Oreo's Inguinal Tumor- Open and Infected?

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Oreo gave herself a nice, long groom today before she yanked at a stitch and I put her back in the cone. And she really needed one, she is starting to smell pretty bad. It is NOT an infection smell, it is just a wet fur/ old pee smell, which wouldn't be an issue if she would just let me wipe her down. I am able to clean her a tiny bit every couple of hours with wet washcloths/wet wipes/wet tissues, but never completely, because she starts squirming and protesting and squeaking.

I am keeping her cage pristine, so I don't even see how she is getting this pee all over herself, she is perfectly able to move around and doesn't sit in her pee. Maybe it is an issue with her new urethra opening, I have no idea. :gaah:
 
Have you thought about alternating with Tylenol once you finish the narcotic? It will help cut the pain when the metacam is waning

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Aida said:
Oreo gave herself a nice, long groom today before she yanked at a stitch and I put her back in the cone. And she really needed one, she is starting to smell pretty bad. It is NOT an infection smell, it is just a wet fur/ old pee smell, which wouldn't be an issue if she would just let me wipe her down. I am able to clean her a tiny bit every couple of hours with wet washcloths/wet wipes/wet tissues, but never completely, because she starts squirming and protesting and squeaking.

I am keeping her cage pristine, so I don't even see how she is getting this pee all over herself, she is perfectly able to move around and doesn't sit in her pee. Maybe it is an issue with her new urethra opening, I have no idea. :gaah:
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She may just be laying in her urine or not getting up to pee. I hope its just something simple like that and she'll be just fine once the cone comes off.
 
I would give her .18 cc once a day of the metacam (this is 1 mg/kg).

Its not the strength its the side effects of the narcotics. I usually only use narcotics after the surgery then switch to oral metacam once they are home. Think of Inca and more recently Balera who opened themselves up because they were on high doses of buprenorphine. They get a compulsion to chew and this means they could chew on themselves. Once the bup was taken away they never did it again and were much more relaxed.
 
lilspaz68 said:
I would give her .18 cc once a day of the metacam (this is 1 mg/kg).

Its not the strength its the side effects of the narcotics. I usually only use narcotics after the surgery then switch to oral metacam once they are home. Think of Inca and more recently Balera who opened themselves up because they were on high doses of buprenorphine. They get a compulsion to chew and this means they could chew on themselves. Once the bup was taken away they never did it again and were much more relaxed.
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Well, she is done with the narcotics as of today, so I really hope I'll get similar results as you, with the chewing. :)

And wow, 0.18ml sounds like a lot compared to the 0.04ml I'm supposed to keep giving her. I calculated it, too, using the lowest dose from the rat guide and I got 0.035ml. :(
Which dosing did you use, lilspaz?
"0.2 mg/kg, PO or SQ, once daily. 27
(The above dosage, and frequency, given for three successive days was found to be the most commonly prescribed for home care analgesia of the pet rat, post op.)

or

0.5 mg/kg, PO or SQ, daily. 26

or

0.3 mg/kg to 0.6 mg/kg, PO or SQ, q24hr (may be given in severe respiratory illness if the rat is in discomfort) 29. *Note: do not give if a corticosteroid is already in use.

or

1.0 mg/kg, PO or SQ, daily. 5 17

or

1.0 mg/kg to 2.0 mg/kg, PO or SQ, q24hrs 26 34 35:Analgesic"​


EDIT: Jeez, I'm dumb, sorry I just now noticed that you included all of that information. :scratch:

For how long should I do this large dose? The surgery was on Wensday morning.
 
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Aida said:
Well, she is done with the narcotics as of today, so I really hope I'll get similar results as you, with the chewing. :)

And wow, 0.18ml sounds like a lot compared to the 0.04ml I'm supposed to keep giving her. I calculated it, too, using the lowest dose from the rat guide and I got 0.035ml. :(
Which dosing did you use, lilspaz?
"0.2 mg/kg, PO or SQ, once daily. 27
(The above dosage, and frequency, given for three successive days was found to be the most commonly prescribed for home care analgesia of the pet rat, post op.)

or

0.5 mg/kg, PO or SQ, daily. 26

or

0.3 mg/kg to 0.6 mg/kg, PO or SQ, q24hr (may be given in severe respiratory illness if the rat is in discomfort) 29. *Note: do not give if a corticosteroid is already in use.

or

1.0 mg/kg, PO or SQ, daily. 5 17

or

1.0 mg/kg to 2.0 mg/kg, PO or SQ, q24hrs 26 34 35:Analgesic"​



EDIT: Jeez, I'm dumb, sorry I just now noticed that you included all of that information. :scratch:

For how long should I do this large dose? The surgery was on Wensday morning.
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The .2-.4 range is the OLD range that used to be the norm, but since then they have discovered rats tolerate metacam very well and actually need higher ranges. The labs had been using 1 mg/kg for years before the vets decided to adopt the new ranges but a LOT of vets continue to use the old dosing ranges which are not enough anymore.

At least 2 more days...you need that tissue to heal, because she IS going to pull out those stiches...I usually have stitches removed at 5-6 days so this is when it should be healed enough.

I use the normal range of .5 - 2 mg/kg, post-op my vet always prescribes 1 mg/kg for 3-5 days but I adjust it based on the surgery. Neuters only get .8 mg/kg for about 2 days post-op, more complicated surgeries or the ones where you have a rat tht needs to not pick at the incision I give 1 mg/kg for 2-5 days.
 
lilspaz68 said:
The .2-.4 range is the OLD range that used to be the norm, but since then they have discovered rats tolerate metacam very well and actually need higher ranges. The labs had been using 1 mg/kg for years before the vets decided to adopt the new ranges but a LOT of vets continue to use the old dosing ranges which are not enough anymore.

