Question About Megacolon

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Cait

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2007
Messages
3,510
Location
Pasadena, CA
Hey all. I was thinking earlier about Nina, and I wondered something.

I know that there is early onset MC and late onset... If you have a litter, and one developes early onset MC, can the others in the litter have a later onset? Or does that mean they just carry it but don't have it? Or is it one way or the other? (Meaning in a litter you'd only get late or early, not a mix.) Just thinking about her littermates right now. :/ All were hoodeds/ high white berkshires.

Does anyone know?

Oh, and what age is considered "late" onset? I know with early onset you start to see signs when they start eating solids, about three weeks old.
 
Thank you Mumsyrat! This is the exact thing I was looking for to take to my vet; I can't believe I forgot about ratguide!

That takes a load off my mind... I wonder, since it's genetic and is linked to a color trait per se (high white) would it have "attached" to the mink coloration in this litter? (Not ALL minks, just this particular one... If I'm saying that so it makes sense...) All of the others were black. I'm guessing no, it was just chance, but I was thinking it so I'll put it out there.

"Late, or delayed, onset megacolon appears to have the same genetic origin as early onset and is seen in the same lines as early onset."

I take it by line they mean breeding line and not an individual litter?
 
Sorry Cait, same litter. If you get through with no incidences of early onset MC then you still have to be aware of late-onset still. Early is more common by far but I have heard of both within one litter.

If you have MC in a litter, there's a chance that some/all of the babies are carriers of MC whether they have high-white markings or not.
 
You can get a mix of early and late onset within the same litter. It's carried on the same genetic marker as the *markings* not the colors. By lines, they do mean through the entire line of rats - from the beginning of MC to the current litter - which would include the current litter.

MC is attached to the High White, not to any particular color. It wouldn't be attached to Mink, or Black, or anything like that. If the Blacks have High White markings, then they're carriers as well. If the Minks have the High White markings, then they're carriers, so on and so forth. It's attached to the white markings and the absence of color within markings. The marked littermates are all possible carriers for the inheritable MC as well. The only "safe" rats within MC litters are Selfs, since there are no markings for them to carry the High White gene on.

*ETA* By "safe" I mean that late onset MC is not a concern, since they have not inherited the MC markings. It is still possible that they'll carry the MC gene since they'll carry a marked gene.

Around 3-6 mo old is when most late onset occurs, though there are cases of 6-10mo olds.
 
Ohhhh. I see. It IS possible then... :/ That makes me sad! Those rats stay in that store for ages, as well, so it's no doubt they will still be there if any of them have MC with late onset.


How much of a lie would it be to tell the same man that gave me Nina that the rest of the litter would go that way and he'd be better off just handing them over to someone who'd be able to take care of it when it occurred? Even if they didn't get it, they'd be out of the breeding pool for sure. This place is seedy... And people who may happen to buy for pets, there's no guarantee they won't breed them or get a mixmatched pair, or have NO clue if they did get MC. I'd like to spare someone that. I can't remember how many there were, maybe 4-5, but I know 2 were selfs. *thinking*

I need a game plan.

Thank you guys for all of this information! You guys are great. :)
 
Even if he handed over the entire litter to you, he could still breed the mother and father, either or both of which may carry MC. Or a brother/sister, or a son/daughter from another litter, or... You see where this is going? he would have to not breed any rats anywhere related to this "line" in order to guarantee that no more rats would be bred with inherited MC. Even then, if he's that seedy, it may just happen again. Blazes, caps, and other unusual markings are very popular. Everyone likes the Pretty Rats. These are also the markings that generally are immediate Red Flags for MC.
 
*sigh* I'm an idealist, it seems. Obviously it wouldn't do any good to swoop in there, demand the rats, and leave and hope it doesn't happen again. It wouldn't matter except to those rats, and the people who may or may not get them. I do know they are not intended for pets; they're clearly feeders. Double persecution.

Mom was in with them, black hooded. They do all their breeding storefront... meaning they breed, have babies, and get sold in the same tanks. I don't think he does anything planned (never has anything besides black hoodeds, PEWs, "common" colors), it just happens, although lately they've been seperating their males and females, which is kind of odd for as cruddy as this place is. Anyway, my point being I don't think he's breeding intentionally for HW markings. Although by leaving males and females together that's just as good as intention, isn't it?

I'm going to take all of this information to him and see what he says... Maybe we can work on his practices... Underneath being a crappy petstore owner he does seem to have some sort of heart. He listened and even felt sorry for Nina when I explained what was happening. I don't know if there's much that can be done, but it never hurts to try...
 
Ah, okay. I wasn't aware that he bred feeders and not pets. Some places will make a try to have more 'pretty' types so they can make a few bucks off of the "pets" vs the feeders.

Hopefully he's willing to listen and is willing to do something about all of this.
 
I'm so angry right now I could cry!!!

I went back in today hoping to find Troy (male worker) only to find the woman there. It turns out SHE owns the store! I asked to check on the rats, and WHAT DO I SEE?!

20 babies, most high whites. Now there is more of a color variety, a few rexes... I wanted to cry. None had MC that I could tell, but there were a few tiny ones that had that "failure to thrive" look they get before they bloat. They were all about 4-5 weeks, NONE of Nina's siblings remained at all. SO many! I asked where she got them, (because obviously I was wrong and any babies they got WERE intentional, though not in house) she told me a reptile breeder and I told her about my experience with Nina and told her I was worried about his stock because he seems to be breeding an awfully high number of high whites.

Response? "Well their life expectancy once they get here is about a week, give or take, so I'm not sure it matters."

Me: "So you're telling me no one comes in here and gets pets?

"If they do I special order them pet rats. If you want pets, I can order them." I know for a FACT she lied; one of my sister's friends bought a pair off of her and made the intention CLEAR that they were pets. You can't tell me that someone won't go to the only pet store in town that carries rats and doesn't buy them for pets!

I told her I didn't want any, just that I was concerned and thought she'd care. I told her if he uses the same stock for his feeders as he does his pets, then she should really pay attention because if I was a customer I'd be pretty pissed if I had paid however much for a rat that was going to die a slow and agonizing death in front of my eyes.

"But they're *pet* rats." It didn't seem to matter that no matter how much I explained that they are in face the VERY same, just the reptile breeder had certain color/fur type/whatever to differenciate in HIS mind what constituted a feeder vs. pet doesn't mean they aren't the exact same animal with the exact same capacity to be a companion animal.

I'm not sure I can bother anymore; this new turn is just horrendous. My will power isn't that good to where I can continue to walk in, look at those poor babies faces and walk back out, KNOWING their fate. I have to honestly say that if I'd hadn't forgotten my wallet in the car, I'd have brought some of those babies home, as wrong as it is. I understand completely now why I've been going to the GOOD pet supply store. And they're only blocks away from each other; how can such evil be so close to a haven and people not REALIZE!!

I'm going to go talk to Troy (who seems to care a ton more than the actual owner does) and ask him to call me if any of the babies get bloated. Make it seem like I'm doing HIM a favor.
 
Lately I seem to stumble onto situations and then I torture myself when there is nothing to do about it. Makes me want to crawl under a rock some days.

I hope I'm wrong and those babies that seemed to be showing the first signs of MC are just really young. Either way its pits because babies that tiny in size would be too young to be away from mom... But they were awfully well developed for being the size of 2 week old pups. :/
 

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