Very sick rat, not sure what more to do?

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Kim Kenney

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Hi everyone, I am new to owning rats (my kids rats) we have 2 females about 1.5 yrs old or so. Over the past month one started to develop a mammary tumor. I made appointment to take her in to have it removed. Suddenly she was doing a severe head tilt and in about 24hrs totally unable to walk and get herself to food and water. I called and brought her in to exotic vet as an emergency. She was dehydrated and vet said possibly an inner ear infection or PT. Sent me home with an oral antibiotic, pain med, and med to shrink tumor. Said prognosis is not good.

That was last Friday. We’ve had moments (very few) where she was up trying to eat and moving. She has steadily declined in last 48 hrs. She can’t walk at all. She tries very hard but just rolls over and over. She now has no interest in being fed or given water (before she would lay and eat via syringe willingly) and this morning it seems like she’s taking the food and just holding in her mouth without swallowing. She is spitting out the water and turns away. I am getting the meds down. I spoke to vet yesterday and I have appointment for Friday . Just wondering if I need to put her to sleep? She looks so frustrated and miserable. She can’t pick her head up (it is extremely tilted and touching ground) move much, eat, etc. she has the red liquid coming from one eye and the other is looking a little bulged. I had hoped if it was an infection the meds would be helping her improve some by now.
Hoping for advice from experienced rat owners. Thank you.
 
A steroid such as Dex, or prednisone (dex is better) will help with both an inner ear infection and pt if the tumor is slow growing, by reducing inflammation. It must be given with an antibiotic and is the treatment for neurological issues. http://ratguide.com/meds/endocrine_hormones/prednisone_prednisolone.php http://ratguide.com/meds/endocrine_hormones/dexamethasone.php

Given her age it could be either an inner ear infection or pt - for ear infections they are given a steroid and an antibiotic that will penetrate well or a combo of antibiotics, and different antibiotics may need to be tried http://ratguide.com/health/auricle_ear/otitis_media_otitis_interna_labyrinthitis.php

For pt a steroid and an antibiotic such as baytril are given.
In addition, cabergoline (or bromocriptine - cabergoline works better) is given for pt as it works with the most common type of pt. http://ratguide.com/health/neoplasia/pituitary_tumor.php http://ratguide.com/meds/central_nervous_system_drugs/cabergoline.php

You did not say which meds she is taking, the doses or her weight .......

Basically, you may want to quickly try the meds I have mentioned if she is not already on them
It is essential that she be well hydrated, dehydration is a horrible way to die ..... if she can not fluid or enough fluid orally, then it needs to be given sub-Q, vets can teach you how to do this and sell you the equipment including the fluid and 27 gauge butterfly needles.

If she is unable to take anything by mouth then imo she needs to be humanely put to sleep immediately - today, not suffering until Friday ....... even if you can keep her hydrated, there would be no way to get her to take medicine and therefore no chance of improving. -

UNLESS Lilspaz68 may be able to suggest something you can do .............................. maybe a dex injection would be worth trying today if she is not already on dex

The way to humanely put to sleep a rat is: the rat is given the gas/oxygen mix used for surgery, when the rat is unconscious to at least a surgical plane (eye/blink reflex is tested and toes are gently pinched), then the rat is injected. The rat continues to be given the gas oxygen mix and kept unconscious until dead.

Most vets do not knowhow to humane put a rat to sleep so you need to make sure it is done correctly, and to be present if at all possible - some vets will allow you to hold and comfort your rat during the process. A conscious rat is never injected!!!

Some people choose to allow rats with pt to die at home as long as they are do not appear to be suffering

I am so very sorry that this is happening to you and to your little girl
 
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What meds is she on, the strength (mg/ml), the dose of each and her weight?

Ask Lilspaz68 if a dex injection asap would help ...... if she is not already on dex
 
SQ said:
What meds is she on, the strength (mg/ml), the dose of each and her weight?

Ask Lilspaz68 if a dex injection asap would help ...... if she is not already on dex
Click to expand...

Thank you for the replies!! She weighs .82lbs or 372 grams.
She is on Enrfloxacin 100mg/ml and I’m to give 0.04 ml twice daily for 28 days
Meloxicam 1.5mg/ml give .13 ml 1-2 times day
Cabergoline give .44 ml every 3rd day.

They did not prescribe me a steroid...although I do have injectable dex for my horses. However I would have no idea of her dose.
She actually finally ate and drank a little this afternoon. Seems she has late day rallies where she shows some desire to eat and drink. She is very tired and is actually sleeping in my lap after a few sips of water.
 