At least 2 more days...you need that tissue to heal, because she IS going to pull out those stiches...I usually have stitches removed at 5-6 days so this is when it should be healed enough.

I use the normal range of .5 - 2 mg/kg, post-op my vet always prescribes 1 mg/kg for 3-5 days but I adjust it based on the surgery. Neuters only get .8 mg/kg for about 2 days post-op, more complicated surgeries or the ones where you have a rat tht needs to not pick at the incision I give 1 mg/kg for 2-5 days.
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Okay, I'll be giving her more from now on.
Thank you. :)


Oreo is doing better every day, it's really comforting. She's not getting spoon fed anymore because she eats on her own from a dish, and she makes nests in her cage from the fleece I give her to sleep in. She still was eating cardboard when I gave her a box last night, though, but I'm hoping tonight she'll stop doing that.

Last night she also groomed herself nearly completely, that is both legs and her belly and her butt, before she actually started to mess with the stitches. I think she actually got one, but it didn't look like anything happened, so I'm not worrying about that one stitch that may or may not have come out.

Ratatouille is still panicking every time I put them together, I mean panic mode freak out, she'd rather perch awkwardly on top of the water bottle for 20 minutes than even sit on the same level of the CN in opposite corners with Oreo. I have no idea what is wrong with her, because when I juuust brought Oreo home, she wanted to see her very much. :?
I almost think that the cone Oreo has is freaking her out, if that makes any sense!!!
Matilda, at least, is behaving a lot nicer around Oreo, and wanting to cuddle her and groom her and stuff. Last night she started to mess with her incision though. I don't think she did anything but Oreo squeaked a few times so I decided to just put her back.
 
Gah, a second after I cleaned up Oreo, she peed and got herself all nasty again.

Her new urethra is right in the middle and slightly above the stitches/incision, so every time she urinates, it gets ALL over the wound and I imagine that is contributing to her discomfort. This is also impossible to clean up, because I can't scrub the stitches, and the second I try to gently wipe the area around even, she freaks out. I obviously can't bathe a rat with a surgical wound, right....?
 
Aida said:
Gah, a second after I cleaned up Oreo, she peed and got herself all nasty again.

Her new urethra is right in the middle and slightly above the stitches/incision, so every time she urinates, it gets ALL over the wound and I imagine that is contributing to her discomfort. This is also impossible to clean up, because I can't scrub the stitches, and the second I try to gently wipe the area around even, she freaks out. I obviously can't bathe a rat with a surgical wound, right....?
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If she is urinating on her incision its probably burning, with is contributing to her discomfort, poor baby.
 
The only thing I can think that will help us to make sure her urine is diluted. Make sure she drinks extra water. Maybe even put a little sugar in it.

Are the stitches dissolvable? If so, you could cover the incision with vet bond or some other surgical glue. This would create a water seal and keep all moisture out, including urine. If they are removable stitches you won't be able to do this.
 
Sheldon said:
The only thing I can think that will help us to make sure her urine is diluted. Make sure she drinks extra water. Maybe even put a little sugar in it.

Are the stitches dissolvable? If so, you could cover the incision with vet bond or some other surgical glue. This would create a water seal and keep all moisture out, including urine. If they are removable stitches you won't be able to do this.
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No, the stitches are normal stitches and they are due for removal in a little over a week(surgery was wensday, stitches are to be removed 2 weeks after surgery). :(

It is difficult to make her drink water. I did sweeten it, but she isn't touching it much. I have been giving her lots of juicy fruits and watery foods, however.
 
Is petroleum jelly bad for rats to lick? A thin layer of it could act as a moisture barrier and would not hinder suture removal.

Can someone verify if this is safe for ingestion?

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Zinc cream works well too for this, but I wouldn't begin to know if that is okay. I guess if you are keeping the cone on her...

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Also 2 weeks sounds like a really long time. It's only 7-10 days in humans usually and rat skin heals sooo much faster.

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Sheldon said:
Also 2 weeks sounds like a really long time. It's only 7-10 days in humans usually and rat skin heals sooo much faster.

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I've read around here, too, that it is a pretty long time. However, I'm not sure because her incision is a big one, it pretty much extends from leg to leg in her groin(I posted a picture earlier, don't know if you noticed). Also 10days vs 14days, I guess it doesn't seem to far fetched...
Remember it isn't a normal tumor removal incision, they did spay her and remove her urethra, and make a new one.

That leads me to the P jelly or zinc cream(I also don't know if it's safe...), if I used that I'd have to put it right on the incision, which I'm a bit wary of. Also, her new urethra is riiiiiiiiiiight above the stitches, so I don't even know how I'd get that on there, I'd have to put it on her urethra too.
 
As long as you put a thin layer it will not occlude urine flow. You just want to cover the exposed capillary beds and nerve endings. The plastics docs I work with recommend petroleum jelly on some, but not all wounds.

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Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah,
I think Oreo's wound is getting infected. :tantrum:

I can't tell if it smells bad like infection or bad like pee, mostly pee. I got just a very quick look at it, and she definitely pulled out a stitch on the leftmost side, no open wound but just a bit of redness. In the middle of the inicision, I'm pretty sure I saw some white pus-like stuff. As I've been saying this is impossible to clean and she is urinating right on it constantly.

The vet is closed right now, they'll open tomorrow. I'll give them a call first thing in the morning.
My ratty-medicine cabinet currently includes: trimeth/sulfa, metacam, baytril, doxy, prednisolone, and bromo.
Should I dose her with baytril? Is there ANY way I can keep this wound clean? Her urethra is right above the incision, or even part of it, it is hard to tell.
 

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