New owner: emergency? Red stuff coming out of the nose

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shaggyandscruffy

Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2012
Messages
13
Location
Ohio
I had just wrote in my introduction post that my two rats did not have any red fluids coming out of their noses.

Well, they didn't earlier. But these two guys just woke up after I wrote that post, and I heard them sneezing harder than normal (they get to live in my bedroom).

Yesterday only one guy was sneezing, but now both of them are. And they both has a TINY amount of red stuff coming out of their nose. One also has a TINY amount leaking from his eyes.

I am sure there are other posts about this, but I was not sure if this is a cold or pnemonia, or what this red stuff is even called, so I wasn't sure what I should look for in the forums.

I think it would be an antibiotic I would need to get for them? (Figures that it is the weekend! :sad3: )

I do have some antibiotics on hand. I have grapefruit seed extract (an all natural antibiotic that I use for myself). I LOVE this stuff, but am not sure if rats can use it?

I also have Duramyacin...

I am so scared and don't know what I should do! We love these guys SO MUCH!

Can someone please tell me what to do, or give me the proper link?

I'm so sorry!
 
I got to talk to the owner who was selling them at the pet shop. She stated that they liked to sleep alot, even when they didn't have this cold.

Is this normal for rats? Because they DO sleep alot.

They are both eating and drinking water.

They don't have any gurgling/wheezy noises: just CONSTANT sneezing. They clean their noses and faces often.

They were five months old when the previous owners got them in February. This makes them 14 months old. She decided to sell them, so they lived at the pet shop for a week. Then I bought them.

That is quite some stress from moving, and then moving again.

When we brought them home, we decided not to get them out a lot so they could get settled in.
 
It's normal for rats to sneeze quite a bit when they change environments but these guys sound like maybe they have a little more than new home sneezes.

Your boys are adults and males are less active than females to begin with. Add to that the fact they are in a tiny cage and have probably been their whole life, it's likely they don't lead an active lifestyle.

What type of bedding are you using?

The red stuff is called porphyrin. It's secreted by the eyes and sometimes drains through the nose. Rats produce it all the time, but in times of illness or stress, they produce more and aren't able to keep up with the grooming required to get rid of it. If they've just woken up, it may be that they just didn't had a chance to wipe it off.

DON'T medicate them yourself. Even if they have an upper respiratory infection, it doesn't sound like it's so severe they need to be treated before Monday. The antibiotic you have is typically used for chickens, goats, cats, dogs, etc. but not for rats. It may be useless for respiratory infections and more importantly, it may be dangerous.

There are a few things you can do until you get them to a vet:

  • If you have a cool mist humidifier, run it near their cage to help them their lungs/nasal passages. If you don't have one, steaming them (bring them into the washroom with a hot shower running) can help, but stop right away if they panic.
    [/*:m:1vn8fstv]
  • Keeping their cage clean to prevent the buildup of ammonia and keeping their cage out of drafts from windows and doors will help as well.
    [/*:m:1vn8fstv]
  • If you use perfumes, air fresheners or scented cleaning products avoid using them anywhere near them. The chemicals aren't good for anyone but some rats are more sensitive than others.
    [/*:m:1vn8fstv]
  • Make sure they are eating and drinking. If you're unsure that they're eating enough, you can offer them soft tasty foods like baby food, baby cereal, Ensure, mashed potatoes, etc.[/*:m:1vn8fstv]

Lastly but most importantly, you have to find a good rat vet in your area. There are some US vet listings on the forum or you can look on Goose Moose Rats Rule! for recommendations, google "exotic vet" and your city and/or look on the AEMV site (Association or Exotic Mammal Veterinarians) to see if they have member vets in your area. Once you have some possibilities, you can google around for reviews of each vet (if there's more than one) to make sure they do treat rats and that they don't have an awful reputation.

Good luck!
 
:gaah:

I have been reading online and have found that most of the antibiotics that work need to be bought from a vet.

I don't know of any verts in NW Ohio that take emergency calls or that are open on a saturday. The vet that I have has seen my dogs and my horse. I am not even sure if he has ver had rat patients!

Is there any type of anitbiotic a person can order online without a perscription that would help my two beauties? I know that I can buy antibiotics like this for my chickens...

OH! I hope I can find something to help them!

At the very least is there something I can give them to boost their immunity? I have poultry "nutri-drench" that people give to day old chicks (chickens) who have been shipped in the mail and to adult birds that are sick.

It is loaded with minerals and nutrients. I can list the ingredients and the amount of each ingredient here if anyone thinks it would help.

They are sneezing so much!

:sad3:
 
I don't think you need to go in on the weekend for an emergency appointment. Maybe you can take a video of them so we can give you a more educated opinion?

Some beddings are toxic to rats and others that aren't can irritate their respiratory tracts - what are you using?

My US geography is weak at best, here are some listings for Ohio vets:

http://www.localvets.com/services/exotic/oh/

http://www.birdexoticpetvets.com/

http://www.daytonsouthvet.com/

http://www.aemv.org/vetlist.cfm (Enter your state, I'm too lazy to copy paste all 17 listings :p)

Edit: Lucky you! Someone has taken the time to compile a list of options: http://exoticpets.about.com/od/healthan ... cs-Vet.htm
 
Thanks Victoria!
I will look at those vet links as soon as I post this!

Sorry it took me so long to reply: My lap top broke on me so all I have now is this ancient computer.

I have such a good relationship with my vet. I will find out if he helps critters like my boys. He has done emergency surgeries for me on dogs I have rescued before in the past. (HE EVEN MAKES HOUSE CALLS during the week). If I cry and whine and he has worked with rats before, I know I can get a spot on monday, but will still check out those other links to!

