Spaying and Neutering Rats...controversial?

[twitch]

I can understand why people are hesitant to do it, but it's frustrating for people to spread the myth that surgery is very very dangerous, because I think it makes people delay on surgeries even for medical problems because "it's so dangerous".

all surgery is dangerous. i've lost smeag and babydoll to surgery. they got through the operation but could not wake up enough and died a few hours later. both operations were needed. for smeag it was to remove a very painful ruptured eye and for babydoll it was to remove a tumor. they were only 14 months old and otherwise in perfect health. and they died. surgery is dangerous.

having said that, stewart, guildenstern, bribery, romar, wagner, chancey, chop suey, magi, spider, violet, nezumi, tasche and serrphim have all had operations for various reasons at various ages ranging from 8 weeks to 25 months old, some even more then once and some in less then steller conditions when they went under the knife and they pulled through. so its good to be aware of the risks, all operations are dangerous. but its not something that should stop you from having an operation done, especially if it is something that if they don't have it, they will die or be in uncontrollable pain.

spaying and neutering are not in the category of if they don't have it they will die from it, but its also typically a less risky operation and if done by an experienced vet should not cause a problem. besides, all of life has risk, you are risking your life when you cross the street, but you look both ways and cross anyway. surgery may not be right for all rats all the time, but if your rats are strong and healthy and you have an experienced vet that knows what they are doing, then a speuter should be no more risk then crossing the street after looking both ways.

 

[SQ]

As others have mentioned, the danger of rats having surgery has drastically decreased since vets started using gas anaesthesia.

If the vet was using injectable anaesthesia, I would only have a rat under go surgery if it was a life or death situation.

 

[Debbie]

ohhhh, I'd like to volunteer to do some stats too! I've had about 80 rats since 2001. I didn't start spaying all my females until just 2 years ago. I have several girls between the ages of 1-2 1/2 years old now, and can definitely share our stats on tumor growth (spay vs none).

Jo, are you saying that you are still seeing PTs in spayed girls? If so, I'm just so bummed to hear this. :sad3: I had SO hoped the spays would ward those off. I've lost too many to PT in the past.

 

[jorats]

spaying and neutering are not in the category of if they don't have it they will die from it

I disagree with this statement... many females die prematurely due to mammary tumours sucking the life out of them. And if neutering was not an option for aggressive males, I can't even think at how many males would be put to sleep.

Jo, are you saying that you are still seeing PTs in spayed girls? If so, I'm just so bummed to hear this. :sad3:

Unfortunately yes... even with those done at a very young age, they still developed tumours.

Some of my stats are shown here. I'm trying to reach Anne, to give her the rest of my results...then she will update which will make the numbers even better.

 

[Moon]

spaying and neutering are not in the category of if they don't have it they will die from it

I disagree with this statement... many females die prematurely due to mammary tumours sucking the life out of them. And if neutering was not an option for aggressive males, I can't even think at how many males would be put to sleep.

Although mammary tumour incidence is greatly decreased, you can't say that a spay gets rid of mammary tumours 100% of time time. And not all males are aggressive when left in tact. For these reasons spays and neuters will always be considered an elective surgery.

Now, if they were effective 100% of the time and all females were guaranteed to get life threatening tumours without the surgery, I think most rat owners would scramble for spays.

 

[jorats]

I should have been more clear, I meant to say that for some rats, a spay and neuter really is a matter of life or death.

 

[RatsForever]

I've only started to spay and neuter my rats as in the past it was too costly (I was a very poor student). But, for the girls I do find a health difference - for example, a lot less tumours. Actually, none of my spayed females have had tumours compared to the females I had in the past without the spay. As for the boys, I notice a huge difference in behaviour - for example, less aggression and it curbs any biting pretty quickly. But there are only two vets in Fredericton I would trust to do the operations which is also important in deciding on the operation or not.

 

[Debbie]

Unfortunately yes... even with those done at a very young age, they still developed tumours.

Sorry Jo, my question was more around Pituitary Tumors...i.e. have you still seen females getting PTs after being spayed young?

Sadly, I have seen several tumors (so far no PTs) with my girls who were spayed young. Adelina is 2 years old now, and we just found a lump on her belly near her groin. Of course, one of the most common tumor spots. I've also had 3 other girls get tumors under their arms, who were spayed young. My beloved Phoebe was spayed when we got her, around 8-10 months. She had hip tumor (which I suspect had already started before her spay) then her peri-urethral tumor. She now has a pea sized tumor growning under her arm that we won't remove....she's just too old/frail now to put her through it.

