Respiratory Issues

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silentmagician

Junior Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
76
Location
Netherlands
Hello, I could use some advice about my 1.5 year old male's URI (this is Karel, who I've posted about previously). I know this is a common ailment and I've read some of the resources, but I'd like your thoughts. He didn't have much in the way of symptoms, but I noticed he was slowly becoming less active and I happened to catch him making a whistling noise once or twice. So, he visited the vet on Thursday and she prescribed Baytril, which she wants us to try for a week and then check back with her. The dosage is .25mL of 20mg/mL enrofloxacin twice a day and he weighs .51kg.

However, his breathing is getting worse and I feel like his heart is working harder than normal which has me worried. He still eats and drinks and walks around, but he obviously is not feeling like his usual self. If he doesn't respond to the antibiotics, I'm not confident he'll last until the next vet appointment.

So my questions are:
Is the Baytril dosage sufficient?
Do I need to ask for Doxycycline too? Or is there anything else I need to ask for?
What can I do to help his breathing so the antibiotics have time to work?

Thanks for any suggestions.

UPDATE:
The vet is open Sat. mornings so I was able to call and she prescribed the Doxy. He's getting a painkiller now as well.
 
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Yes, he needs a combination baytril/doxy or doxy/zithro and the course needs to be for a minimum of 4 weeks. They will seem to get better sooner, but it will resurface if you stop sooner than 4 weeks. Have you "ratphoned" him? Put him up to your ear and listened? Its possible he needs lasix to remove fluid if he has pneumonia - just a few days of that should work.
 
Hope the combo helps.
If it doesn't, try baytril + azithromycin (10 mg/Ib, by vet's prescription from a pharmacy), orally, twice a day, for at least 6 weeks

There is a range for baytril dosages. http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/enrofloxacin_baytril.php
The dose you are giving falls within one of the suggested ranges

It is also possible that Karel has a heart problem. If antibiotics do not help, you can test dose for a heart issue
Hope Karel is soon feeling better
 
Ok, I'll keep the heart problem possibility in mind in case he doesn't respond to the antibiotics soon. How would a heart issue be treated? I couldn't hear anything when I "rat phoned" him a few days ago, but the vet didn't like how his lungs sounded with the stethoscope. He is also keeping his head tilted upward; he was having trouble sleeping earlier since he couldn't prop his head at the right angle, but then his squishy buddy came to be his pillow and he is finally getting some rest. Thank you for all the suggestions and ideas, I feel better having some options lined up.
 
Congestive heart failure can cause fluid to build up in the lungs. This can present as exercise intolerance, shortness of breath and a wet cough. As with people, it can be treated with diuretics like Lasix and ACE inhibitors like Enalapril.
Common things being common, he probably has a lung infection. But keep this in the back of your mind in case he doesn't respond to antibiotics. Make sure the vet has a good listen to his heart as well as his lungs.
 
I would get him on lasix asap, it cannot hurt him, but it will help if he's full of fluid pulmonary and/or cardiac related.
 
Needing to keep his head propped up is very serious, he is having major difficulty breathing
If he has fluid in his lungs, and it sounds like he does, then he needs to be on Lasix - this will increase the risk of dehydration
so you will need to make sure he is well hydrated

You can check for dehydration by pulling up on the skin on the back of his neck, if it snaps back into place then he is hydrated
otherwise he needs fluids
Have the vet show you how to give sub-Q fluids and sell you everything you will need
This is important in case he becomes unable to take fluids orally
http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5076

You may also want to feed him blocks soaked in cool water to make mush, organic soy infant formula thickened with organic baby cereal, and other easy to eat healthy food that will help keep him hydrated
 
If he doesn't respond to the current antibiotics or the combo I recommended then you can
test dose for a heart issue with enalapril (0.25 mg/Ib twice a day, to start) or benazepril (0.3 mg/Ib, twice a day).

If the rat improves, a heart problem is assumed and atenolol (1 mg/Ib twice a day, to start) is added.
Then an xray is done and the rat's heart is enlarged, digoxin (0.0025 mg/Ib twice a day, to start) is added to the other medications.
If the heart is not enlarged, then the other two meds are continued. The heart may become enlarged in the future.

You mentioned a concern about his heart which is why I mentioned heart issues at this point
 
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It looks like lasix is the same as furosemide. I'll have to get a prescription which means waiting for the vet to be open. The pain killers seem to be making him more comfortable, he even wanted to come out to the play area yesterday (though I didn't let him run around). Poor guy, looks like we'll have to give the antiobiotics the weekend to start showing results and then I can have another chat with the vet.
 
Thanks for everyone's input. We've been giving the meds for about 20 days now. Somedays he seems a little better, and some days he seems the same. The vet is satisfied it is a respiratory infection, and she is worried he might have some scarring which will prevent him from breathing normally. She told us to continue the meds and keep watching for any change. He has lost a little weight though he still eats. Is it normal to see so little change--neither better nor worse? Also, I've run out of tricks to get him to take the carprofen (he still takes his antibiotics with some coaxing), any ideas?
 
What meds are he on?
I am asking because it sounds like they are not sufficient

Are you able to get baytril, azithromycin and doxy where you are?

I have never heard of carprofen, but what I do is add a couple of drops of strawberry quik, a couple of drops of water and a tiny bit of organic baby cereal to the dose of meds and mix it up ... sometimes I also add a drop of olive oil too. My rats usually think this is a wonderful treat and gobble it down.

Giving him soft foods such as: his blocks made into mush by soaking them in cool water, organic soy infant formula thickened with organic baby cereal, and cooked quinoa may make it easier for him to eat

I hope he is soon feeling much better
 
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He's on doxy and baytril, the carprofen is a painkiller. This is the most stubborn rat I've ever met, he is turning down even the most tasty treats. He was taking it mixed in yogurt for awhile, sometimes honey water, banana, or strawberry mush, and then I've gone through a whole range of different things. Then he didn't like the spoon I was using, but apparently licking it off the finger is better. Haven't tried baby cereal yet, might be worth a shot. Is azithromycin another type of antibiotic?
 
silentmagician said:
Is azithromycin another type of antibiotic?
Click to expand...

Yes it is. It is used for human children
I get it from the pharmacy by prescription from my vet.
It is very effective when given with baytril, and even more effective when you give baytril + doxy + azithromycin as a combination of 3 antibiotics.
The dose for rats for azithromycin is 5 mg/Ib to 15 mg/Ib, orally, twice a day for at least 6 weeks.
My vet prescribes azithromycin 10 mg/Ib, to be given in combo with the other antibiotics, orally, twice a day, for at least 6 weeks if it is helping

Maybe you could try that and see if it helps.
I have rats that will only take meds licked off my finger too :)

Hope he is soon feeling better
 
Well, we had a few weeks of hope when he seemed to be more like his old self, but sadly, Karel passed away. The vet speculates it was actually a lung tumor. Thanks for everyone's help, we gave it our best shot. He will be missed dearly.
 

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