What is your opinion of these ingredients?

[dan2333]

It's called Martin Mouse & Rat Ration. I'm not sure how good it is. I have it and my rat likes it but we're running out and I just read somewhere on here that the animal protein might contain nitrosamines or something so I'm not sure.

Ingredients:
Ground corn, ground wheat, soybeans, poultry meal, beet pulp, herring meal, brewers dried yeast, poultry fat, molasses, ground oats, Mono-calcium Di-calcium phosphate, limestone, ammonium lignosulfonate, salt, L-lysine, DL-methionine, Mannan OligoSaccharide, yucca shidigera extract, Vitamin C phosphate, rice hulls, choline chloride, iron sulfate, zinc oxide, manganese sulfate, Vitamin E, Niacin, copper sulfate, folic acid, Calcium d-pantothenate, Vitamin B12, Vitamin A, Biotin, sodium selenite, menadione sodium bisulphite complex, riboflavin, Vitamin D3, pyridoxine, thiamine mononitrate, calcium iodate, cobalt sulfate.

 

[xxchelle]

I think, if I'm not mistaken, that food is too high in protein. Not to mention I tend to stay away from anything that is for multiple animals. I'd rather buy food that is specifically for the animal I'm trying to feed.

 

[Zooy]

My rats lost major weight on that. They were down to their lowest weight when I had them on it.

 

[xxchelle]

I should add that there are some exceptions, such as Living World Extrusion. But I don't think this is one of those exceptions.

 

[dan2333]

I just looked it up here: http://www.martinmills.com/smallPetsMouseAndRat.asp

It contains 20% protein which might be too much. I just ran out and bought Mazuri 6F which is 16% protein.

I'll switch and I hope he likes it.

 

[dan2333]

I think, if I'm not mistaken, that food is too high in protein. Not to mention I tend to stay away from anything that is for multiple animals. I'd rather buy food that is specifically for the animal I'm trying to feed.

I tried feeding him Oxbow Regal Rat which, from a nutrition standpoint, is probably the best. Except for the fact that my rat absolutely hates it! How convenient.

The only way I can feed him the Oxbow is if I crush it up and mix it with pablum.

 

[xxchelle]

A lot of my rats don't like Oxbow either. We feed Harlan Teklad 2014 at the rescue.

 

[dan2333]

I would feed them the Harlan Teklad but I have no way of getting out to Guelph.

 

[Fidget]

I'd be wary of anything that had ground corn first in ingredients.
http://www.rmca.org/Resources/rmcafaq.htm The Rat Health Care booklet by Debbie Ducommun reports that corn should be fed with caution due to high levels if nitrates and amines which can combine in the stomach to form nitrosamines which are carcinogenic. In theory, this is true, but you would have to feed your rat a diet almost entirely of corn for this to be a problem. You don’t want your rat to exist soley on any one type of food, but there really isn’t a problem with corn, other than too much in the diet will make your rat fat. A well balanced diet containing corn in moderation is perfectly fine.

Also look at 'corn mold' on the 'net. Every year I periodically get some corn on the cob that has some nasty looks, including nasty green or black around the kernels in a section, I throw that part out, but you know it goes into machines for making pet food. Maybe it does for human cereal too, but the standards are higher. Corn is so subject to contamination I don't really trust foods that hide it's appearance, especially not ones that it is the main ingredient in. JMO

 

[victoria]

I love Martin's for my bunnies, but their Mouse and Rat Ration is too high in protein for mice and rats. Flowertown Chinchillas sells HT and you can get it delivered or pick it up in Brampton. If you can't get HT try Extrusion and supplement it with veggies to reduce the protein and fat ratios.

 

[Cigar]

When I worked at a pet supply store I talked to my manager, who is a member of Rabbit Rescue, and she said she would talk to Haviva (owner of RR) about the protein content. It was actually thanks Haviva her that Martins changed the rabbit formula and her bunny [a rescue who unfortunately passed away] is featured on the new bag of timothy pellets. We MAY see a change some time in the future.. continue to e-mail Martins and express how you feel. I told them that I wanted very badly to recommend their food but didn't feel comfortable with the high protein content.