I have also seen a cystic back tumor, and internal tumors (the really bad kind that take them quickly) in spayed girls too. So I am right there with you on that spays aren't the cure all. But I DO believe that spaying helps DRASTICALLY reduce the hormonally driven tumors. You only have a to have a few "tumor factory" ratties, to know what I mean.

I now have 14 females. They range in age from 14-30 months. So far, 5 of them have had tumors. Only 2 have had more than one tumor. One of which is my only non-spayed girl (Dawnie). Prior to this, ALL my females (I've had 30+) had tumors.

 

[RatsForever]

Oh, Debbie those odds are not comforting. I was hoping spaying my girls would save them from those nasty tumours but maybe not....

 

[Jennicat]

I can understand why people are hesitant to do it, but it's frustrating for people to spread the myth that surgery is very very dangerous, because I think it makes people delay on surgeries even for medical problems because "it's so dangerous".

all surgery is dangerous. i've lost smeag and babydoll to surgery. they got through the operation but could not wake up enough and died a few hours later. both operations were needed. for smeag it was to remove a very painful ruptured eye and for babydoll it was to remove a tumor. they were only 14 months old and otherwise in perfect health. and they died. surgery is dangerous.

I would not classify surgery as "dangerous". Something that is dangerous is likely to cause harm, and with a competent vet that is skilled, surgery is not overly likely to cause harm. It is not without risk, but then again, nothing, from introducing rats to each other, to simply leaving the house with your rats is without some type of risk.

I guess I'm spoiled on that front because we haven't lost any small animal in surgery for years now.

 

[jorats]

Debbie, what I should have said is:

"Unfortunately yes... even with those done at a very young age, they still developed pituitary tumours."

I need to stop rushing through my replies.

 

[Moon]

LOL, ok yes, you are right, for some rats it is a life or death surgery.

Seems like you're being misread all over this thread Jo :giggle:

 

[jorats]

I know! :shower: :giggle:

 

[Debbie]

thanks Jo. I thought that's what you might have meant, but I wanted to be sure. I was just so hoping spaying was the ultimate answer. Of course, I've found that I still see tumors, though much more rarely. But I had hoped beyond hope, it might take care of the PTs.
:sad3:

 

[SQ]

Well .... several months ago I decided that I will no longer adopt out unspayed girls .....

Unspayed = highly likely they will develop mammary tumors (80+ %).
Spayed = very low chance of developing mammary tumors (3% to 4%).

Seems pretty necessary to me ....
(but you need a good vet that uses gas anaesthesia)

I'm a student so I wouldn't be spaying girls if I didn't think it was necessary.

 

[MadCatter]

My vet is experienced with neuters, but I don't believe has done a single spay. Not only would it be extra expensive (paid 105$ for Sgt's Neuter) because of more complex procedure, but I don't think I trust my vet to do it. I have two girls that I'd get spayed if I could justify the costs and risks, but I would have to find a more experienced vet elsewhere, which would also add up to costs because of transport.

 

[lilratsy43]

My vet is experienced with neuters, but I don't believe has done a single spay. Not only would it be extra expensive (paid 105$ for Sgt's Neuter) because of more complex procedure, but I don't think I trust my vet to do it. I have two girls that I'd get spayed if I could justify the costs and risks, but I would have to find a more experienced vet elsewhere, which would also add up to costs because of transport.

That's cheap compared to here!!! Not that I could currently afford it...lol
I have to agree though, if I was not comfortable with my vet then I wouldn't do it either...

 

[Jennicat]

That's part of what is so sad and I wish there was a way to get around that catch 22.

Your vet isn't experienced with spays, so you don't take your rats to him. But because nobody will take their rats to him, he can't become experienced at spaying rats. Our vet is sort of in the same boat, only until recently we haven't taken in enough rats to really be concerned about it.

 

[SQ]

Sometimes a vet inexperienced with rat surgery, can observe another vet doing the surgery and then assist or do it themselves under the observation of the more experienced vet.
Of course this depends upon the vets anmd the situation they are in.

I was extra nervous when 1st neutering and spaying my rats because my vet had little experience with the proceedures on rodents. But I trusted him as a good vet who was aware of his limits and who had done research, etc. I knew he would not do the surgery if he didn't believe that it would be sucessful.

 

[Jennicat]

The only problem with that is that the other, experienced vet in our town charges $400 to do one rat spay. So he also very rarely does rat spays, although they are very very good at them.

I definitely trust our vet, and we haven't lost a small animal in years, even to surgeries which I would consider him less experienced at (he did my guinea pig's bladder stone surgery and managed to save her life when he discovered her organs were basically one giant clumped ball due to adhesions), but would love for him to be able to start spaying teeny rodents.