adoption contract .... broken

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SQ

SQ

Senior Member - Vegan for the animals
Joined
Jul 21, 2007
Messages
17,208
Location
central New Brunswick Canada
I have been trying to contact an adopter for awhile.
I adopted two baby girls to them over a year ago.
Contacted them a two days ago and indicated that I wanted to visit them and the ratties.
The husband said both ratties were doing fine, however his wife who had answered the phone said one girl was unwell.
Upon further questioning, he admitted the girl was having respir problems.
Told him to take her to a vet immediately, and suggested antibiotics she should be given.
He had to go and said for me to email about a time for me to visit.
Today I sent an email, as requested by the husband, to ask about a time when I can visit. Also asked what the vet had said and how the little girl was.

He emailed back saying little snowball had died ... :sad3:

They had my email and phone number and knew they could call, they had the address of this site and others, and they were given a Rat Health Care book by me when they adopted the two girls. How close do I need to keep in contact with people? To much and they feel harassed, not enough and rats die :sad3:
So much for rat rescue .... :sad3:

So I am going to reclaim the other girl (even if they are planning on getting her a friend), as they did not abide by the contract, and I don't think I can trust them to provide her with vet care when she needs it.

So .... any suggestions?

Edit: This was my first reaction, not what I did. After reading your responses, I calmed down.
What I did was request more info.
I requested that the items agreed to at the time of adoption ... verbal agreement to a follow up visit, and occassional updates by email; and contract specifying medical care, and at least one rattie friend be followed. My desire was to reach a mutually agreeable resolution.
 
You can try. They may not be willing. ON the other hand, they may be very willing to be done with the worry. Now you'd be worried that the other one is left alone.
 
I'm so sorry to think of little Snowball's death. She was a sweet PEW girl whom I had fostered for two months along with her many brothers and sisters. They were rescued from a snake owner who, unfortunately, did not want to give me the mama or the last couple of girls.

I remember the day that I left Snowball & Dandelion (the prospective adopter's kids had named them in advance) at SQ's in preparation for their trip to their new home. :(

Of the fifteen baby rats that SQ fostered, the boys were very fortunate. Four were adopted to a couple who moved to Toronto, and they are thriving. Two boys were adopted out to a great home (Riana), and when she had to find them another home they ended up with me and are now living with their buddy Bill. Two of the girls had stayed with me, but they were unhappy as a twosome. So they ended up with their sisters at SQ's, living the good life. Sweet Deborah died of CHF, but the other sisters are doing OK.

RIP Snowball. I hope that her sister will be OK, that she will be returned to her other sisters.
 
Sorry about little snowball!!!! In my opinion a contract is a contract and if they broke that contract, then the deal is off.... I really hope that they are willing to cooperate with you "before" they neglact the other girls health.... I would keep on it and get her back ASAP. Was your contract verbal or written?
 
I use a very long written contract that specifies the care expected.
Just so everyone is clear.

Just got an email back, they will all be at work tomorrow ...
He says that she was only ill one day before I phoned on Sunday ...
I don't find that creadable that she was only ill for two days before becoming so ill she died.
 
Well.... You have the legal right to pull the other girl out.... Any legal binding contract can only be broke if it is you who breaks it..... I hope you can get her out... I don't buy the one day sick story either.... and it sounds like they are stalling on a visit also.... Good luck!
 
This is a hard call. It is quite possible that she was sick only days before you called and perhaps didn't even notice the symptoms until it was too late. Hubby and wife might not be on the same page but that's normal in families.
You could try and get the little girl back or you could try to educate them and help them recognize better the signs of illness. It would cost you money to enforce them to give back the little girl unless they do so willingly.
When I first got rats, my Koko died due to pulmonary abscesses. But I didn't know any better, by the time I realized that she was very sick, it was too late. We all learn from somewhere and I'm sure these people are learning from this.
It's a tough situation. :(
 
yes ... I trusted the wife but I feel that the husband is evasive ...
he didn't answer the many emails I have sent over a period of time asking when I could visit, until I spoke to his wife ... and he still will not set a time ...

I don't think he is willing to be educated, but I will try to see if she is willing.

The last thing I need is to have another rat in this apartment ... but I have a really bad feeling about this situation.

Thank you for the ideas and things to consider, Jorats.
It is hard for me to think clearly right now ...
 