Glad that she is doing a bit better

Double check if there is a wait time between giving metacam and giving dex. Metacam is an NSAID and if you read the links provided by Jorats and myself, you will see that it can not be given with dex or with pred (and there is a wait time between stopping pred or dex and starting the other

enrofloxacin (baytril) dose is ok http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/enrofloxacin_baytril.php

the dose for cabergoline is 0.6 mg/kg [0.27 mg/lb], PO, q 72 hr , but since I have no idea what the strength is of the med you are giving .......... you will need to do the calculations .... she would get approx half of a 5 mg pill (0.22 mg) http://ratguide.com/meds/central_nervous_system_drugs/cabergoline.php

dex would be much better then metacam for either pt or an ear infection imo
baytril is good for pt but there might be a better, more effective antibiotic for an inner ear infection
 
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Stop the metacam and let me know the concentration of the dex? 2 mg/ml or 5 mg/ml? I can help you work.out a dose as you can use it to give orally. Can you take a video of her so we can see where she is at this stage and whether it looks more like PT or severe inner ear infection. The dex can sometimes provide miracles and often gives relief. It's also fast acting so you'll know quickly whether it will work
 
lilspaz68 said:
Stop the metacam and let me know the concentration of the dex? 2 mg/ml or 5 mg/ml? I can help you work.out a dose as you can use it to give orally. Can you take a video of her so we can see where she is at this stage and whether it looks more like PT or severe inner ear infection. The dex can sometimes provide miracles and often gives relief. It's also fast acting so you'll know quickly whether it will work
Click to expand...

Hi and thank you for your help! My dex is 2mg/ml. How long should she be off the Metacam before she can have some dex? I gave her a dose last night but will not this morning. She was refusing to eat and drink again before bed but I just looked in on her and she is upright and trying to eat on her own so I let her be for now.
I will video and see if I can post it.
 
Give her 24 hrs off the metacam, should be 48 hrs but this is a little more urgent. Her dose would be 0.19 ml or 0.2 ml if that's all you can figure out. Mix it in some tasty liquid and get it in her. You should see real improvenent within 24 hrs
 
lilspaz68 said:
Give her 24 hrs off the metacam, should be 48 hrs but this is a little more urgent. Her dose would be 0.19 ml or 0.2 ml if that's all you can figure out. Mix it in some tasty liquid and get it in her. You should see real improvenent within 24 hrs
Click to expand...
 
Ok I will dose her dex this evening then as I gave last dose of metacam last evening around 7:30.

Also, I noticed my paperwork and the actual medication for the antibiotic is different. The bottle is of Azithromycin which I know to be Zithromax. So apparently it’s not the Baytril as the paper says. Is the 0.04 ml dose still proper?
 
Kim Kenney said:
Ok I will dose her dex this evening then as I gave last dose of metacam last evening around 7:30.

Also, I noticed my paperwork and the actual medication for the antibiotic is different. The bottle is of Azithromycin which I know to be Zithromax. So apparently it’s not the Baytril as the paper says. Is the 0.04 ml dose still proper?
Click to expand...


I’ve taken short videos but am having trouble getting them to post.
 
What is the strength of the Azithromycin?
The dose is 5mg to 15mg orally, twice a day
IMO, she should get 8.2 mg twice a day ...... the number of mls that is will depend on the strength of the zithro you have
If the Azithromycin is 100mg/ml then she would get 0.082 ml twice a day.
 
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SQ said:
What is the strength of the Azithromycin?
The dose is 5mg to 15mg orally, twice a day
IMO, she should get 8.2 mg twice a day ...... the number of mls that is will depend on the strength of the zithro you have
If the Azithromycin is 100mg/ml then she would get 0.082 ml twice a day.
Click to expand...

The Azithromycin is 200mg/5ml. I have been giving the 0.04. These amounts seem so minuscule to me...but I know she’s tiny.
I had a crazy day and was unable to attend to her as I had been. I syringed her water and tried food. She refused. But before I left the house she was upright in their cage and eating the oatmeal and tomato I gave her. Now she’s asleep. I will give her AB and see how appetite is shortly. I have an appointment for her tomorrow afternoon with vet and hoping for improvement.
 
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lilspaz68 said:
Actually it's 0.19 ml once a day for zithro.
Click to expand...

Depends on the dose.
I am going by the dose my vet prescribes of 10 mg/Ib twice a day, of azithromycin to arrive at the amount I recommended
Lilspaz68 (whom I greatly respect for many things including her medical knowledge concerning rats) is dosing at 4 mg/Ib twice a day which is the low end given in the ratguide.com http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/azithromycin.php

Also, Azithromycin is not very effective unless given with baytril so I hope that you get baytril from the vet

I hope the dex helps
 
lilspaz68 said:
Low end is 10, I use 20 mg/kg SID for zithro dosing. Sometimes it works ok alone with an older rat especially for the first time.
Click to expand...

So should I give .19 or .2 of Zithromax? I just gave the .04 before reading this. Sounds like she needs more...Going in tomorrow and will ask about the baytril. We only seem to have one exotic vet in town so this is my only option. She easily took the AB but has no interest again in food or water. She feels quite strong as she tries to walk but she’s starting to look thin. Any ideas on foods to entice her? I’ve been doing sweet oatmeal, avocado, avocado and mayo (saw that suggestion on a website) all sorts of baby foods, cream cheese, and offering fruits and veggies. Sometimes she’s excited to eat but not over past two days.
 

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