Pic added! Black on top front teeth?

[xio]

I got my rats around 2.5 weeks ago and yesterday noticed that one of them had a black, vertical stripe down each of his front teeth on the top. Any idea what this could be? The entire tooth isn't black just that stripe. His bottom teeth are the proper orange-y color. They aren't very old, still have their soft baby fur and are pretty small. It's been about 2 years since I last had rats and I can't remember if my old guys had teeth like this when they were younger.

He eats fine, drinks fine, no smell and is active.

 

[jorats]

Any chance we can get a pic of it?

 

[xio]

I will try, he's still not completely used to being handled so it might not be possible. I figured it would be hard to say without a pic or seeing in person but figured I'd ask. I'll report back tomorrow with a pic. Hopefully haha

 

[jorats]

You'll need two people for the pic. When you hold the rat, hold him with your two hands on his sides and with your fingers or even thumbs, push up on the lips and the other person takes at the pic real fast. lol

 

[xio]

There! Got a pic. He did not appreciate being held like that.

 

[victoria]

I googled some and found this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2134964. Black teeth seem to be caused by a zinc deficiency. (I can't tell from the abstract if an abnormality in iron metabolism is a cause of the cause.) What are you feeding them? I looked up sources of zinc and it seems meat sources are often better in quantity and quality (easier to absorb) for humans but I don't know if the same is true for rats. Maybe you can go to a health food store and see if they have a liquid or powdered supplement to give them or you can give him some Ensure, which also seems to offer a fair amount of zinc.

 

[jorats]

Great pic. A dead root can cause black teeth. But good to know about zinc deficiency...We should also rule out anything he might have eaten that would cause discolouration?

 

[Scythe]

Could having too MUCH zinc hurt him? I'm just thinking if she laid on foods for him that are heavy in Zinc and watched for improvement to rule it out as well as work through ruling out the others.

 

[victoria]

Could having too MUCH zinc hurt him? I'm just thinking if she laid on foods for him that are heavy in Zinc and watched for improvement to rule it out as well as work through ruling out the others.

From what I read, because zinc is not so easily absorbed, it would be hard to get too much from food sources. It would be possible and much easier to OD with a supplement though. It is however found in protein rich foods, so that may present some problems long term. Oxbow is probably a better block since zinc is easier to absorb from meat sources than vegetable ones. A couple of references suggest oysters as a good source of zinc, something that I think rats really like. You can pick up a can, give your rats a bit as a treat, and freeze the unused ones individually for later. Unless of course you like oysters...

 

[xio]

Really appreciate the responses everyone!

They are on a diet of oxbow regal rat but that only started this past Saturday. I had outdated information (or flat out wrong information) and have changed to oxbow after a couple members in chat told me my food choice sucked (but they were nice ha)

He has only eaten oxbow, kashi go lean cereal, couple of hamster "donuts", Iams dogfood (since removed from his diet), a couple baby carrots, a bit of leftover chicken and a couple vegetable crackers. Nothing I can think of to color his teeth. His buddy has normal teeth.

Should I wait to see if the oxbow fixes it or go ahead and get something to supplement him?

ETA: So another forum I'm on found the same info but a bit more. It's most likely due to the tap water being fluoridated.

I was so worried both his top teeth were infected or dying so I'm very glad it's a deficiency that I can fix.

 

[jorats]

Floride can do that? Scary... But good to know.

 

[AshleyRayeRats]

Is it possible that he had scraped his teeth against a cage that wore off and left a stain on his teeth? Maybe before you got him? One of my rats once had a sort of scuff on her tooth from an old cage that eventually just went away. . . just an alternate opinion.

 

[Joanne]

Floride can do that? Scary... But good to know.

I believe that is mis-information.
Too much fluoride can affect growing teeth. But, it causes white mottling, not black staining. A large excess will cause a weakening of the tooth structure and it will chip and break down easily. Because fluoride in the tap water is (maximum) one part per million, it is impossible to get too much fluoride from drinking water. It would have to come from another source such as toothpaste.
Just my two cents.....

 

[victoria]

Floride can do that? Scary... But good to know.

I believe that is mis-information.
Too much fluoride can affect growing teeth. But, it causes white mottling, not black staining. A large excess will cause a weakening of the tooth structure and it will chip and break down easily. Because fluoride in the tap water is (maximum) one part per million, it is impossible to get too much fluoride from drinking water. It would have to come from another source such as toothpaste.
Just my two cents.....

Flouride binds with zinc and inhibits absorption, that's why xio thinks flouride contributed to the black teeth.

 

[xio]

I've been slacking on the whole feeding my rats toothpaste lately so I'm afraid it couldn't have come from there!

Victoria pointed it out in chat that it was unlikely to have been from the water and that maternal deficiency was more likely. I was just repeating what I read on goosemoose regarding people who have had rats with the same issue.

 

[Joanne]

So then have we figured out what the black staining actually is? Is it intrinsic or extrinsic? Ie Part of the tooth structure or a superficial stain?

 

[Dazzle87]

Floride can do that? Scary... But good to know.

I believe that is mis-information.
Too much fluoride can affect growing teeth. But, it causes white mottling, not black staining. A large excess will cause a weakening of the tooth structure and it will chip and break down easily. Because fluoride in the tap water is (maximum) one part per million, it is impossible to get too much fluoride from drinking water. It would have to come from another source such as toothpaste.
Just my two cents.....

Flouride can cause yellow stains too. Sadly I've had to have cosmetic dentistry because of this.

Flouride also does build up over time.

But I do doubt that it caused the black stain. I'd be more inclined to think mineral deficiency.

 

[KatTheHippie]

Holy cow, if any of my girl's teeth ever turned black like that, I'd have probably died of a panic attack right on the spot! Good to know it's only a mineral deficiency, hopefully you'll be able to get the little guy back into tip-top shape soon.

 

[xio]

Wow. It's been explained a few times what I think is wrong and how fluoride is connected. Maybe I explained it poorly but Victoria said it flat out.

"Other work has also shown that a fluoride intake in rodents comparable
to the total intake by man in fluoridated areas, leads to zinc deficiency
in the testis, liver and kidneys (Krasowska, 1992, 1996)."|

http://sonic.net/kryptox/medicine/pfpc/pfpc5-22-00.txt

I'm not just pulling it out thin air that "fluoride causes black teeth"

As for the maternal deficiency it was in ZINC.

 

[Joanne]

Wow. It's been explained a few times what I think is wrong and how fluoride is connected. Maybe I explained it poorly but Victoria said it flat out.

"Other work has also shown that a fluoride intake in rodents comparable
to the total intake by man in fluoridated areas, leads to zinc deficiency
in the testis, liver and kidneys (Krasowska, 1992, 1996)."|

http://sonic.net/kryptox/medicine/pfpc/pfpc5-22-00.txt

I'm not just pulling it out thin air that "fluoride causes black teeth"

As for the maternal deficiency it was in ZINC.

But I read it and it doesn't say anything about black teeth. So what is the black? Is it a superficial stain from secretions from the gingival sulcus? Or is it intrinsic, part of the tooth as it grows? I really would like to understand...