Very difficult Birth....Narnia seems to be eating her babies

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whirlytwirly

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
53
Location
Newcastle NSW Australia
Some half-wit sold a friend of someone I work with two "male" rats....and you guessed it, one was a boy and the girl Narnia got pregnant. They were going to take them both back to the pet shop (the parents didn't want them keeping rats any more (deros!) so I took them in instead *sigh*.

Narnia was huge, she wieghed 440g on Friday.

Yesterday I had the MOST stressful day worrying about my poor girl . Narnia starting spotting at 7.30am (right before I had to goto work). She seemed distrssed and didn't deliver her first pup until about 4 in the afternoon. I rang the vets in my area but no-one wanted to touch a pregnant rat.....no-one knew anymore than I do which wasn't helpful.

I didn't get home from work until 6.30pm. She's still really fat! She had 7 babies. 3 were dead in the nest....two were quite obviously deformed/mangled looking. Of the four that were left, 3 looked okay but one looked all bruised and squashed up.....

Overnight she seems to have eaten two, so now there is only two left.

If there anything I should be doing for her? I know I've probably got to let nature take its course but I hate seeing the little things suffer and Narnia being all stressed.

Tracy
 
So, this happened yesterday? Do you think there are any babies left inside? Try massaging her belly to see if you can feel anymore inside of her. If they don't come out there is a chance her body may re-absorb the fetuses but I'm not so sure you are going to have a good outcome.

Give her a drop of metacam if you have some, if not a drop of infant advil or motrin. You could try warm compresses also. I would put her on antibiotics just as a precaution. There could be internal damage and you don't want infection to set in. Tell the idiot vet (who apparently couldn't be bothered looking up your problem) to give you some Baytril.

If you have any surviving babies put Mom and the wee ones in a very small cage. Right now the only way they are going to get milk is if Mom can't get away from them. And you may have to be prepared to try and hand feed them. That's a whole other problem.

Poor baby, it must be awful for her!

Kudos to you for trying to help!
 
Using Baytril is not recommended for pregnant or nursing does. If she was outright sick, then you would need to weigh the pros against the cons, but please do not put her on a course of Baytril as a preventative. There are other antibiotics readily available that are safe for nursing does. Some of those antibiotics are : Azithromycin, Erythromycin, and Amoxicillin.

Metacam should also not be given to pregnant or nursing does. If she is not in obvious pain, please try and find a rat experienced vet before trying any sort of pain reliever. Many vets will, at least, talk to you over the phone about the situation, although they are technically prohibited from giving diagnosis or anything without having seen the animal first.

Rats are prey animals, so if the babies had died overnight, she would have taken care of the bodies to prevent predators. Given the stressful circumstances [the pregnancy, her age, new home, then the birth] it's not a stretch to assume she's freaked out a bit and reacting on instincts alone. With one of the pups being 'squashed' and bruised, it sounds like the labor was pretty difficult. Some bruising happens sometimes, but it shouldn't be all that bad. Gently feel her stomach/abdomen and see if you can feel anything in there. If there are any babies left, she will need to see a vet immediately to have them removed, and to most likely have a spay. If you can find a vet with experience, they'll perform an Emergency Spay to do both at the same time.

Other than trying to find a vet that can help you, keep things very quiet and calm around her cage. If you can keep her in a dim room, that would help, too. Check the remaining pups for milk bands, it's a white line on their stomach. If you see that, they should be okay since it means she's nursing them. Hand feeding is only mildly successful if they've already nursed from the mother, and the longer they nurse from her the better. The initial milk is loaded with colostrum, which is what they need to survive. If she hasn't nursed them, there's no way for you to replicate that.

ETA : Unless her cage is really inappropriate for whatever reason, moving her now is only going to stress her out that much more. Leaving her where she is so that she can feel some level of safety would be infinitely better.
 
Thanks for the advice guys :)

She seems in much better spirits today. I had a good feel of her abdomen last night and I'm positive that all the babies are out. One more died this afternoon and I removed the body before she did anything to it. She doesn't seem overly worried about me being around her, though she's in a nice quiet place with soft nesting materials.

The dead pups are sort of really squished and it feels like their back legs are all soft. I've had still-born and deceased pups before and they didn't look like these ones do.

