Ongoing discolored urine - He passed. <3

[violet976]

I've been working with my vet for over a month now since seeing some bright, fresh blood in Merle's urine. His urine test did show blood in the urine and he had an x-ray that showed some inflammation of the bladder or a possible area that could have been a mass. He was put on Baytril (10mg/kg) for 10 days and then re-checked.

The re-check still found no improvement for the blood in the urine and the x-ray still looked about the same. We changed his ab's to Baytril (10mg/kg) and Clavamox (18mg/kg) for another 15 days.

The third re-check showed just the slightest improvement, but not much at all. No x-ray was done. My vet had cautioned me at the start that, given the possible area he was seeing on the x-ray, we might be dealing with either some sort of mass/tumor (in which case it would not be one he would want to try and remove, he said those normally do not turn out well even with surgery) or possibly a chronic cystitis that is not responding to ab's. He said the best we could do with that was to just keep monitoring him, and when I saw either blood in his urine again or him doing smaller drops of pee or him having tenderness when palpitated, we'd simply have to keep throwing abs at him. He also said sometimes dex is used, but he didn't think it helped all that much.

This is another new diagnosis for me, so I'd appreciate any input from those who have dealt with something sounding similar. It's only been a week or two, and I'm already starting to see some smaller piddles that definitely have more of the brownish/red tinge to them. He's acting normal as far as I can tell, and he has been through this all. I also noticed when he had the blood in his pee the first time (bright red), two days later when he went to the vet he was simply peeing big, clear pees at the vets office, even though he still tested for blood in the urine.

 

[dspch911]

I have no knowledge in this, but I'm so sorry your having to go through another crisis so soon after Munster. I hope your rattie doesn't have anything serious and they can figure this out quickly. :heart: :cuddle: Hang in there things have to get better - I think, I hope at least !

 

[violet976]

It's ok. This has actually been happening since before Munster. I had been hoping the strong ab's were going to show more improvement but so far no luck there. He's acting ok, but has also been *very* sneezy and the ab's haven't made even a dent in that either, and I'm talking about sneezes every 10 seconds or so. I'm just at a loss as to what to do to help him.

 

[dspch911]

It's ok. This has actually been happening since before Munster. I had been hoping the strong ab's were going to show more improvement but so far no luck there. He's acting ok, but has also been *very* sneezy and the ab's haven't made even a dent in that either, and I'm talking about sneezes every 10 seconds or so. I'm just at a loss as to what to do to help him.

Poor baby, maybe he has allergies - I don't think abs will work for allergies, but I could be wrong. I'm just basing that on my "human" baby who is allergic to everything outside and usually needs steroids to clear things up. Actually he is no longer a baby at 19, but he's my baby!

 

[jorats]

My mom had a male once with hematuria and the only thing that helped was getting him neutered. Something about the connection to the vas deference and urethra. I'll talk to mamarat, she should remember better than me.
Is Merle neutered?

 

[violet976]

Yup, Merle is already neutered. :/

 

[jorats]

Darn.
When we had hematuria here, it took months and months of clavamox to stop it. One little guy, it stopped with the neuter. But the females, it was harder to handle. It was a nasty bacteria in our colonies affecting the urethra.

 

[violet976]

Honestly, I'm really starting to wonder if I have a very hard to kick respiratory issue as well, as both rats are very sneezy now. My vet hadn't wanted to treat Minca because he said her lungs sounded fine, even though my instinct was against that. He thought perhaps there was an allergy issue or just time of year, but last night with her on the bed I can hear very nasty sounding sneezes - the really loud, *I have a terrible cold* sneezes and from such a teeny rat. Both her and Merle's sneezes now sound the same, so they are both definitely sick with something. Trouble is, Merle has been treated with a good dose of Baytril immediately followed by a good dose of Baytril/Clavamox, and I didn't see even the slightest change in his sneezing. I guess I'm going to have to insist that the vet treat both with a hard dose of ab's, as I'm afraid I'm going to lose both to this untreated. I think I'll video Minca's sneezing so he can see that this isn't simply an allergy issue that will go away.

As for Merle's potty issues, I'm just at a loss. I've seen smaller drops of pee a few days ago that were brownish red, but yesterday saw very large pees that were clear. So, definitely can pee and can pee clear, but seems to intermittently show signs of urinary issues.

 

[jorats]

If your rats are very young, zithromax might be a better choice.

