??s for Anyone who's Had a CHF Rat

[sonnyvincent]

My Dijon has tentatively been DX'd with CHF.

His probably started earlier last month. It was subtle at first but by 9/15 I took him to the vet. She's the best rat vet around here which is not saying much. I convinced her to try Lasix after X-Rays showed large amounts of fluid. He's in the low 400s grams wise. She started him on .09mL BID but there was no improvement after a few days. I came on here and someone said I could go up to double that if needed and to watch for dehydration. I went up to .15mL and there was SOME improvement the next few days after that. His Xrays after a week showed the fluid had gone down some.

I took him in again 2 weeks after, and he had improved enough that the vet could see some inflammation with his heart. She finally put him on enalapril (2.5mg pill mixed with 1mL, .1mL/day). He has shown some improvement, I definitely think enough improvement to know it's helping. But I'm not sure the dose is high enough or whether he should have it two times a day. I'm going to call to talk to her about it.

I have a few questions: The vet said he'd probably be on Lasix as well as Doxy/Baytril for the remainder of his life. Someone on one of the groups questioned whether he should need Lasix that long. He did run out and hasn't shown a decline so I'm thinking he's OK. With the risk of dehydration if he doesn't need it then I'm not sure I'd keep him on it.

Also, I've read there can be benefits from atenolol. Has anyone here ever tried that on a CHF rat? Did it help?

Dijon does mostly seem to be doing well. But he gets VERY worn out when he's upset (after meds) or after he eats. He isn't very active. He does eat and drink. Occasionally he'll still suck in his sides and breathe fast but that is not all the time. I'm just thinking he needs a higher dose and/or two doses a day of the enalapril, or perhaps atenolol added.

IF anyone has had a CHF rat and wants to share your experiences please let me know. I'm also curious how long after DX CHF rats usually have.

 

[jorats]

I've never had a rat on heart meds so hopefully someone will come along and reply. But you could do a search on the forum, there's a lot of info and talk about heart issues and meds for rats.

 

[SQ]

I have had many rats with chf over the last 10+ years.
It is a major health issue with rats, at least in the Maritimes.

If you think a rat has a heart issue, then you test dose for a heart issue with enalapril (0.25 mg/Ib twice a day, to start) or benazepril (0.3 mg/Ib, twice a day).

If the rat improves, a heart problem is assumed and atenolol (1 mg/Ib twice a day, to start) is added.
Then an xray is done and the rat's heart is enlarged, digoxin (0.0025 mg/Ib twice a day, to start) is added to the other medications.
If the heart is not enlarged, then the other two meds are continued. The heart may become enlarged in the future.

Lasix is given if fluid is building up in the lungs. This is usually needed for the rest of the rat's life.
You can check for dehydration by pulling up on the skin on the back of his neck, if it snaps back into place then he is hydrated
otherwise he needs fluids
Have the vet show you how to give sub-Q fluids and sell you everything you will need
This is important in case he becomes unable to take fluids orally
http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=5076

If the issue is a heart problem and the rat does not have a respir infection, it shouldn't need to be on antibiotics
Although it may be a good idea to keep the rat on baytril as a preventative
and it is very important to treat any respir infections that may develop, quickly with antibiotics

Do not use a nebulizer with a rat with heart issues as it makes them much worse

I am not a Dr., just speaking from experience

The heart meds will not cure the problem, just reduce the symptoms so that your rattie has more good quality time.
The heart disease will continue to progress and eventually the meds will no longer be good enough and your rattie will need to be humanely put to sleep by a vet (see reference section on how to ensure this is done properly as most vets do not know how)
Depending on the heart disease and how it is progressing, meds may not work, or may give a few months, or may give 9 more months, etc of good quality time


Good luck

 

[dspch911]

I've had my share of cardiac "heart" rats so maybe I can help a bit. Although none have been officially diagnosed with CHF that I can remember. I'll start with Popper, Axe, and Throttle - these guys were brothers.
Axe: 2/4/14 was put on baytril/doxy for 8 weeks for what we thought was URI, there was no real improvement. (for some reason I cannot find any thread between 4/1/14 & 10/1/14)
10/1/14, had x-ray, which showed enlarged right atrium of the heart and pinched trachea - was put on lasix, doxy/baytril (on one month/off the next/etc)
11/17/14 metacam dose increased, tramadol added
I know he was on doxy/baytril for life along with enalapril - that must be in the missing threads.
He was PTS on 4/7/15
Throttle: 2/4/14 was put on baytril/doxy for 8 weeks for what we thought was URI, there was no real improvement.
8/5/14 He developed two jaw abscesses and put on doxy/baytril, tramadol, metacam, and flagyl.
8/9/14 Biopsy showed massive infection
9/15/14 Jaw mass returned, put back on flagyl.
12/17/14 Jaw mass returned again, More SOB these days like Axe, put back on flagyl
1/13/15 put on baytril/metacam
1/22/15 put back on flagyl
I know he was on doxy/baytril for life along with enalapril - suspected heart issues like his brothers.
He was PTS on 1/31/15
Popper: Started having respiratory issues on 10/24/13, x-ray showed cloudy chest area. He was put on Doxy, Benedryl, Metacam, and Respicalm
11/1/13, changed to Doxy, Respicalm, and lasix twice a day .10
11/4/13, x-ray was clearer now since lasix removed fluid, he had a tumor in his chest pinching his trachea. Lasix now once a day, doxy 2x, AA Hawthorn Plus, Metacam, KHA Dispel, and nebulizer treatments as needed
11/18/14, taken off lasix
3/30/14, nebulizer treatments given more frequently
4/3/14, lasix back to 2x a day
4/14/14, prednisone .13 every 12 hours added
He was PTS on 4/21/14
Sebastian: (he was a hydrocephalus boy) 7/3/14 diagnosed with heart arrhythmia after have audible breathing - enalapril .05 once a day
7/8/14 - rushed to vet, given lasix shot and oxygen with no improvement, was PTS after suffering heart attack
Grumpy: 6/28/14 diagnosed by x-ray with enlarged heart, displaced trachea, one lung lobe consolidated or collapsed, nodules around the heart. He was x-ray after his brother passed without warning - necropsy showed the same on him. He was put on OI Immune, Dispel Status, HH Hawthorne
7/11/14 - Enalapril added .08 1x day
8/5/14 - Lasix added
He was PTS on 8/13/14
Oliver: 11/2013 Went to vet w/possible URI put on baytril, doxy, OI Immune, and Metacam
12/2013 - given first Nebulizer treatment
12/12/13 - diagnosed with heart tumor, taken off doxy & baytril, added theophylline, maitake, KHA dispel stasis in blood
2/8/14 - nebulizer treatments started again
He was PTS on 2/16/14
This is Sonoma's thread, vet thought she had CHF starting, but she was a mess and was PTS not long after getting sick.
http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33275

I did not like the nebulizer treatments (Amikacin, Acetylcysteine, Aminophylline, and saline) I felt they came out in more distress from the stress then when they went in the cage for the treatment.

During play time we let them decide when they wanted to play and what they wanted to do since they would get winded quickly. Also, due to the rapid breathing they lost weight quickly, so we would give them food high in calories - avocado, baby food, baby cereal, ground up oxbow in baby rice cereal and powdered soy formula mixed with ensure, etc.

Hope some of this helps you.

 

[Joanne]

One of my boys, Eddie, has CHF. He is on Benazepril, Lasix and Baytril twice a day, and Prednisone once every other day. He is a nakie, and is obviously cooler than my other rats, so his circulation is not that great. He has an audible heart murmur and a slow heart rate too. But he is still with us!