you please have her back so she can rejoin her previous cagemates.

I agree with this 100%, when trying to find your rats or animal a good home, you're trusting that the person/people that you're adopting to, will make the decisions that best suit the animal/rat. You cannot think that they will do EVERYTHING as though you would.
In this situation it seems as though they had these girls for a long while, and all of a sudden one passed, and some rats do go quickly, and you're unable to get them to the vets, but they must have been taking care of them to have had them this long. It's unfortunate that the last girl is left alone, if this were me, i'd ask if they'd like help finding her a suitable friend, or return her to the rescue to live her days with her previous friends.
Either way if I were these people i'd be done with 'adopting', this situation would've scared me out of the idea...
:?

Agreed ....
I was asking that the verbal agreement made at the time of adoption (one followup visit, and occassional emails as to how the rat(s) were doing) and the signed contract (ie vet care and at least one rattie friend) be followed or that Dandy be returned as specified in the contract. I was/am concerned because the only info. I had/have is that Snowball "was fine until two days before she died" and that no vet care was provided. When I spoke to the husband during the initial phone conversation and said she needed vet care, he did not seem interested and mentioned that rats have short livespans. I asked the wife to agree to vet care and a friend for Dandy. Since the adoption, I found the man to be untrustworthy and his attitude has been the same as that seen in the email I posted.

henry's_mum, offering to help them find another rattie friend would have been seen as an intrusian on my part. He found me on kijiji and there are lots of rats presently advertised on there. I did offer to email info on intros, and I also offered to help if it was something they would like.

I think that in the future, this man will make sure he agrees with a contract before he signs one. As for adoption, I don't think that is ever what he wanted, I think he wanted to buy two animals. I imagine that any future animals he gets will come from people on kijiji that want to dump their pets.

I will let you know how this is resolved.

 

[chicky82]

I just read this thread, I'm sorry SQ I hope you can get this worked out, you expect people to live up to their obligations and it's so frustrating when they don't and if they had everything would've ended up better good luck

 

[SQ]

The man sent me an email to tell me when and where I am to meet him as he will be returning Dandy. I am to meet him tomorrow at 10 am ... it is about an hour or more drive from where I live ... say a prayer for me ...

 

[ryelle]

I hope it all goes well and he isn't horrible to you SQ

 

[jennifervb]

The man sent me an email to tell me when and where I am to meet him as he will be returning Dandy. I am to meet him tomorrow at 10 am ... it is about an hour or more drive from where I live ... say a prayer for me ...

Stand your ground if he decides to puff his feathers. He is in breach of contract and needs to get a real life.... suggest that he review the definition of moral integrity and wish him a "nice life". :bunnydance: :laugh4: (sorry.... I know I'm being an @$$ about this but this dude irks me. :giggle: )

 

[jaylovesrats]

I would just take dandy, Smile and tell him to have a good day when ur nice to people that are rude it makes them angry lol

 

[sausage4ever]

Hope all goes well...

 

[donnamaz]

Hope all goes well hun!! I'll keep ya in my prayers too. Make sure you keep us updated.

 

[Ilovemyrats]

I have been trying to contact an adopter for awhile.
I adopted two baby girls to them over a year ago.
Contacted them a two days ago and indicated that I wanted to visit them and the ratties.
The husband said both ratties were doing fine, however his wife who had answered the phone said one girl was unwell.
Upon further questioning, he admitted the girl was having respir problems.
Told him to take her to a vet immediately, and suggested antibiotics she should be given.
He had to go and said for me to email about a time for me to visit.
Today I sent an email, as requested by the husband, to ask about a time when I can visit. Also asked what the vet had said and how the little girl was.

He emailed back saying little snowball had died ... :sad3:

They had my email and phone number and knew they could call, they had the address of this site and others, and they were given a Rat Health Care book by me when they adopted the two girls. How close do I need to keep in contact with people? To much and they feel harassed, not enough and rats die :sad3:
So much for rat rescue .... :sad3:

So I am going to reclaim the other girl (even if they are planning on getting her a friend), as they did not abide by the contract, and I don't think I can trust them to provide her with vet care when she needs it.

So .... any suggestions?

Edit: This was my first reaction, not what I did. After reading your responses, I calmed down.
What I did was request more info.
I requested that the items agreed to at the time of adoption ... verbal agreement to a follow up visit, and occassional updates by email; and contract specifying medical care, and at least one rattie friend be followed. My desire was to reach a mutually agreeable resolution.

Awww poor thing and poor you .. :sad3: I also wanted to ask for your help for something someonetold me your great at cage renavations and i need help making more fun grea thing for my rats including more levels and when i heard that you were geat at it i had to ask soo could you help me in any chance? :wink2:

 

[lj]

Good luck SQ.

 

[mercurydust]

What concerns me is that these people may never rescue again. Honestly, I don't think they did anything wrong. I have had rats die all of a sudden and they gave no signs of illness to even give me a chance to take them to a vet. This girl is be taken from a home she has known most of her life...it cannot be an easy thing for her.

 

[Dewi]

Goodluck SQ. What a crappy experience :cuddle: .

It's probably not a bad thing that these people don't get small animals from rescues. If they still go the pet route it would be bettter if they select "easier" pets like dogs, which are generally healthier and harder to ignore. The husband wasn't taking animal care seriously enough IMO, I wouldn't be surprised that this is a case of adopting animals for the kids and then largely forgetting about them, possibly why the resp infection symptoms weren't noticed until too late. I've never had rats with resp infections without symptoms. The surviving rat will be happier with other rats rather than being alone for the rest of her life.

SQ, when you get the time, perhaps it's worth looking up how to write a legally binding contract. Maybe one of our budding law student can look the contract over to see if it is legally binding. Alternatively, maybe contact another animal rescue (like that dog one involved in the Ellen/dog scandal) and see how they have written their contract. Don't you have to initial all pages and have a witness, or am I just getting confused with preparing a will? Even if a contract results in monetary compensation, the majority of people would rather give up their small cheap pet rather than pay out anything.

 

[Arkeld]

If they still go the pet route it would be bettter if they select "easier" pets like dogs

Erm, no, just no.

Getting a dog is like having a baby. You need to spend a hell of a lot of time training your dog, not to mention daily walks/exercise. The amount of time and attention needed by a dog is MUCH greater than that of a rat. Our ratties, we make sure they have water, food, clean cage and play with them an hour a day, which is all they need. More play time is better of course, but you can get away with that if your schedule is tight.

For instance, I work 8 to 6 with no time to head home during my lunchbreak. The rats are fine being alone during that time. Not so with a dog, especially large breeds. You leave your dog alone all day, it´ll be a disaster.

IF these people didn´t care correctly for their rats (which is something we don´t know, they might be), then a dog would fare much worse. The lowest maintenance pet is a cat, provided she can go outside.