 

[violet976]

Merle is at least middle aged, probably a bit older. Minca is young, but I'd guess young adult by now.

 

[Carol Weekes]

Did his urine show signs of bacterial infection at all? If the vet thought it was a tumor, could he possibly try a fine needle aspiration while the rat is under a bit of anesthetic, to see if cells are cancerous, or can that not be done because of the area? Sometimes, such as with cats, they can get a idiopathic cystitis that has no known cause. Make sure your boy is drinking enough liquids to help clean out the bladder and dilute the urine. Usually baytril is good for a urinary tract infection, but amoxicillin, clavamox, or azithromycin can also help. I hope your little one feels better soon.

 

[violet976]

The only think I remember from the urine test was that there was blood in it. There might have been another issue, so I will call and ask them to tell me the results over the phone since I would like to make sure I have it all straight.

The concerning area on the x-rays wasn't definitive, just an area that he thought *might* be inflammation or a mass (again, if I'm getting it all straight - I was juggling the appointment with him & Munster, who was in critical condition). He said basically that we would throw a good course of ab's at him, and if that didn't work then we might have a tumor or possible chronic cystitis, both of which he said we wouldn't be able to do much about so we didn't look further into confirming the tumor at that point. He was simply given 10 days of baytril, and then we added clavamox to that for another 14 days after that with not much result on the urine test.

 

[jorats]

chronic cystitis can be very painful, it is in humans. Have you noticed any symptoms indicating pain?

 

[violet976]

Not that I can tell, but it's hard when I have such a large cage & freeroaming area with another medium sized cage on the bed as well. Makes it harder to monitor his peeing, which from what I can tell might be an intermittent issue. I've seen him do smaller pees which were more reddish/brown, and then next time I check him he'll do a very large, perfectly clear pee. He's a heavier boy as well, so I check him for plugs and haven't seen anything concerning on the checks, but the only way I can think of to check him for discomfort is to palpitate which he handled fine at the vet.

Are there things you'd recommend doing daily to make sure I don't overlook this issue if it progresses fast, to make sure I stay on top of it as I should? He *looks* ok to me, but I know when Bug couldn't pee he turned very fast and luckily I just had a hunch he wasn't peeing or pooing. This issue is so new to me, I'm just kind of baffled. I can certainly push for more abs, but I'm worried that the first things we tried just didn't make a dent in the urine test (baytril (10mg/kg), then baytril (10mg/kg)/Clavamox (18mg/kg). Both rats are very sneezy now though, so I am planning on bringing both back in and strongly pushing for ab's anyway. My fear is that I have a very resistant strain of a respiratory issue, and I just can't seem to knock that either. The vet has been resistant to treating Minca since he hears nothing in her lungs, but her sneezing is very ongoing now and *very* loud at times. It's beginning to make me feel inadequate in the care I'm providing for them, which is frustrating because it's not for lack of vet care or money. :/

 

[jorats]

for me, I've noticed that squinty eyes and change in behaviour are key indicator for pain, mainly not coming out for out time or picking a corner and zoning out.
I've had rats pee brownish before but it was never anything beyond discoloured pee, mostly cause I couldn't find the owner of that brown pee and it never escalated from there.

 

[mamarat]

Vet also gave Henry vitamin K injections for the bleeding. But in the end the neuter did the job. Although I wonder since yours is neutered maybe try the vitamin k, can't hurt. Good luck with your sweetie.

 

[violet976]

Damn. I knew there was something else I meant to look for when I was in the vitamin section yesterday. Thanks so much for bringing that up. I'll definitely look into that for Merle.

 

[dspch911]

Our new exotic vet put our not sick or currently being medicated boys on these
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=24384
we have to give them a 1/6 of a tablet a day.

I also have these that he said are fine to give them
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=24387
we have to give 1/4 of a tablet, but I'm not giving them together.

He has the 4 boys that are taking antibiotics on another holistic immune formula.

Hope all your ratties are doing well - haven't read many threads lately. In fact, haven't been on too much until today. Kale, parsley, spinach, and brussel sprouts (not sure they can have) are a good source of Vitamin K

 

[jorats]

That's really interesting dspch911. Have you noticed a difference with them?

 

[violet976]

I'd love to know as well, Jo. I heard from a vet tech I know that she recommends that brand of supplements to their clients, but it's the first I've heard of them for use in rats. I'll definitely be looking into the vitamin K as well.