Worried about Chester - RIP my love...

[Unepuce]

Weirdly enough, I haven't cared for an old rat in a while (since Pollux, actually) so I guess I forgot what is normal and what's not in the aging process, but... Chester is worrying me. He is now a little over 28 months old, which I believe is pretty old for a Newfoundland rat (I only base this assumption on ages at which Ratty Momma was losing her ratties), he has HED but not to the point he has to drag his legs entirely, and is obese ( ) although he lost quite some weight these last few weeks.

I started getting concerned a little over 1 month ago, when he would look more and more tired, and feel a bit limp. Up until 2 Saturdays ago, where I found him flat out limp and overly tired - I had to leave for the day and was soooo scared he wouldn't make it through the day! I forcefed him before leaving, hoping it would help... and it apparently did. Since that day, he is on soft food, a sample from his sneezing was send for culture and he's been on Chlor Plam, then Trim Sulfa for para-something and e-coli (??? - probably from eating poop, which I saw him do). His lungs sound fine, but he's got some kind of a "bubble" noise from his nose when he's breathing, but nothing seems to help with that, even those two meds that were prescribed following the culture, so I am wondering if allergies could be a cause, since he started at the beginning of pollen season. I was also wondering whether he was incontinent, but I now believe he does have some control over his bladder (his poops are fine).

Now... I have been suspecting something neuro for awhile, but only kept watching him as he is getting old. Here's what is ticking me off:

• He cannot grab with his hands so is unable to eat blocks; [/*:m:1rctb3nr]

• He seems to be losing strength in his jaw or ability to cut with his teeth (he has a hard time taking a bite in a Oxbow block I am holding for him, but his best friend is now a lava block that he destroys with lots of confidence or so it looks like...); [/*:m:1rctb3nr]

• He is uncoordinated (could be from trying to balance from HED, but it looks worst than it should); [/*:m:1rctb3nr]

• He clubs his hands often, but it looks different from the clubbing from PT I have seen in my girls - less stiff I would say; [/*:m:1rctb3nr]

• He looks like he has to "think" before he starts eating his meds or mushed food; and [/*:m:1rctb3nr]

• Yesterday for the first time I got head bumps out of him, but I am not sure whether they were voluntary or not...[/*:m:1rctb3nr]

Chester is a gem to me, I went through hell to have him get to me from Newfoundland (which was made possible with the help of some wonderful people from here (and BF too) who went out of their ways to help us :heart: ). I truly, TRULY hate to see him like this. I have a vet appointment on Monday with my second vet - I want her to take a look at his molars since his incisives seem OK to me - but I am now considering asking for a bromo prescription as well, eventhough I don't feel I have a very strong case just yet.

Need your opinion - should I try him on bromo before it gets worst, or is it just old age? My emotions are probably blinding me, so I thought I would ask more knowledgeable and less emotionally-involved people for their input...

 

[lilspaz68]

All the symptoms are pointing in the direction of PT...but if you want a more definitive answer to these questions, are you able to take a video of him moving about or attempting to eat? I AM sorry. :sad3:

 

[Unepuce]

Yeah... I had a feeling. He would be my first male with PT, and the 3rd rat in a row (excepting Charlie) that I would lose to that darn tumour!!! I was telling Victoria that I if I lost Émilie to PT (she is gaining weight at the same rate that Cabotine and Victoria did) I would stop adopting girls as I seem to be doing someting wrong with them... but now my boys get hit too?? Are you aware of foods or nutrients that could trigger PT??? I am honestly wondering whether it is diet related.

Yeah, you can easily tell from their chubbiness they don't only have veggies and fruit as a complement to blocks...

 

[Godmother]

It does sou d like PT. if it is, the odds of extra quality time are much improved, thanks to Bromo and Cabergoline.

All fingers and paws crossed for him. :cuddle:

And I can't imagine that you are doing anything g that would cause PT. it is pretty common in rats. Most of us have had out share if it.

 

[lindsayfawn]

aww poor guy He was a great travelling buddy when we brought him from NB to Quebec. He's one travelled rat! Sending good vibes to him.