Just stinks too! I had mice growing up as a kid and never saw anything like this. I knew what to check for at the pet shop and they seemed healthy to me! And then the sneezing started!

At the pet shop, a lady stated they had been on pine bedding. She said they she had just changed it right before I came. She said she didn't know what brand it was, "it was just something [they] had in the back."

It looks like... Oh! That chopped up paper that is pressed together to form HARD pellets. Most of it is dark gray, but there are a few stray pink pieces.

I have pine bedding here as well, but they have never had that since they have been here. It is kept in another room in the house. Maybe that is what they are used to having though?

The room they are in is warm with no drafts, in fact, this is the only room of the house I am currently heating. I try to save energy and only heat this room until it gets way too cold!

We definitely don't have any perfume or things like that. I strongly dislike synthetic man made chemicals! :wink2:

I read on some website, something like "rat.org" or what have you and that person stated that he recommends using rabbit food as the litter. He said it is less dusty than pine and less dusty than the shredded paper. He said it helps with odor control too. I have two bunnies out in my barn, so I have rabbit food if anyone thinks it will help.

I do not have a cool mist vaporizer, but I do have a vicks steam vaporizor "thingy." It lets off warm moisture, but of course that ends up turning cold if I kept it far enough away from them.

Would I just use plain water in it? Water with salt?



OH! And I can make a video tomorrow! I will have to use my moms lap top to upload it though, so it might take me awhile to do so!
 
The cold is fine, it's drafts that can be a bit problematic. As long as it's bearable for us, it's fine for them. I think a roome temperature of over 15ºC or 18ºC is recommended.

I wouldn't use rabbit food as pellets, I think it's Debbie D that recommends it but I've seen rabbit pellets when they get wet - they get mushy and can either break down and become dusty (possible respiratory irritant) or they can get mouldy. Don't use pine or cedar shavings - they are toxic and are known to damage respiratory tracts. There are a lot of different safe bedding options, it's a question or preference and set up. Fleece, pelleted paper (i.e. Yesterday's News, which it sounds like they're on now), newspaper, shredded paper, hemp beddings, Boxo, aspen (make sure it's not dusty - I don't like it but others love it) are a few options. Carefresh and similar products tend to irritate some rats respiratory systems so they're not ideal.

If your regular vet is willing to do the necessary research and leg work, he could very well treat your rats. I prefer to see a specialized vet because they have more experience with the species and are more likely to be up to date on treatment regiments but I understand when you have a relationship with a good vet, it's hard to start over with another. (I don't know what I'll do if I ever get a dog, my vet doesn't treat them!)

There's a good chance they are not sick at all. It may just be that they've irritated their respiratory tracts sniffing all the new smells.

I'm not familiar with a Vick's vaporizer, it sounds like a humidifier. I've heard it explained that the cool mist ones (as opposed to warm mist) are more effective but if all you have is warm mist, it's worth a try. Just water is fine.
 
I think now is when we should start talking about basic rat husbandry. For eg, beddings (which Victoria covered nicely) but I will add in, IF you use paper or wood-based beddings be sure to freeze them for 48 hours before use to kill off any stowaways (lice or mites) that may be hitching a ride to your rats.

What are you feeding them?

How much are they getting out?

As Vic said, rats have sensitive respiratory systems, so their tiny cage will need to be cleaned probably every 3 days or so since its tiny and there are 2 big boys in there. Rats often have new home sneezies as they get used to their new environment. Short sharp sneezes are normal for this, as soon as they sound "wet" or congested or they have an additional symptom like excessive (not just a bit of porphyin when waking up) porphyrin discharge, or lung sounds. You can lift the rat to your ear with 2 hands land place their side (where their lungs are) to your ear and listen. Any crackles, gurgles, wheezes are a sign they will need your vet for antibiotics for a respiratory infection. New home sneezes are watched carefully but usually only last about a week. Any strong smelling scents should not be near the cage/in the room if possible.

What are you feeding right now?

I assume you have a water bottle for them or do you use a dish of water?

How often are they getting out?
 
Food: they are eating the same brand of food that the pet store was giving them. I don't think it has a name, but it came out of a dispenser and had a specific number that they wrote down so they knew how much per pound it was. Before I even saw the rats for sale there was a lady working her butt off---> bringing out bags of food and refilling all of the dispensers. Once I decided to buy them, I asked what they were eating and they showed me the right number/dispenser. I bought the same kind because I didn't want to switch their diet on top of a move.

Time out of cage: anytime we noticed they are awake, we like to open the cage door and talk to them gently. *If* they show us that they want out of the cage, we just put our arm up and left them walk out and onto us on their own. We have only did theis a few times though because I let my son know that they ened to get settled in.

Bedding: I will make sure not to use the pine bedding I use for my chickens for them, I will try to find the pelleted paper bedding to use with them. That way they are staying with the same type of bedding that I brought them home in.

As for water, they have a glass non-chewable water bottle.

QUESTION:

1) I would like to give them some floor time in the house. I would vaccum first to make sure all dust/fall leaves, dirt, etc is cleaned up first... But do you think I should wait until their seezing settles down a bit first?

2) I have been researching feed recipes online. After much time, I found a feed mix that I really like but before I go and buy the ingrediants I will post a list of the ingrediants here in a different topic to have them approved first!
 
I think it'd be fine to let them out on the floor as long as it's a rat proof area (no cords to chew, nowhere for them to go behind and get stuck (i.e. fridge, washing machine, bookcase, hole in the wall)) and they're not so scared of you you won't be able to put them back in the cage easily. The bathroom or a couch, a table or a bed covered in an old blanket are good places to let them out at the beginning.

Here's some good diet info for you:

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=8675
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=12402
 

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