I'd much sooner grab some Martins in a pinch than a Sunseed/Sunscription block that has something like 25% protein.

 

[victoria]

They have said they are considering changing their food or offering an "adult" formula, but nothing yet.

 

[jorats]

Corn as the main ingredient is not exactly bad, it's a grain which is what our rats need as their energy source.
Real corn kernels are the ones to be weary of, not corn as an ingredient. If it's part of a block, it goes through such a high heating process, no mold would survive.
Also... if we are going to be worried about mold and nitrites from silos, then don't give your rats any cereals either like cheerios and all the other grains that people feed from the bulk barn. Those are ALL subject to silo molds and nitrites.

 

[lilangel]

I'd be wary of anything that had ground corn first in ingredients.
http://www.rmca.org/Resources/rmcafaq.htm The Rat Health Care booklet by Debbie Ducommun reports that corn should be fed with caution due to high levels if nitrates and amines which can combine in the stomach to form nitrosamines which are carcinogenic. In theory, this is true, but you would have to feed your rat a diet almost entirely of corn for this to be a problem. You don’t want your rat to exist soley on any one type of food, but there really isn’t a problem with corn, other than too much in the diet will make your rat fat. A well balanced diet containing corn in moderation is perfectly fine.

Also look at 'corn mold' on the 'net. Every year I periodically get some corn on the cob that has some nasty looks, including nasty green or black around the kernels in a section, I throw that part out, but you know it goes into machines for making pet food. Maybe it does for human cereal too, but the standards are higher. Corn is so subject to contamination I don't really trust foods that hide it's appearance, especially not ones that it is the main ingredient in. JMO

Also if we were to be wary of ground corn then stay away from HT as it has ground corn in it too. i think all rodent diets have ground corn
http://www.harlan.com/research_models_a ... otein_2014

 

[Cigar]

Misconceptions about corn will never cease to exist. My journey with dog and cat food led me a whole new world where I learned that it can be an inexpensive source of protein but many companies will abuse it, featuring it up to 3 times in their list of ingredients under different names: ground whole corn, dehulled corn, corn gluten meal for example might be on the very same bag of food.

 

[Fidget]

Corn as the main ingredient is not exactly bad, it's a grain which is what our rats need as their energy source.
Real corn kernels are the ones to be weary of, not corn as an ingredient. If it's part of a block, it goes through such a high heating process, no mold would survive.
Also... if we are going to be worried about mold and nitrites from silos, then don't give your rats any cereals either like cheerios and all the other grains that people feed from the bulk barn. Those are ALL subject to silo molds and nitrites.

I'm not worried about silos that cater to people and animal food equally, just the quality of what goes into pet food. Do they really have a high-heating process for the corn in the blocks? If so that's a good thing I hadn't thought about. I'd still be more comfortable with the corn qualility (heck, all the ingredient's quality) that is going into human food than pet food. Pet's food is the stuff that isn't good enough for humans :cry: .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendering_(food_processing)
"An alternative process cooks slaughterhouse offal to produce a thick lumpy stew which is then sold to the pet-food industry to be used principally as tinned cat and dog foods".
and check out 'bone meal' under Rendering processes for inedible products (yucch!)

But thanks for the reassurance that they can & do destroy the bad stuff in the corn before they grind it up and make it invisible, Jo. I just have a hard time trusting big business not to cut corners, so I'd rather keep my kids 'mystery' corn to a minimum and give corn to them as fresh corn I can see, or in people food. But that gives me comfort, I could sure be dead wrong about what's best for them (she says - worrying about perfect health for the kids, then blows out a gust of smoke from the cigarette she's inhaling into her own lungs - far away from the kids of course) Lol!

 

[jorats]

I'm talking about the high heating process it goes through to become a block.

Funny how we are more concern about our rat's healthy food. lol I'll eat a big Mac for breakfast, lunch and dinner but no way would I do that for my rats. lol

 

[Cigar]

So true, Jo! I'll eat all the processed, carbonated, sugary crap I want but my pets always eat healthy, appropriate diets.

 

[lilangel]

I know what you mean.

I drink so much coffee/pop that oh my lol but my rats nope they probably eat better then i do >.< Well friends and hubbys family says my rats eat better then i do.