 

[Unepuce]

I was able to get a last minute appointment at the vet, with the vet I was seeing on Monday. I wasn't all too sure I had a good case, but apparently, it was solid - and she saw other things (weaker on the left side, etc) that I hadn't noticed, so I stopped by the pharmacy with a prescription on the way home and Chester will be getting his first quarter of a dose of bromo tonight.

This is the first time ever I feel relief at that diagnosis - I guess deep down I already knew, and the relief ame from getting the prescription so soon. I honestly breathe better now that the Bromo is here... now let's hope it helps my poor Chester...

 

[krobinson]

good luck! all fingers and paws crossed here! i just started bromo with bea last night for PT.

 

[Unepuce]

good luck! all fingers and paws crossed here! i just started bromo with bea last night for PT.

So we will be able to monitor progress against one another. That could be interesting!

 

[Rachael]

PT is horrible :sad3:

 

[Unepuce]

PT is horrible :sad3:

It really is...

 

[krobinson]

good luck! all fingers and paws crossed here! i just started bromo with bea last night for PT.

So we will be able to monitor progress against one another. That could be interesting!

yup! hopefully they both get better at the same time.
today i actually saw bea climb the bars of the CN without falling! im so proud of her!

 

[Unepuce]

It's been a long while since I posted, so since I have a minute, I though I would update.

Chester has started Bromo on May 25. I have introduced the drug slowly, so he's been on full dose for about a week now. I can tell the Bromo is working as his eyes are more opened and he devours his mushed food at night, but it's not taking him where I feel he should be. Granted he is an older rat and HED is catching up on him, but he still is too limp, too weak, for me to be satisfied with the result. He doesn't have much of an appetite during the day and most of his food intake he accepts eating at night (and very enthusiastically so!), he still has a hard time grooming, he is still headbumping, and I now have to syringe feed him his medications (surprisingly, he takes the Bromo very very nicely!). He is still on Bromo, Trim Sulfa, Glucosamine-Chondroitin, and Metacam.

I have an appointment for him tomorrow. Since there was respiratory noise 2 weeks ago, we wanted to avoid Prednisone, and I don't expect that issue to have resolved itself as he spits the Trim Sulfa with a lot of energy, so we will be discussing switching him to Cabergoline. That would be my first experience, and I admit I am curious (and anxious) to see if it will make a lot of difference.

The good part is that this whole ordeal has brought us closer together (surprise!) - I am even more attached to him now, and I truly didn't think this was possible, and he makes me feel like I am the world to him.

I believe those here with Cabergoline experience have gotten better results than with Bromo, so it is permitted to hope for an improvement? I certainly hope so as I would love to get him at least to 2.5 years old.. After all he is my precious... my Chesty. :heart:

 

[Cinderwolf]

Oh no not Chester :sad3:

I hope the meds start to help more

 

[dspch911]

:heart: :sad3: Sorry about your baby, hope he responds better to the meds :sad3: :heart:

 

[Joanne]

I'm sorry to hear Chester has a PT. I am currently using Cabergoline for my boy Hotch. He has been on it for a month now, and has not bounced back to normal, but has also not really worsened. He cannot eat anything that he needs to chew, he can only lick food up. I take him out and make up a bowl of baby cereal for him twice a day to make sure he has something in his belly and that has seemed to make a lot of difference - he seems a much healthier sick rat. LOL I soak the Harlan blocks in water so they are soft so he has the option to eat the rest of the time, although I'm not sure he does. He is also pretty much confined to the bottom of the CN. Hotch did fall out of the cage one day, but I have a mat out, and he didn't get hurt. How is Chester's mobility?

 

[Unepuce]

I'm sorry about Hotch... :hugs: Those darn PTs sure are getting the best of us, aren't they?