No matter how carefully you screen adopters it's still a hit a miss. I have some people who I've never heard from again and others who call me regularly.

It's going to take serious diplomacy and sweet talking to get the other rat back. Contract or no contract, if you're not careful you're going to come out of this as the bad guy. Remember that the law sees animals as property,their property, so no one is going to have your back on this one. Even if your contract was 10 pages long I'd bet you would still have no legal standing. Be careful!
 
Contracts can have reversion or condition subsequent clauses. They do it all the time in property transactions, where a person who fails to fulfill a certain obligations will be required to give up that property. If they can do it for real estate, I don't see why they can't do it for personal types of property. But I'm no lawyer...

Is there anyway to contact the wife directly if you feel it's the husband who is being evasive? Or is the husband in control of the wife's activity?
 
I am going to try to contact the wife today ... but it depends on who answers the phone.
Then I will drive there and hopefully she will arrive home from work first ... anyone want to go with me?

The contract did say that if the ratties were not cared for as outlined in the contract, the ratties would be reclaimed, and that the adopter would cooperate with my reclaiming the ratties.
But if they don't cooperate, I will have to hire a lawyer. I believe that smallvic has gone through that in order to reclaim ratties.

I also need to verify that Snowball was really dead when they buried her (re. recent post on this issue) ... didn't think of that until now, since he emailed me a very brief message and didn't speak with me.
 
Can you contact the wife at work? If he is really controlling, she may want to have the option to speak to you privately without him hovering in the background. It just sounds like a bad situation in general for everybody involved.
 
jorats said:
This is a hard call. It is quite possible that she was sick only days before you called and perhaps didn't even notice the symptoms until it was too late. Hubby and wife might not be on the same page but that's normal in families.
You could try and get the little girl back or you could try to educate them and help them recognize better the signs of illness. It would cost you money to enforce them to give back the little girl unless they do so willingly.
When I first got rats, my Koko died due to pulmonary abscesses. But I didn't know any better, by the time I realized that she was very sick, it was too late. We all learn from somewhere and I'm sure these people are learning from this.
It's a tough situation. :(
Click to expand...

Not being on the same page does not justify being a liar. It sounds to me as if he wanted Snowball to die because he was not crazy about having rats in the first place. What a jerk! I hope he develops an upper respiratory infection and can't breathe so that he knows what it's like to die that way. :redhot:

Get your girl out of there SQ. She is not where she belongs with people like that.

Hubby can be happy I'm not there for him to contend with. He'd still be peeling himself up off of the floor. The man is a :sick2: bag.

(in case anyone hasn't noticed.... I am a REAL !#%^$*!!!$@*! when it comes to small animal protection!)
 
I'm giving hubby the benefit of the doubt. If SQ would call my hubby, he would tell her all our rats are happy and healthy when that is not the case. Scott has no idea who's sick and who needs what. I don't even bother telling him anymore if one gets pts. He works long hours and really has nothing to do with the rats... I'm hoping this might be the case with this family.
 
I agree with Jo. This guy just might not be that involved with the pets. Not all husbands are. Also I wouldn't jump in to fast to remove the rat they still have. Maybe the other little rat did die quickly. I had it happen to one of my first rats.I would write a sympathetic email and hopefully they will contact you and you can work this out. I know how terrible you must feel.....
 
I really hope you can get the wife on the phone, but there is always the chance that her symptoms didn't appear to be anything serious until it was too late.

I'm sorry Holly.
 
Actually, it was the husband that adopted the ratties .... and agreed to their care.
I drove to his wife's place of work after she got off work today. (I had phoned and spoken to the secretary early this afternoon.)
I asked her if I could speak privately with her. I also asked if then would be convienent or would another time be better.
She agreed to speak with me and we went to a room where we could speak privately.

I told her that the 3 options are 1) for the two of us to come to a mutually agreeable solution 2) for them to return the girl 3) for me to take legal action to enforce the contract. Told her that I hoped we would be able to work something out, that it would be ridiculous for it to go any further.

She will keep an eye on the remaining girl, make sure medical care is provided if she is ill, and they will be getting at least one more girl to keep their surviving rattie company.
I will be corresponding with her in the future.

Hoping for the best ....
because they both indicated that the rattie girl was ill two days before she died and vet care was not provided.
However, she did not seem to be very ill to them, which I assume is why she was not taken to the vet.
 

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