The remaining one baby is a dark pink-red colour which leads me to think it has bruising too. I don't hold much hope for it. Narnia is very attentive to it and is constantly feeding it. It has a nice little milk belly at least.

In the vet's defence she did try to look up stuff but I think she is newly out of uni and didn't feel confident treating a rat. My usual vet who is at the same practice is currently away at the moment and he is usually great.

The only antibiotics I currently have are Baytril and Doxycycline. If I think she's getting unwell I'll take her to the vet for some azithromycin which he's prescribed for my rats before.

Wish me luck guys. I really hope this little baby will be ok. I get so upset when the poor little things die. At least she didn't go into labour in a skanky petshop tank I suppose...
 
Some bruising should be fine. If Narnia's really trying with it, it has a shot atleast. I do hope that both of them come out of all of this okay! You can try feeding mum some higher fat/protein to help her keep her strength up. Even with just one pup, this would have all taken alot out of her. Bits of chicken, eggs, pastas, baby cereal with soy milk. All good things.

With the other pups being malformed, there's a few things that could have gone wrong. A lack of proper nutrition, genetics, stress.. It really makes me wonder how far along she was, and if maybe she went into labor alot earlier than she should have. If she's very young, her body may just not have been "ready" for all of this. If the bruising was that extensive on the other pups, it may have caused internal damage as well. Poor little things...

I am *so* glad to hear you have a good exotic vet! Unfortunately many people come asking in emergency situations because they have Nothing to go on. I'm very glad to see that this is not the case in this situation.
 
It was so frustrating having my usual vet unavailable and having no-one else nearby that would help.... I'll make sure Narnia is getting lots of yummy good food. She was sooking tonight and deperately wanted my attention so I got her out and gave her a cuddle. She sat and bruxed and boggled her little heart out for a couple of minutess then hopped back into her tank and sat over her last baby. I think she was saying "thanks".

I really have no idea what went wrong but not knowing any of her details (conception date, age etc) just made it harder.
She looks to be a good size (She's as big as my biggest girl) and seems really healthy.

This is one of the reasons I could never deliberately breed rats. This is way too stressful for my liking :)
 
Aww, what a sweet moment! I do so love it when it all Clicks and they realize you were doing good. And appreciate it, hehe!

Hopefully all is well now and she and the pup will be okay. I will never understand how people mistake females for males so often. It's not exactly difficult to tell the difference. Boys are so proud of their packages, it's sort of hard to miss. :giggle:
 
Good luck with everything. what a stressful experience for you and for Narnia. Tell her that my gang sends her ratty kisses. :heart: That little baby will get lots of love and TLC.
 
Oh god, what a nightmare, this must be so scary for you... especially with no vet wanting to help. I can't believe they won't even try. :sad3:
I'm so glad Narnia is feeling better. My mom's April had a hard birth but not that bad.
 
Poor Rattakiss!! :grouphug: from all my babies!! Nature has a way of dealing with sick injured babies and sometimes the mom's are too young to cope. It looks like she's finally on the mend. Please keep us posted. I think that pet stores should NOT hire people with out experience!! This horrible birth would have NEVER accured!! Thinking of you. Sharlee.
 
I feel utterly useless this morning. Narnia was not looking after the last little bub, she kept burying it under all the food in her cage. So last night so I took it out and fed the poor little thing, It was yawning and washing its face. I made the decision to give it back to her and she took it back and washed it and tucked it under her but through the night, She's done the same thing though and buried it again and through the night its gotten cold and died.

I feel terrible but I just don't think I could have hand raised a baby rat. I work such long hours at the end of the week and theres no way they would let me bring it to work. I had such I hard time trying to raise baby bunnies when my rabbit rejected them and it only ended in them all dying. I should have at least tried....but its been so cold. Dammit I'm so mad at Narnia!
 
I know it's incredibly frustrating, and in the end I know you know it's not Narnia's fault. It's horrible to just have to sit by and watch it all happening, though, knowing you can't really do much about it. You did try, though, and you can't fault yourself for not being in a position where you can hand feed every 2-3 hours. There may have been something ultimately wrong with the pup, and that's why she continued to reject it. It just wasn't meant to be. I'm so sorry you had to go through all of it, though.
 
Don't be mad at Narnia or yourself. These things happen. If you want to get angry get pissed at the pet store dopes who put boys and girls together. They need a kick in the pants :batbeat:
 

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