Hotch sounds a lot like Chester. Chester's mobility is so so, but he also has HED and is at the stage where he drags his legs a quarter of the time. He still has edge behavior, but is not able to stop in time, so I have to watch him like a hawk the rare times he goes for a leisure walk during out time. He can chew, but not "cut" his blocks - if I offer bite size blocks, he is able to eat them. I feed him mushed blocks with a little bit of oil 2 to 3 times a day, but he really eats only at night. He will have a few casual licks in the morning - food has to be on my finger though or he won't eat anything - but by then he had just had his share of blueberrry baby food with the rest of the gang. When I come back from work, he will have a few more licks (on the finger, mind you!), but not that much more, then it's supper time and he gets his own plate with a few bite size pieces of whatever we are having for supper + extra veggies and he will eat what he likes. Then right before bedtime, it's pig out time: no time for the finger, he dives head first in the bowl and eats, eats, eats...

Victoria also told me that Cabergoline was not that much more effective than Bromo, but I am still willing to give it a one month try. I will see what my vet says first, since right now I have Dr Saulnier's opinion (but my vet usually agrees with her). A part of me wishes I could use Dex or Pred so he would have a real chance at bouncing back, but another part of me is curious to see how far the Bromo/Cabergoline alone can go. I know the Bromo has brought back my Chester's mind to normal, but has a hard time helping him control that body of his.

And I know exactly what to mean by healthier sick rat... it also litterally applies to Chester. :wink2:

 

[lindsayfawn]

Hope the meds work for him!!!! Sending him good healing vibes :hugs:

 

[victoria]

I hope you can find some way of making him more comfortable.

I took Daisy in today because she hasn't been eating normally (she can only eat soft food but has no issues grasping) and it turned out she had a malocclusion again. (She had one a few weeks when I took her for the vet to see her PT symptoms before I started Bromo, I think she hurt herself getting beat up by a jerk in the cage and it didn't quite correct itself with one trim.) It's good to check them over, in case there's something that's contributing to his condition that may have been missed.

 

[crumbilina]

Chester has started Bromo on May 25. I have introduced the drug slowly, so he's been on full dose for about a week now. I can tell the Bromo is working as his eyes are more opened and he devours his mushed food at night, but it's not taking him where I feel he should be. Granted he is an older rat and HED is catching up on him, but he still is too limp, too weak, for me to be satisfied with the result. He doesn't have much of an appetite during the day and most of his food intake he accepts eating at night (and very enthusiastically so!), he still has a hard time grooming, he is still headbumping, and I now have to syringe feed him his medications (surprisingly, he takes the Bromo very very nicely!). He is still on Bromo, Trim Sulfa, Glucosamine-Chondroitin, and Metacam.

Is there a reason why he is on the metacam? Can he come off of it so you can use dex?

I have had great results using bromo and dex together. My PT girl Mia was not responding to the bromo well back in December. I boosted her with a couple oral doses of dex and she bounced right back! She was fine for about 3-4 months and then started to regress. I started giving her intermittent doses of dex whenever she appeared to need it and it worked just fine to keep her stable. Currently, she needs about 1 dose of dex every 5-7days, and is still doing extremely well! Its been 5.5 months on the bromo, but I don't think she would have made it this long without the dex as well.

 

[Unepuce]

5.5 months...! Is it me or are we getting better and better results with the Bromo? Very encouraging!

Chester will not switch to Cabergoline after all. My vet didn't see the point since he did improve a bit on the Bromo, but now his lungs sound clear, so he will be off the Trim Sulfa, which might help with his appetite, or so we are hoping. He lost an incredible amount of weight these last two weeks, so I am actually relieved now that he was so fat to start with! :giggle:

Chester is on Metacam because of his HED. We are not putting him on steroid to avoid another infection flaring up, but if he doesn't start eating better after we cut the Trim Sulfa, I will probably call it quits and ask for them. I have never used Dex besides as an initial shot for "shock therapy", I have always been switching to Pred - but I feel reluctant now because of experience: it brings them back almost to normal, but stops working very suddenly... end of the story. :?

Getting curious... which of the Dex or Pred would be easier on the immune system (expected to get an unanimous "none of the above!"). And how do you choose Dex over Pred, or vice versa?

@Victoria - The teeth check came out clean. I do see him once in a while trying to dive into the food bowl and breaking blocks, but if I try to feed him then, he refuses. He does eat a few pieces of block I break up for him though. He so wants to be normal again, my poor little boy... but he sure enjoys the extra petting time he gets throughout the day. He actually looks insanely content at times! :cheeky: