URGENT - NEED A VET EXPERIENCED WITH PNEUMONIA!!

Fins us on Amazon
Shop with us on Ebay
Advertise with us
The Rat Shack Forum

Help Support The Rat Shack Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
U

uglycupcake

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2011
Messages
69
Location
Toronto
I need a vet experienced with treating pneumonia. I am located in Durham region in Ontario, and will go anywhere in the GTA.

My rattie has been having pinched in sides for nearly two weeks, laboured breathing and is literally skin and bones. She is still fairly active (for a sick rat) and will eat solid treats and take liquid food. I took her to the vet, and she was diagnosed with pneumonia... and what makes me uncomfortable is the vet said, "or it could be a heart murmur". Apparently it sounds like there is a "bubble" in her lungs?

I'm terrified that she might die, because I was told that if she doesn't respond to her doxy-baytril combo, she COULD administer lasix, but then I'd just be "grabbing at straws" and that it was pretty much pointless and that my rat wasn't considered young anyways (she's almost 2).

I don't think I can look at my rat, who is still active enough to climb and run, and give up on her. It's been two days and four doses later, and I haven't seen any improvement. I really hope she can be saved by a vet with more experience with pneumonia in rats.

I could be completely wrong in thinking this, but wouldn't it be good to administer lasix and flush out the fluid in her lungs if that's what's causing her to have such laboured breathing? Rather than giving antibiotics in hopes that it will clear up on its own?

I could really use advice and any recommendations. Does anyone have suggestions on what I can do to make her more comfortable? My last rat who got pneumonia died with in 4 days of me noticing that there was even anything wrong. I'm so scared it could take a really bad turn at any time.
 
Two day is not long enough for the baytril/doxy to work. Lasix can be a hit or miss thing, as its a diuretic and can dehydrate a sick rat. At this point I would say doxy/baytril, give it til at least 5 days before you will see improvement.

I am sorry you are going through this. Is she still eating, drinking etc well?
 
I've had a few rats with pneumonia and both got better on Baytril and Zithro. But it takes at least a week before you see improvement. Good luck with your sweetie.
 
lilspaz68 said:
Two day is not long enough for the baytril/doxy to work. Lasix can be a hit or miss thing, as its a diuretic and can dehydrate a sick rat. At this point I would say doxy/baytril, give it til at least 5 days before you will see improvement.

I am sorry you are going through this. Is she still eating, drinking etc well?
Click to expand...

I've been trying to keep a close eye on her, and I haven't seen her eat her HT. I have been feeding her ensure. I don't think she's eating her HT, because she won't even take solid treats if they're too big. I try to feed her as many oxbow blocks as she will take though (she thinks they are treats and they're small), but she never finishes it.

I actually had some trouble getting her to take her second dose of meds today, and I'm worried she'll refuse completely tomorrow.
 
Dr Munn (viewtopic.php?f=71&t=326) is the doctor most recomended in the GTA.

When I do not see a rat showing any sign that they are starting to improve within 3 days, then I try a different combo of antibiotics.
If baytril + doxy isn't showing any imporvement, you may want to try Baytril + zithro (10mg to 15 mg per 454.4 g of rat) as suggested by mamarat. She needs antibiotics to make her better.

If you post her weight and the strengths of the meds, someone will be able to check and make sure she is not being underdosed.

If she is struggling to breath because her lungs are full of fluid, then lasix will help to remove some of the fluid ... but it is a balancing act - you do not want her getting dehydrated. (If you do decide to give lasix, get the vet to show you how to check hydration level, how to give sub-Q fluids and purchase the materials to give sub-Q fluids) The lasix will not make her better, it will just buy her time.

If you try the combos of antibiotics and she does not improve, then you test dose with enalapril (0.25 mg/454.4 g, twice a day) or benazepril, to see if there is an underlying heart problem. If she shows improvement, then other heart meds are added. She would likely also stay on an antibiotic.
 
SQ said:
Dr Munn (viewtopic.php?f=71&t=326) is the doctor most recomended in the GTA.

When I do not see a rat showing any sign that they are starting to improve within 3 days, then I try a different combo of antibiotics.
If baytril + doxy isn't showing any imporvement, you may want to try Baytril + zithro (10mg to 15 mg per 454.4 g of rat) as suggested by mamarat. She needs antibiotics to make her better.

If you post her weight and the strengths of the meds, someone will be able to check and make sure she is not being underdosed.

If she is struggling to breath because her lungs are full of fluid, then lasix will help to remove some of the fluid ... but it is a balancing act - you do not want her getting dehydrated. (If you do decide to give lasix, get the vet to show you how to check hydration level, how to give sub-Q fluids and purchase the materials to give sub-Q fluids) The lasix will not make her better, it will just buy her time.

If you try the combos of antibiotics and she does not improve, then you test dose with enalapril (0.25 mg/454.4 g, twice a day) or benazepril, to see if there is an underlying heart problem. If she shows improvement, then other heart meds are added. She would likely also stay on an antibiotic.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the insight. I find that my rat is a little more active today, but her breathing still looks really bad. I don't know if that is a sign of improvement or not, but she hasn't gotten any worse. I also have no idea what dosage the doctor has her on. I was given 100mg of doxy in a banana liquid suspension, and she is supposed to take 0.15ml. With the baytril, there is 100mg injectable suspended in banana liquid.

I haven't been able to weigh her, she won't stay on the scale for long enough. But when she's healthy, she weights about 330g.

I do have a question about giving the meds. It's very difficult to make her take her full dose of doxy, unless I give it in the same syringe as the baytril with a little bit of ensure. Does that make it less effective, with the minerals binding and all? Especially since it's already suspended in something?

Thank you so much for everyone's help and input.
 
Yes, dairy and calicum should not be given within two hours of doxy, as it will reduce the effectiveness of the doxy

The strength of meds is given in mg/ml Without that info, there is no way to double check the doses.
 
My kid maybe has pneumonia too, so I know what ur going through tho my vet only gave me Baytril (wich I see improvement Jade is getting brighter and a bit stronger but still cant breathe) I'm trying to get my vet to give me some doxy so my poor love can breathe again!

I really hope ur love get's better!!
 
Soak the Oxbow in water to make it soggy and soft, and see if she will take that.

Instead of with dairy, try mixing it with some sugar-free, fresh fruit juice or applesauce.

Sadly, it is really critical that you weigh her- as underdosed she will not recover, and with her weight is the only way we can help you dose it correctly. Give her a treat on the scale, or do it when she's tired.
 
You can also mix the meds with a couple of drops of strawberry nesquik, possibly adding a bit of baby cereal to thinken (and possibly a drop of olive oil)

Knowing her weight will not help if you don't know the strength of the meds.

Lab blocks made into mush as previously suggested is a good idea.
Soy infant formula mixed up with baby cereal (the kind you need to add milk to) would also be good, just not within 2 hours of her meds.
 
I just weighed her and she is 280g... I have 100mg capsules of doxy, 10% injectable baytril (which ran out, but I ordered more a week ago), and amoxy 100mg capsules. I could dose her myself, since I'm running out of meds anyways. There's a lot of wastage since she doesn't want to take any of the meds (especially doxy). Does anyone know how I would go about mixing/diluting the meds?
 
Does 10% baytril mean 10mg/ml ?

Personally, if she is improving I would continue giving what the vet perscribed.

I measure out the baytril and put in a tiny dish, I measure out the doxy and add it. (etc for any other meds) Then a put in a couple of drops of strawberry nesquik, a few drops of water, stir and thicken with a tiny bit of baby cereal (Sometimes I also add a couple of drops of olive oil). (ideas from godmother & mamarat)
My rats think it is a treat and will eat it out of the dish or off my finger.
If I have an ill rat unable to eat, then I use a needleless syringe and syringe feed it to them, putting the med mixture into the side of their mouth as if straight down it may go into their lungs.

If you run out and need to mixup meds:

The dose for the doxy is 1/20 of a capsule per Ib so you mix up the contents of one capsule with 2 ml of orasweet (from the drug store), or 2 ml of distilled water, etc Then you would give 0.1 ml of the doxy per Ib of rat, twice a day.
Since she weighs 280g, she would get 0.06 ml of the doxy mixture (280g/454.4g x 0.1ml) twice a day.
(or you could mix up a doxy capsule in 4 ml of liquid and give her 0.12 ml twice a day)
(The dose info above , 5 mg/Ib, is what my vet perscribes for doxy. Some people give half this amount, see http://www.rmca.org/Articles/dchart.htm for info)

Edit: for baytril, we give 10 mg/Ib (in this case it would be 0.1 ml/Ib) but many give less (see http://www.rmca.org/Articles/dchart.htm for info)
At 10 mg/Ib, you would give her 0.06 ml, (280g/454.4g x 0.1ml) orally, twice a day

If antibiotics are helping, she needs to stay on them for at least 6 weeks.
 
Thanks SQ! The baytril is 100mg/ml.

And what brand of baby cereal does everyone use? The one I have is 20% daily intake of calcium per serving =/
 
uglycupcake said:
Thanks SQ! The baytril is 100mg/ml.

And what brand of baby cereal does everyone use? The one I have is 20% daily intake of calcium per serving =/
Click to expand...

All baby cereal is really high in calcium and iron.
 
victoria said:
uglycupcake said:
Thanks SQ! The baytril is 100mg/ml.

And what brand of baby cereal does everyone use? The one I have is 20% daily intake of calcium per serving =/
Click to expand...

All baby cereal is really high in calcium and iron.
Click to expand...

So then I'm assuming that it's a no-no for doxy? I'm really in a pinch. She's not well enough to "eat" her meds and has to be syringe fed. But will only take it with ensure or baby cereal, which are both high in minerals. I've tried apple sauce, chocolate syrup, and strawberry nesquick. I have to go out and buy fruit juice, but I feel that's my only mineral free resort left.

I've looked at the masking meds thread, but it seems that most of the good ideas require for her to eat instead of syringe feeding.

I'm a little concerned that the minerals might make the antibiotics not only ineffective, but allow for resistance against them. Is it worse for her that way, since she probably isn't getting the required dose due to mineral binding?
 
uglycupcake said:
victoria said:
uglycupcake said:
Thanks SQ! The baytril is 100mg/ml.

And what brand of baby cereal does everyone use? The one I have is 20% daily intake of calcium per serving =/
Click to expand...

All baby cereal is really high in calcium and iron.
Click to expand...

So then I'm assuming that it's a no-no for doxy? I'm really in a pinch. She's not well enough to "eat" her meds and has to be syringe fed. But will only take it with ensure or baby cereal, which are both high in minerals. I've tried apple sauce, chocolate syrup, and strawberry nesquick. I have to go out and buy fruit juice, but I feel that's my only mineral free resort left.

I've looked at the masking meds thread, but it seems that most of the good ideas require for her to eat instead of syringe feeding.

I'm a little concerned that the minerals might make the antibiotics not only ineffective, but allow for resistance against them. Is it worse for her that way, since she probably isn't getting the required dose due to mineral binding?
Click to expand...

I've run into the same problem with one of my first rats. He would only eat medication in stuff that was high in calcium, etc, like baby cereal or ensure. My vet (Dr.Munn) said that doxycycline is barely effected by calcium at all, that if I mixed it with straight up milk, it would still be just as effective. And even if calcium did change the effectiveness of the doxy, it'd be better to get SOME meds into her, as opposed to none. Even 20% effectiveness is better than 0%. I'd give the Doxy in whatever she'll happily eat, be it ensure or baby cereal.
 
Nestle rice baby cereal has no calcium
It is likely there are others without calicum as well, but you need to check the labels

Edit: Victoria, I have never heard of probiotics reducing the effectiveness of antibiotics.
(Antibiotics will make probiotics ineffective if given within 2 hours of the antibiotics, but that isn't the isssue here.)
 

Latest posts

Back
Top